32-bit or 64-bit

Discussion in 'Windows 7 Installation' started by SolidusRegime, Feb 11, 2009.

  1. SolidusRegime

    SolidusRegime New Member

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    I am not exactly sure what system to use.

    Here are my computers specifications:

    - Intel Core 2 Quad 8200 2.33GHz Processor
    - ATi Radeon HD4870 512MB
    - 4GB DDR2 800MHz RAM
    - 2x Seagate 500GB SATA3 HDD

    I mainly use my computer for listening to music with iTunes, Visual Studio progamming, basic office tasks (Word, Excel, Powerpoint, etc) and I play World Of Warcraft.

    I am looking at upgrading to 8GB of RAM if I end up using the 64-bit system, but will all my tasks be compatible with this architechture?

    Thanks in advance.
     
  2. Kyle

    Kyle New Member

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    Use the 64-Bit.
    Your computer can obviously handle it, and unless you're using non-commercial programs you shouldn't have any problems.
     
  3. Radenight

    Radenight New Member

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    I agree with Kyle here, use the 64 bit version.. Your comp can more than handle it and in the end you'll have a much faster computer than if you'd went with the 32 bit version.. Also these days there are very few apps/games that won't work with 64 bit (even if it takes some tweaking).. I truly believe that after Windows 7 there won't be anymore 32 bit versions of Windows made.. 64 bit is here to stay and wether or not people like it, it IS going to become standard very soon.. ;)
     
  4. SolidusRegime

    SolidusRegime New Member

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    I have installed the 64-bit release of Windows 7, but I have noticed that my 32-bit release of Vista Ultimate is running quicker.

    I have not installed my HD4870's drivers yet, but I noticed that Windows 7 already had a driver installed and changed to the correct resolution. I will just download ATI Catalayst Control Centre tonight and install that to see if the graphical side of things speeds up.

    I have only really noticed the graphical lag, which could be because of the video drivers.

    Do 32-bit applications run at a decent speed on a 64-bit architecture system?
     
  5. Radenight

    Radenight New Member

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    I'd recommend installing the latest Windows 7 Beta Driver package from ATI.. Available here:

    AMD Customer Care

    Yes I know it's a beta driver but I've been using it on Builds 7000 and 7022 and have had no problems at all with it... so I'd try that one first.. if that doesn't work for you or you'd rather not use Beta drivers than I'd suggest using the most recent Vista Catalyst drivers.. which currently is version 9.1 available here:

    Drivers & Tools | GAME.AMD.COM

    Those should also work very well for you.. And yes you will notice quite a good difference in your gpu's performance once you've installed either one of these drivers... ;)

    As for 32 bit apps running decent on a 64 bit version of an OS.. yes in my experience MOST do work fine on 64 bit OS's.. that being said, there are exceptions but that's to be expected.. ;) You have to keep in mind though that installing a 32 bit app on a 64 bit OS isn't going to increase the performance of that app.. ;)
     
  6. Kyle

    Kyle New Member

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    Actually, I've seen tests done on off the shelf, non-optimized systems stating that most 32-Bit programs run FASTER on a 64-Bit OS by up to 25%.
     
  7. kevin from Chi-town

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    The question still hangs...

    which would you rather install at this point on an Athlon 64 X2...the 7000 64 bit build or the newer 7022 32 bit build?
     
  8. SolidusRegime

    SolidusRegime New Member

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    I am now running Windows 7 64-bit and I am liking it a lot. Thanks for the drivers, I couldn't find the Beta ones, so I just used the latest Vista 64-bit drivers on the AMD/ATI website.

    I just want to thank the guys who helped give me some reassurance on which version to use. I knew my hardware would be compatible, but software wise, I was not sure if everything would work.

    If I have any more problems, I will post here again for some more help.
     
  9. jimbo45

    jimbo45 New Member

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    This is a highly complex situation which needs internal knowlege of Operating System internals to answer satisfactorily.
    Running a 32 bit application on a 64 bit system can conversly run slower -- it's not always a given however.

    Remember a 64 Bit CPU unless it can be switched into working in 32 Bit mode has an instruction fetch 2X (approx) to the 32 bit one so the instruction fetch will take longer even though you are only going to use the 32 Bit instruction.
    The instruction now has to be decoded and executed -- this will sometimes take longer for a 32 bit application running on a 64 bit OS as you need 2 X instruction fetches and 4X the decode time. (Maths are complex but there's info on the web over OS internals if you are interested).

    The next problem a 32 bit application has on running on a 64 Bit OS is Memory address translation. The OS can use a much larger address than the 32 Bit application can handle so there are complex translation algorithms in mapping the 32 Bit memory to the 64 bit address space (even when the Real RAM is < 4GB). The OS divides chunks of memory into a Bank and relative address -- rather like a Telephone Prefix (City) and then Number. You can have duplicate numbers but not in the same city.

    If you switch the CPU dynamically to 32 Bit mode (can be done on some systems such as the IBM mainframes where you had a special word in memory (a 64 Bit Word) called PSW (program status word) which contained the current CPU insruction, it's memory address and a Bit (Bit 16 if my memory is correct) which could be set to 0 or 1 . This switched the CPU into "Normal" or "Extended addressing". (For more info Google IBM MVS/390 and IBM MVS/ESA).

    Dynamic Switching of course involves more overhead and needs some very very fast expensive hardware not available with the cheaper Intel CPU's.

    Running Natively in 32 Bit mode avoids these problems and hence natively written 32 bit code can often run faster.
    The Address mode here is much simpler - linear address space from 0 ==>4GB.

    Whilst most applications are 32 Bit there isn't a huge advantage CURRENTLY in running a 64 bit OS. Even if you have 8GB youwould be better off still running a 32 Bit OS with a number of 32 bit OS Virtual machines.

    Once decent 64 bit applications start appearing then it makes sense to use a 64 Bit OS.

    I would tend to stay with the 32 bit OS initially and upgrade to 64 bit as more drivers and genuine 64 bit applications appear.

    For Mainstream applications Photoshop CS4 is mostly (but not completely) 64 Bit.

    Some games (I'm not a gamer but I do know these are usually fairly intensive applications) might go 64 bit soon as these are often larger applications needing more memory address space.

    So by all means try the 64 Bit version but currently for "real every day boring work type apps" stick to the 32 bit OS.
    For Home testing / leading edge etc etc load the 64 Bit version.

    All future predictions in computing tend to be just a guess but the time to start switching to 64 Bit OS'es IMO would be around the time the first Service pack for W7 appears (W7 SP1) probably about 1 year from now.

    Cheers
    jimbo
     
  10. Radenight

    Radenight New Member

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    Sorry about that, I did kinda veer away from the initial question there... my bad.. My answer to that would be go with build 7022 if you can.. I have it running on my main pc right now which has an AMD Athlon 64 X2 (2.8GHZ) and the new build works VERY well on it.. better than build 7000 did.. ;)
     
  11. jimbo45

    jimbo45 New Member

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    Hi Radenight
    Build 7022 so far to me looks almost as good as a Final -- even the Visual Studio 2008 and .NET stuff seems to work.

    I can't imagine how much more development is left.

    Kyle has a later build -- be interesting to see how much has changed from 7022.
    I'd go for this 7022 build currently rather than even the 7000 BETA 64 Bi version.

    the 32 Bit 7022 just plays perfect on my 4GB laptop.

    I'd bet that Microsoft will have a retail version available before the Beta runs out in Aug.

    Even the error I had with Networking Virtual machines has gone (Overlap I/O on vmnet0/8 (Bridged / NAT). Device vmnet0/8 will start disconnected.

    Note you have to go into the registry to suppress the __vmware_user__ that you see at logoin --same method as with build 7000.
    Same keys work for activation as fgor the 7000 build.

    Enjoy.

    Cheers
    jimbo
     
    #11 jimbo45, Feb 12, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 12, 2009
  12. Kyle

    Kyle New Member

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    I don't have any later builds. Usually, I get the same builds that are released to the public just earlier than most. Other than that, I do get some internal/daily builds, but they're hard to come by.
     
  13. CryptoFreak

    CryptoFreak New Member

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    How can that be true when 32 bit apps run in an emulation layer build into windows Vista and windows 7?

    64-bit will only benefit you if your using data intesive applications and more than 3 gb ram. Examples of data intensive applications are Maya, Lightwave, 3ds max, XSI and rendering software. If none of your applications are 64-bit then there really isn't a reason for you to switch to 64-bit. iTunes, Ms office and world of warcraft would not benefit from a 64-bit install. Visual studio...depends on which version. If it is 2005 then 64-bit wont help you much, but if it is 2008 then a 64-bit processor will help you out. If you are planning on upgrading to 8 gb ram then you have to use a 64-bit OS because windows 32-bit cannot see more than 3.5 gb ram. Also keep in mind NO 32-bit applications will run faster in a 64-bit operating system. They will run at their normal 32-bit speed as if they were on a computer with a 32-bit processor and in some cases they might run slower on a 64-bit OS because Windows 64-bit EMULATES 32-bit in software with something called wow64(windows on windows). Some programs will not run in a 64-bit OS. For example I have a program called Avid Xpress 5.3 or so and it will not even install on my Windows XP 64-bit because that program is designed for 32-bit operating systems. Write down a list of all your applications and google their compatibility with a 64-bit OS or download 64-bit versions if they are available.
     
    #13 CryptoFreak, Feb 14, 2009
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2009

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