Windows 7 Clean install Or Upgrade only

#1
I built my computer when the beta came out. So I did not buy a new copy of xp or vista. It is strictly running off of win7 RC at this time.
I have never done an upgrade to any of my computers and never will do an upgrade, as I no most of you guys will never do.
I am wondering about the following list.

1. Is the offer for $99 for an upgrade or full version of win 7 professional?
2. Will the upgrade disk do a clean format and a fresh install?
3. Will I have to have xp or vista installed before loading the upgrade disk?
4. Or will I have to wait till the full retail ver. comes out.
 


#2
The $99 version is an upgrade, not a full version.

I contacted MS tech support this morning They claimed that it would work like a Vista upgrade, which is:

It can do a clean install. (I believe that you can't normally format the install partition, though. See below.)

The installation DVD *must* be started from a working version of an OS that's qualified for an upgrade. (It's a little different if you're switching for a 32 bit version to a 64, or vice-versa.) I believe that an upgrade version won't format the partition, because that would prevent you from having an OS present on it.

That said, if it's like Vista, there is (as far as I know) one installation DVD for all versions. (Actually, there were 2: a 32 bit and a 64 bit.) The installation type is determined by the license, not the DVD.

There's a widely publicized trick: if you install the OS *without entering a license key*, you get a 30 day evaluation version of the OS of your choice. Microsoft made it possible for an evaluation copy to qualify for a clean install of the OS using an upgrade license. So, it's possible to install Vista on a blank hard drive using only an upgrade license: the problem is that you have to install Vista *twice*. You'd be in violating the license if you didn't own a qualifying OS, though.

I don't know whether Win7 will allow the same thing. I expect that it will. Consider someone who bought a commercial (HP, Dell, etc.) PC where the OS re-installation support is by a partition on the system's hard drive. Suppose that person buys a Windows 7 upgrade license and installs it. Sometime later, the hard disk dies. Microsoft could declare that all responsibility for getting back to a working Windows 7 installation would be up to the PC's seller. Or, they could provide a work-around so the system could be brought back up using a blank HD. MS appears to have chosen that way in Vista; perhaps they'll do the same in Win7. I doubt that'll be known until upgrade licenses are in public hands, or at least the hands of testers.

Do you feel lucky?
 


#3
Why not get upgrade and do a clean install from it. Thats what im doing since my vista is full of junk and i dont want all my old settings coming along with me to 7.
 


#4
Can the upgrade version do a full clean install with out doing the upgrade?
 


#5
I built my computer when the beta came out. So I did not buy a new copy of xp or vista. It is strictly running off of win7 RC at this time.
I have never done an upgrade to any of my computers and never will do an upgrade, as I no most of you guys will never do.
I am wondering about the following list.


2. Will the upgrade disk do a clean format and a fresh install?
3. Will I have to have xp or vista installed before loading the upgrade disk?

Please refer to this thread for the answer to your questions.. ;)

http://windows7forums.com/windows-7-discussion/8123-info-regarding-upgrade-media.html
 


#7
The $99 version is an upgrade, not a full version.

I contacted MS tech support this morning They claimed that it would work like a Vista upgrade, which is:

It can do a clean install. (I believe that you can't normally format the install partition, though. See below.)

The installation DVD *must* be started from a working version of an OS that's qualified for an upgrade. (It's a little different if you're switching for a 32 bit version to a 64, or vice-versa.) I believe that an upgrade version won't format the partition, because that would prevent you from having an OS present on it.

That said, if it's like Vista, there is (as far as I know) one installation DVD for all versions. (Actually, there were 2: a 32 bit and a 64 bit.) The installation type is determined by the license, not the DVD.

There's a widely publicized trick: if you install the OS *without entering a license key*, you get a 30 day evaluation version of the OS of your choice. Microsoft made it possible for an evaluation copy to qualify for a clean install of the OS using an upgrade license. So, it's possible to install Vista on a blank hard drive using only an upgrade license: the problem is that you have to install Vista *twice*. You'd be in violating the license if you didn't own a qualifying OS, though.

I don't know whether Win7 will allow the same thing. I expect that it will. Consider someone who bought a commercial (HP, Dell, etc.) PC where the OS re-installation support is by a partition on the system's hard drive. Suppose that person buys a Windows 7 upgrade license and installs it. Sometime later, the hard disk dies. Microsoft could declare that all responsibility for getting back to a working Windows 7 installation would be up to the PC's seller. Or, they could provide a work-around so the system could be brought back up using a blank HD. MS appears to have chosen that way in Vista; perhaps they'll do the same in Win7. I doubt that'll be known until upgrade licenses are in public hands, or at least the hands of testers.

Do you feel lucky?
The trick you speak of has been posted in the following thread.. ;)

http://windows7forums.com/windows-7-discussion/8123-info-regarding-upgrade-media.html
 


#8
Dido41,
Windows 7 upgrade will be able to do a clean install as long as you have a valid and legal copy of Windows XP or Windows Vista to show during the install. A prompt will appear asking for the cd-rom and product key.
Jessica
Microsoft Windows Client Team
 


bobkn

New Member
#9
JessicaD:

Has the ability to use a Windows 7 upgrade license to install the OS on a blank hard drive been published?

It would be good news for hobbyists. The Vista upgrade license restrictions were inconvenient, to put it mildly.
 


#10
"Up the creek without a paddle"?

Vista Ultimate qualifies you to use upgrade versions of Windows 7 Home Premium, Professional, and Ultimate. However, only Ultimate permits you to do an upgrade-in-place over Vista Ultimate, which preserves your applications and settings. The lesser versions require a clean install.

"Upgrade" is ambiguous. Windows 2000, XP, and Vista all qualify for the use of the Win7 upgrade versions. (That includes the X86 and X64 versions.) Most "upgrades" require a clean install, which will blow away your settings and applications. (You can transfer the settings, but not applications. There may be third party apps to transfer applications, but I've never tried one.) In other words, you can use an upgrade *license*, but what you get won't be an upgrade. (It'll be a virgin copy of Win7.) If you're confused by that, you're probably not alone.

Even "clean install" is ambiguous. To me, it suggests installing an OS on a blank partition. A Vista upgrade wasn't permitted to do that: you had to launch the DVD from a running OS that qualified for the upgrade. It didn't permit you to format the OS partition. (A full license was needed for that, at least in principle.) The old OS was saved to windows.old. I'm not sure what the rules will be for 7, but the betas could do the same sort of "clean" install. If a Win7 upgrade license permits installation in a blank partition, that'll be a big plus (for me, at least).
 


SIW2

New Member
#11
If you do the famous double install dance with a Vista upgrade dvd - on the first install from boot - you get exactly the same partitioning options as with any of the install dvd's.
 


Joe S

Excellent Member
#12
Are these upgrade versions tied to one PC like OEM versions? Will it still work if you change the motherboard or other major changes?
Joe
 


SIW2

New Member
#13
Hi Joe,

Good question.

The upgrade discs - frankly I am not ceratin.

You would think whatever license your original qualifying install had would continue.

BTW - if your o/s is tied to one machine - e.g. an OEM System builder license - you can upgrade that machine as much as you like.

You should be able to change pretty much everything except the mobo - without windows complaining.

If you change the mobo - windows thinks it is on a different machine.

I have heard from others, they rang the toll free MS activation line - explained their mobo died - and they got activated.
 


Emil

New Member
#14
Wrong.

Dido41,
Windows 7 upgrade will be able to do a clean install as long as you have a valid and legal copy of Windows XP or Windows Vista to show during the install. A prompt will appear asking for the cd-rom and product key.
Jessica
Microsoft Windows Client Team
One cannot install a Windows 7 upgrade by booting into it on a formatted hard drive. It has to be installed on a system running either XP or Vista. During the Windows 7 upgrade installation process, one is not asked for proof of purchase of the XP or Vista installaion BECAUSE IT IS ALREADY ON THE COMPUTER, thus one is NOT asked for an XP or Vista DVD install disc for its product key.
 


Emil

New Member
#15
I repeat, Upgrades are for upgrades. On to blank, empty HDDs is not an upgrade... I don't care what, if anything, it had before. Just because one maybe thinks there is some improvement going on, relative to some previous OS, improvement does not equal "upgrade". Hmmm, I'm feeling like Mr. Webster, again :frown:

Drew
So who said differently? I certainly didn't. Perhaps you'd better re-read my post.
 


#16
One cannot install a Windows 7 upgrade by booting into it on a formatted hard drive. It has to be installed on a system running either XP or Vista. During the Windows 7 upgrade installation process, one is not asked for proof of purchase of the XP or Vista installaion BECAUSE IT IS ALREADY ON THE COMPUTER, thus one is NOT asked for an XP or Vista DVD install disc for its product key.
One certainly CAN install Windows 7 using an Upgrade disc on a formatted HDD.. ;) You simply insert the DVD as normal and boot off of it then once you reach the installation options, you choose to do a clean install. The installation proceeds as normal, do NOT enter the product key during the installation, skip this step. Once done, you DON'T activate. You reboot (with the DVD still in the drive) and once again boot off the DVD. Only this time around you choose the Upgrade option when you reach the installation options. The install proceeds as normal. You are NOT asked for proof of a previous OS (As in there are no prompts that come up asking for you to insert a disc from a previous version of Windows). The install finishes and you may now activate.

This works because by installing the Clean install during the 1st run you have installed a "qualifying version of Windows". It doesn't matter that you didn't activate it because even without a key you are still able to use Windows for 30 days. Meaning that as far as the Windows installation is concerned, the clean install you did first counts as a "qualifying version of Windows".. ;) That is why you are then able to install using the Upgrade option.

So you see, you CAN in fact use the Upgrade media on a blank (whether it be a freshly formatted or just a brand new HDD) HDD without having to install or have proof of a previous version of Windows.. ;) This is a "trick" that Microsoft is fully aware of and that has been around for a while now.. Some argue that it violates the EULA but that's really up to anyone who does this to decide..

For a detailed set of instructions on this little trick just take a look at the very well written guide Mr. Paul Thurrott has written up available here: http://www.winsupersite.com/showcase/winvista_upgrade_clean.asp

I realize this guide is for Vista but it will also work with Windows 7.

This trick is for those who want to perform a Clean Install but only have the money to buy an Upgrade version of Windows 7. This has nothing to do with Upgrade paths and what not. I was simply making sure people know that you can in fact use the Upgrade media to install Windows 7 on a blank HDD.
 


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#17
Thanks Radenight. I was unaware of this. Good to know!:eek:
 


SIW2

New Member
#18
Let's hope that can still be done with 7. There have been persistent rumors to the contrary. MS own Harold Wong blogged the way to do it was to insert a disc containing a qualifying version.

He has since withdrawn that statement as he hasn't been able to get official confirmation.

We will soon find out.
 


Emil

New Member
#19
Then what's the use of paying $200 for a full version?

Thanks Radenight. I was unaware of this. Good to know!:eek:
I guess we'll have to see just what happens on October 23rd when everyone has the chance to slip in an UPGRADE Windows 7 disc into their DVD and TRIES to get what will be the equivalent of a Full Upgrade on a formatted disc.
What you are saying goes against EVERYTHING I have read on several posts about this upgrade. Gateway says it is impossible to do a clean install on a formatted disc, that one has to have an OS on their computer to make an upgrade. So does Dell.
And then there's this from the official Microsoft web site:

In order to install the upgrade version of Windows 7, you must have a qualifying Windows operating system installed and activated. You cannot install an upgrade version of Windows 7 on a blank hard drive. The installation procedure does not ask you to insert a Windows disc in the drive for verification, the actual qualifying operating system must be installed.
If you do not have a qualifying Windows operating system installed with a genuine license activated, then you cannot use the upgrade version of Windows 7 - you would need a "full version" Windows 7 license.

In summary:

1. A qualifying Windows operating system must be installed.
2. The qualifying Windows operating system must have a genuine license (product key) and it must be activated.
3. To upgrade, boot to the qualifying Windows desktop, insert the Windows 7 Upgrade disc in the DVD drive.
4. When the setup menu appears, select Custom (advanced) to initiate a clean install procedure.

Where did YOU find your information?
Like I said in the beginning of this post, if we could install the upgrade on a formatted disc, why on god's green earth would Microsoft sell a full version of Windows 7?
Let's see . . . what are my options . . . pay fifty bucks for a Windows 7 upgrade and install it on a formatted disc . . . or . . . pay two hundred dollars for the full version so I can do the same thing . . . hmmmm . . . I just can't decide.
 


SIW2

New Member
#20
Thanks Emil,

For previous versions of winows, up to and including Vista there has always been a way to install upgrade license to a blank drive.

That is why people expect it will also be possible this time.

We do not yet know for sure exactly what the situation is as nobody has an upgrade license to try it with.

Picture this:

You install the upgrade as usual. Some time later the HD fails. You buy another HD. Then What?

Do you have a link to the MS page you quoted from ?

Thanks.
 


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