A new computer

Discussion in 'Windows 7 Hardware' started by slovenia7, Nov 25, 2012.

  1. slovenia7

    slovenia7 New Member

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    I want to build a computer and i have made a lot of research but i need a second oppinion.
    System spec:
    -graphic card:MSI GeForce GT 630
    -cpu cooler: Akasa AK-CC4007EP01 Nero 3
    -motherboard:Asus P8H61-M LX R2.0
    -computer case:Aerocool Strike-X ONE
    -power supply:LC Power Silent Power LC600H 600 W
    -CPU:Intel Pentium G860 3 GHz, 1155
    -RAM: Crucial DDR3 4 GB 1333 MHz (CT51264BA1339)

    please tell me if this will work?

    Thank you!
     
  2. Digerati

    Digerati Fantastic Member
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    A couple of comments.

    1. Almost all motherboard makers maintain QVLs - qualified vendors lists - for RAM and CPUs that are compatible with their boards. Yours are here. You should buy a CPU from the list (and yours is on there), but there are too many RAM makers and models for board makers to test them all so you need to buy RAM with the same specs as RAM that is listed.

      Note that motherboard supports "Dual Channel Memory architecture". That is a great performance enhancement feature BUT it only is enabled when you install your RAM in pairs. This means you need to buy 2 sticks of RAM, not one. I urge you to buy 2 x 4Gb for a total of 8 Gb (8Gb is the "sweet spot" for Windows 7/8).

    2. The use of an aftermarket cooler on Intel (or AMD) CPUs that come packaged with an OEM cooler voids the warranty! The good news is, because Intel (or AMD) don't want to replace any CPU because of poor cooler performance, the OEM coolers are more than adequate to provide the necessary cooling - even with mild to moderate overclocking.

      If the warranty is not a concern for you, and for many enthusiasts, it is not, then no problem. But it is something everyone should be aware of. Note I am just the messenger here. This IS stated in the CPU warranty booklets that come with each CPU, or can be viewed online at Intel and AMD.

    3. One of the most critical components of any high-speed digital device is the power supply. It is essential to ensure you are suppling good, clean stable power. You need to get a good PSU from a reliable maker (I like Antec and Corsairs) that is 80 PLUS certified to ensure a quality supply with linear efficiency.

    4. I don't see an operating system listed. A common mistake is some users assume they can use their old Windows license on a new computer. Understand only a "boxed" full Retail license can be transferred to a new computer (or upgraded motherboard). It is illegal to use an OEM license that came with or was purchased for one computer on another computer. A disk “branded” with a computer maker’s brand name, or is labeled with “OEM/System Builder”, “Upgrade”, “Academic Edition”, or "For Distribution with a new PC only", is not transferable to a new PC (or upgraded motherboard) under any circumstances. These OEM licenses are inextricably tied to the "original equipment". So if that is the case, I recommend 64-bit Windows 7 or one of the many free Linux alternatives. Just ensure it is 64-bit with 8Gb of RAM. Note I am just the messenger here too. This is all in the EULAs we agree to abide by when we first use our OEM software.
     
  3. slovenia7

    slovenia7 New Member

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    First thank you for the reply.

    I will be buying a new Windows 7 64-bit professional.I will be buying a 2x4 gb of RAM.One question:Are you saying that i need a better power suply? and if so please tell me what you see most fit for this system.(The thing is i was thinking that this is an overkill power suply)Another thing i was looking for 2 tipes of cpu(Intel Pentium G860 3 GHz) between (Intel Core i3 2120 3,3 GHz )but i em on a tigh buget shoud i save some money on a slower graphic card and buy core i3 or not?

    I found a new compatble RAM whith my motherboard Kingston DDR3 4 GB 1333 MHz (KVR1333D3N9/4G) i will be buying 2 of these.
    And can i overclock both of these?

    The mother board has an PCIe 2.0 x16.Can i install a GF GT 630, 2 GB, PCI-E 2.0 asus?

    Thank you soo much this has been a big help for me and this is my first computer build.I have been watching linustechtips and NCIX videos and many other computer tutorials on youtube.

    Big thanks again!
     
    #3 slovenia7, Nov 26, 2012
    Last edited: Nov 26, 2012
  4. Digerati

    Digerati Fantastic Member
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    Really no such thing - at least in terms of causing harm. A computer will only draw from the supply what it needs, not what the supply is capable of. 600W to 650W is fine but below is canned text on sizing and selecting PSUs.

    If I had to choose between a better graphics card or a better CPU, I would get the better graphics solution. Today's computing tasks are very graphics oriented. The more capable the graphics solution, the quicker it can handle more tasks - and it takes little CPU horsepower to hand off tasks.

    Yes, you can install that GT 630.

    I am not into overclocking. Sadly, too many have failed to do their homework and understand how overclocking affects their systems, heat generation, or the perils and consequences of overclocking.

    I recommend, once you have made your selections, you download the manuals for your case, PSU, motherboard and graphics card and read them to learn their recommended installation procedures. Pay special attention to the placement of standoffs in the case, and ESD precautions.

    ***

    Use the eXtreme PSU Calculator Lite to determine your minimum and recommended power supply unit (PSU) requirements. Plan ahead and plug in all the hardware you think you might have in 2 or 3 years (extra drives, bigger or 2nd video card, more RAM, etc.). Be sure to read and heed the notes at the bottom of the calculator page. I recommend setting Capacitor Aging to 10% and both TDP and system load to 100%. These steps ensure the supply has adequate head room for stress free (and perhaps quieter) operation, as well as future hardware demands. Research your video card and pay particular attention to the power supply requirements for your card listed on your video card maker's website. If not listed, check a comparable card (same graphics engine and RAM) from a different maker. The key specifications, in order of importance are:
    1. Current (amperage or amps) on the +12V rail,
    2. Efficiency,
    3. Total wattage.
    Don’t try to save a few dollars by getting a cheap supply! Digital electronics, including CPUs, RAM, and today's advanced graphics cards, need clean, stable power. A good, well chosen supply will provide years of service and upgrade wiggle room. Look for power supply brands listed under the "Reputable" column of PC Mech's PSU Reference List. Another excellent read is Tom’s Hardware, Who’s Who In Power supplies: Brands, Labels, And OEMs. Note that some case retailers “toss in” a generic or inadequate PSU just to make the case sale. Be prepared to “toss out” that supply for a good one with sufficient power.

    PSUs are inherently inefficient. Most PSUs have an efficiency rating of around 70%. This means for every 100 watts of power a PSU draws from the wall, only 70 watts is delivered to the motherboard, with the rest wasted in the form of heat. The best supplies are 85 to 90% efficient, and as expected, cost more. A quality supply with an efficiency rating equal to or greater than 80% requires a better design using higher quality (tighter tolerances) components. To ensure a quality, efficient PSU, select one that is 80 PLUS certified and is EnergyStar Compliant. 80 PLUS certified PSUs are required to have fairly linear efficiencies. This is important to ensure the PSU is running at or near peak efficiency regardless the load or power demands. Non-linear PSUs typically are most efficient when the load is in a narrow range between 70 and 90% of the PSU’s capacity and the efficiency may drop dramatically above and below those amounts.

    Too big of a PSU hurts nothing but your budget. Your computer will draw from the PSU only what it needs, not what the PSU is capable of delivering. If a computer needs 300 watts it will draw 300 watts regardless if the PSU is a 400W, 650W, or 1000W PSU. In turn, the PSU, regardless its size, will draw from the wall only what it needs to support the computer. In this example, it will draw 300 watts, plus another 45 – 90 watts, depending on the PSU’s inefficiency.

    As noted, the eXtreme Calculator determines minimum and recommended requirements. If the calculator (with the changes I suggested) recommends a 400 watt minimum, a quality 400W supply will serve you just fine. However, a quality 550W – 600W supply will have, among other things, larger heat sinks to dissipate potentially more heat. It might have a larger fan too. The 400W supply will run most of the time closer to capacity, while the larger supply will be loafing along, rarely breaking a sweat. To help the smaller heat sinks get rid of the wasted 80 watts (20% of 400) of heat, the fan in the 400W supply may need to run full speed, while the fan in the larger supply, with bigger sinks just loafs along too – but in near silence. Also, it is typical for manufacturers to use higher quality parts, design, and manufacturing techniques in their higher power supplies.

    Note: Capacitor Aging. All electronics “age” over time. Electrons flowing through components bang around and create friction and heat causing wear and tear, altering the electrical characteristics of the device. Over time, this weakens the device resulting in eventual failure. Power supplies have always suffered profoundly from aging effects resulting in a loss of capacity. In a large part, this is due to capacitor aging though in recent years, capacitor technologies have improved in that area. The best PSUs use the best (and most expensive) capacitors which suffer less from aging effects than older capacitor types. If planning on buying a new, high-end PSU, setting capacitor aging to 10% may result in a more realistic recommendation. However, headroom “buffer” will be significantly reduced. You can expect your PSU to last 5 years or longer. Since it is better to buy too big rather than too small, and since it is hard to predict what your power requirements will be in 3 years, using 30% for Capacitor Aging ensures you have enough headroom for virtually any upgrade.

    Don't forget to budget for a good UPS with AVR (automatic voltage regulation). Surge and spike protectors are inadequate and little more than fancy, expensive extension cords. ​
     
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  5. slovenia7

    slovenia7 New Member

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    I t is listed on asus website that the max power Consumption is 75W, it says no additional PCIe power required.Also my retailer site it say that my minimum power supply for this graphica card is 400w.

    I will be going whit the GT 630 just because it has more ram(1gb) for 3 evros of difference.(2 dolars)

    Sorry if i confused you i was thinking to ask if i can overclock my cpu not my ram?(Sorry for my english obviously not my original language)

    I also want to know if my motherboard will fit in a case because i will be buying a different one (PRO-923B - Red Captor)i know it support mATX but i will be doing some more research.

    Thank you again !
     
  6. Drew

    Drew Banned

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    Slov,

    Sorry my fingers don't know how to write long notes. I can talk a lot but... Anyway all jokes aside, I have just 2 things to mention:
    1. If you are going to go Dual-Core, not Quad, I would recommend a recently released i3 Intel CPU instead.
    2. At this point in time, if you are building a brand new machine put Windows 8 in it, not 7. & is excellent but, in both Features & technologies, 8 is better.

    If you do (wisely) go w/ Windows 8 it needs a Hyper-V capable CPU to virtualize.

    Cheers,
    Drew
    new_windows_logo1.
     
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  7. slovenia7

    slovenia7 New Member

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    I know windows 8 will be better for future technologies but i em used to windows 7 and i hate the mobile expirience on windows 8
    You have to remember that i em on a tight buget.

    Thank you !
     
  8. Digerati

    Digerati Fantastic Member
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    You still need to be legal with a proper Windows license. That said, there are some outstanding deals on new Windows 8 licenses right now. Or if the budget is really tight, I recommend going with one of the many fully capable and free versions of Linux.

    While you are used to W7, it does not take long to get used to W8. And the reality is, users don't spend much time dealing with the operating system. Instead, users are using their browsers, email programs, word processors, music players, etc. And when using those programs, Windows (and the desktop) move to the background.

    In terms of watts, the power in watts is surely important, but it is the current on the +12V rail that matters more when it comes to supporting graphics cards and the quality of power is important to your whole computer. By quality, I mean stability, very low ripple, and a linear efficiency. The PSU you selected is NOT 80 Plus certified. Therefore, it most likely has a non-linear efficiency which means it only produces an efficient output at 1 load value and not across a wide range of loads, as typically encountered with a computer performing various tasks.

    I would MUCH rather have a 500W Corsair than a 600W off-brand. Cutting corners in PSU quality is NOT where you want to conserve your budget dollars.

    Let me put it this way - would you buy a new Porsche and fill it up with no-name gas at the corner Tobacco Hut? You might but would you expect it run properly with that unknown quality, perhaps watered down gas? A car motor can "miss" a beat and keep going. High speed digital electronics cannot. Cheap PSUs are a common cause of sudden shutdowns, freezes, and reboots.

    Yes, a µATX motherboard will fit inside any ATX full, mid, or mini, or µATX case. You just cannot put a full ATX board in a smaller case, obviously.

    That's the beauty of canned texts - I only have to write them once, then tweak them for the occasion. ;)
     
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  9. Mike

    Mike Windows Forum Admin
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    You might want to blow $50-$100 on a CyberPower UPS. I know it sounds sinister, as it has no utilitarian purpose other than to sit there. Consider it an existential coverage on your existing investment. I've had two in operation and I'm at the point of using one to protect my television electronics. They will take power drops and surges and not just cover complete outages. Basically, the point is to provide a clean source of power going into the outputs. When I talk about "clean electricity", I'm talking about the power not fluctuating slightly damaging possible components. A short loss or burst of power over your lines during a storm can severely damage the equipment plugged into it. While shock protectors/power strips are meant to prevent this, they can not boost the power level back to normal for the few seconds needed, only stop a overpower. (Unless you buy one of those 5 second UPS power strips). I would say this has probably saved my power supply an uncountable number of times, as during nearly every storm (including Hurricane Sandy), power was lost merely for a few minutes, but the electricity coming into the room was fluctuating like crazy. A good UPS can detect this as it is taking place and modify the output to compensate. This could put years on your equipment. I've now been using the same board, the same PSU, and the same memory modules for years. While there is no way to "prove" it, I'll tell you I've gotten around a dozen power drops and/or surges every 6 months. The UPS kicks in for a few seconds and saves the PSU from a possible overload or underload situation. In the end, this does have the real potential to protect the capacitors on your board.
     
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  10. Digerati

    Digerati Fantastic Member
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    I agree 100%. As I noted at the end of my PSU canned text above, get a "good" UPS with AVR. And for the record, I live in Tornado Alley in Nebraska. And while full power outages are not uncommon, power "fluctuations" are common and as Mike noted, these anomalies can put undue stress on the regulation circuits of your power supplies and other connected devices.

    Also note that power fluctuations can, and often due originate within the house and have nothing to do with anomalies coming down the "grid". Any high wattage appliance can introduce destructive spikes and surges (followed by dips and sags) down the line. These include microwave ovens, toasters, refrigerators, water coolers, laser printers, coffee pots, and $15 hair dryers. Note that "whole house" surge and spike protectors do NOTHING for anomalies originating from inside the house.

    I do caution however, to "invest" in a "good" supply. Like PSUs, there are many cheap, generic UPS out there that will NOT protect you. I have not seen any $50 UPS I would trust for my stuff. The problem with a cheap UPS is not the power, but the "response time". The ATX Form Factor standard requires all PSUs to "hold" voltages for 19ms (milliseconds) during abnormal power events. That's .019 second! Not very long. A "good" UPS can react easily within that time frame. A cheap UPS may not.

    You don't have to spend $400 on a good UPS (though you easily can) but $100 - $200 (depending on size) is easily justified in my book.

    For the record, I have a 1500VA APC UPS that protects my i7 computer, all my networking gear, and two 22" monitors. I also have another 1500VA UPS on my Home Theater system to protect my big screen TV, my cable converter/DVR, BluRay player, and my Onkyo amp.

    The only downside is UPS batteries need to be replaced about every 3 years. Fortunately, that is easy to do.
     
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  11. slovenia7

    slovenia7 New Member

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    As you recomendet i will be buying a new powerl this one:Corsair CX2 ATX 430 W it says i has 80 plus efficience.I hope this will do the job and protect my hardwear.Latter down the line(in about 3 weeks) i will be buying a PSU

    The price of the whole system will be 331 evros(429,01)dolars and i think my goal has been achewed buying,assemblin a good but cheap computer.Here are my finalised specs
    -power supply:Corsair CX2 ATX 430 W
    -CPU: Intel Pentium G860 3 GHz
    -motherboard:Asus P8H61-M LX R2.0
    -RAM:Kingston DDR3 2 GB 1333 MHz (KVR1333D3S8N9/2G)
    -case:LC Power PRO-923B - Red Captor
    -graphical card:Asus GF GT 630, 2 GB, PCI-E 2.0
    -CPU cooler:Hladilnik Akasa AK-CC4007EP01 Nero 3
    -operating system:Windows 7 professional 64bit
    -monitor:SyncMaster 245b plus

    Hope all these fit toghether nicely and thank you again!(If you have any concerns or suggestion please write them)
    My entire system is the same price than a Gigabyte GeForce GTX 660 ha ha ha.
     
    #11 slovenia7, Nov 27, 2012
    Last edited: Nov 27, 2012
  12. Digerati

    Digerati Fantastic Member
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    Well, since the budget is a major concern, I am puzzled why you still have the aftermarket cooler listed. Why spend 24 quid on something you don't need? And for that matter, why spend money on a cooler that has cheap sleeve bearings when the OEM uses precision ball bearings. I don't see the logic.

    I like the Corsair, but 430W leaves you next to nothing in terms of any headroom. What if you decide to add a couple drives, more RAM or a bigger graphics card next year. You may have to buy a bigger PSU to support them.

    Note you only have 2Gb of RAM listed.
     
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  13. Drew

    Drew Banned

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    I agree, the cooler is not needed. Since we are talking x64, to take advantage of that the RAM should be a minimum of 4G. If you are going dual-core I would, again, suggest an i3. And it makes no sense, at this point in time, not to build a new machine w/ Windows 8 (rather than 7).

    Cheers,
    Drew
    new_windows_logo1.
     
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  14. slovenia7

    slovenia7 New Member

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    I em buying the CPU whitout the fan includet.Again the buget is very important and the i3 is 60 dolards more expensive and i em not going to do serious gaming an this machine.I there is a need for it i will buy it when i have the money.The plans are that i will be installing just more ram in the future (8gb).I realy dont like windows 8 i used it for 1 week (demo) and i dident liked it.I will be using only 1 drive(120gb) in the computer because i have a 1tb external drive.What CPUcoller woud you be installing for the price between 15-60 dolars?
    And i will be buying 2 of these RAM stick (my motherboard only support dual channel as you pointed out in the previus reply)

    Thank you!
     
    #14 slovenia7, Nov 27, 2012
    Last edited: Nov 27, 2012
  15. Drew

    Drew Banned

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    Normally the CPU has its own cooling fan. Should be no need to add one. I accept about the i3 being more money, fair enough. If money is an issue, you only really need to go as far as 4G to get full use of the x64 structure.

    Sorry you think you don't like 8. It is terrific in many ways, for many reasons, on many levels. Would, certainly, be the wiser choice.

    Cheers,
    Drew
    new_windows_logo1.
     
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  16. slovenia7

    slovenia7 New Member

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    I know most CPU are sold whit a stock cooler but it is not listed on my retailers site that there is one includet.Yes the windows 8 isent a bad OS but i just preffer windows 7.I dont want that mobile/table interface that windows 8 offeres on a deskop.If i will be geeting a windows 8 it will be most likely on a mobile device.
     
  17. Drew

    Drew Banned

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    You have a misunderstanding of Windows 8. It is just as much 'at home' on a non-touch desktop PC, as it is on any other (type of) device. As for its Start screen & Tiles, that aspect is, although cool, completely optional... one can do everything w/ it on & from Desktop in quite traditional ways.

    I, still, say, considering when you are building a new machine (now), it should be built w/ Windows 8. It is worth getting comfortable w/ it.

    I have checked into this w/ my supplier & YES the G860 DOES come w/ a fan. As I had said, you do not need to buy one for it.

    Cheers,
    Drew
    new_windows_logo1.
     
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  18. slovenia7

    slovenia7 New Member

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    Thank you for that information.So the stock cooler will be better?I will be doing some little overclocking of the cpu if possible.

    Thank you!
     
  19. Digerati

    Digerati Fantastic Member
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    IMO, the stock cooler is better than that cheap cooler with the sleeve bearings you selected.

    As I noted above, OEM coolers are excellent coolers fully capable of adequately cooling the CPU they come with, even with mild to moderate overclocking. Remember, it is the case's responsibility to provide an adequate front-to-back flow of cool air through the case. The CPU cooler only needs to toss up the CPU's heat into that flow.

    Intel does offer that CPU in both OEM (without cooler) and boxed retail (with cooler) versions. But as noted here, the boxed version is less than $5 more. So for less than $5, you get an excellent cooler and 3 year warranty.

    Your solution costs more, and you only get a 1 year warranty (on the CPU - I can find no warranty information on that Akasa cooler :(). If you are on tight budget, do the math. If later on down the road, if you decide to overclock and your case is failing to supply enough cool air, and you have maxed out the case's fan support, then you can swap out CPU coolers - but with something better.

    And while I am harping on this, note the orientation of that Akasa cooler's fan. It fires sideways. Understand motherboard designers purposely cluster heat generating and heat sensitive devices around the CPU socket so they too can take advantage of the "expected" downward firing cooling solution. I have seen way too many times novice users attempting to overclock ruin their systems by failing at "due diligence" - not doing their homework. They concentrate on CPU cooling only and fail to address "total system" cooling requirements. They fail to address cooling for the chipset, graphics, RAM, power regulation circuits, etc. - all of which are stressed too, when overclocking. This is especially hazardous with unprepared, inexperienced implementers of alternative (liquid, for example) cooling solutions.

    Sadly, many users who push their computers beyond specified limits often use their computers for "production purposes" - work or school papers, banking, and other critical personal financial and business tasks - essential tasks. Games are NOT essential tasks!

    Note too that motherboards must support overclocking. Some do, some don't. And of those that do, some do better than others.

    Note that CPU does come in OEM (without cooler) and "boxed" Retail (with cooler) packages. But as seen here, the difference is less than $5. So for less than $5, you get an excellent cooler and a 3 year warranty on the CPU and cooler. With the OEM, you have to pay more for an inferior cooler, the CPU is warrantied for only 1 year, and who knows what the warranty is on that cooler. One thing for sure, unlike the Intel and AMD warranties, the Akasa warranty does NOT cover replacement of the CPU!

    And I agree about W8. I personally refuse to give up my full sized keyboard, mouse and mulitple 22" widescreen monitors for some touchscreen OS. Fortunately, W8 fully supports "normal" HIDs (human interface devices) like keyboards and mice, and W8 fully supports multi-monitor setups.

    While W7 is a great OS with better security than previous versions of Windows, W8 is more secure yet. And with today's security environment we are in, thanks to badguys, better security is good thing, and reason alone to go with W8.

    FTR, the only time I use an aftermarket cooler is on home theater PC (HTPC) builds where "silent running" is desired. OEM coolers are not the quietest out there. That said, it is also the case's responsibility to suppress noises from within the case. And while some aftermarket cooler enthusiasts harp on CPU's fan noise, graphics cards, power supplies and case fans, all mounted on, or near an exterior vent of the case are typically the bigger (noisier) offenders.

    I agree. W8 is not going away. And I should note it really does not take long to "get comfortable" with it. I never migrated to Vista so when I replaced all my XP systems with new Windows 7 systems, there was a bit of a learning curve. But now when a XP system comes across my bench, it looks and feels old, archaic, clunky.

    Also, if you plan on getting a W8 mobile device, your learning curve there will be less if you are already familiar with W8 on the PC.
     
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  20. slovenia7

    slovenia7 New Member

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    Ok so my retailer said that tha CPU i listed doest not come whit a stock cooler.They said that the Intel Pentium G870 3,1 GHz does, so will be buying that one(it is supported by the motherboard i checkd) and it is only 15 evros more but i save 35 on the aftermarked cooler.Great the cost went down and and i get a slightly better CPU whit a better cooler.How do i find out of my motherboard support overclocking ?Asus web site?

    I em concedering a new graphic card i think thet the one i listed will be a bottletneck just beacose of my CPU.I was thinging if something like a Gigabyte GeForce GT 630 , 1 GB.What are your thots?

    And how many fans can i install and power them whit my power supply(i know my motherboard support 3 fans(1 CPU))?
     
    #20 slovenia7, Nov 28, 2012
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2012

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