Does anyone plan on dropping XP?

Discussion in 'Windows XP Help and Support' started by sirloyne, Jun 26, 2013.

  1. sirloyne

    sirloyne Banned

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    XP is fast. It's also uses MUCH less resources than every OS after it. XP is for people who like to get things done on their computer. One of my computers has a 500GB HDD, 4GB of 1600 mhz ram (only 3.5 useable) and an Intel i5 3.4 GHz Quad-Core Ivy Bridge (OC'd to 4.2). I have the room... I have the power, but I have no desire to switch to an OS that consistently does less and less with each version, all the while using more and more resources. I put function before form. My computers aren't tablets and they're not phones, I don't want an OS designed for a phone on my computer. I don't want to have to hover my mouse pointer in the magical place while I wait for the secret options screen to appear. I don't use apps. Angry Birds is an app. Whip cracking sounds when you shake your phone is an app. I use software. Argue all you want that "app" is just the new hipster way of saying application, but App-le started calling their idiotic little plug-ins apps and it made their loyal flock of sheeple feel chic saying it. Microsoft changing my Start menu to an All Apps Screen is just sad. Sad and pathetic. It's just M$ trying to prove that they can be hip too. I don't want to have to use keyboard shortcuts to open things. There's a reason why they invented "point & click". Point & click was an improvement to using keyboard shortcuts. People telling me to "get with the times" and just hit the Win key + ? baffle me. Why would I use an OS that's clearly going backwards?

    When these new reports come out about how Windows 7 is now the most popular OS, how it finally surpassed XP, I can't help but wonder how many people swallow this hook, line and sinker. I'm not claiming that 7 didn't pass XP, it did. But WHY did it is what you should be wondering. What caused this massive migration? The only reason 7 passed XP is because people were grabbing up all the 7 machines they could so they WOULDN'T be stuck with 8. Now you may think "But Microsoft says they sold 100 million licenses for Windows 8", but we're only talking licenses here. How may of those were sold to HP, Dell, Gateway, or whoever? How many of those are on computers just sitting around on shelves waiting to be sold? How many are just sitting around waiting to go on a computer that hasn't even been built yet? How many were sold for $15, only for people to find out it was terrible and remove it? Personally, I'm in that last option. "How many registered users are there" would be a better place to start, or "how many of those registered users are STILL using it" might be better still.

    So... with M$ ending support for XP next year, who plans on dropping it? If it still works, and you can still use new hardware, and all of your programs still run... will you switch? How many people believe that if M$ doesn't support it you'll be suddenly be plagued by viruses, malware, and hackers? When was the last time you got a virus with XP? I use Avira Premium Antivirus and ZoneAlarms free 2 way firewall version 9.2. (They also went the route of crapifying their software, but looking good doing it in later versions.). Other than downloading and installing SP3 I NEVER install updates. I only install the ones that are required by software I want to install, and those are very far and few in between. I don't remember the last time I had a virus. I don't believe my computer will spontaneously combust if I don't downgrade my OS, do you?
     
    #1 sirloyne, Jun 26, 2013
    Last edited: Jun 26, 2013
  2. Pauli

    Pauli Extraordinary Member
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    I understand your point, and actually I agree with it. I've always thought that, instead of creating new OSs, Microsoft should have improved the basis of Windows 98 and NT. But the business idea told something else. And the ones hunting with viruses and all sorts of malware ran just a footstep behind. Oh God, how the world lives!

    Practically, there's no way other than to jump from XP to 7 or 8. There is no option for common consumers, is there? When even the security support ends, it leads to a situation where you can't be on Internet for more than x minutes without getting hit.
     
    #2 Pauli, Jul 4, 2013
    Last edited: Jul 4, 2013
  3. Ralph Bromley

    Ralph Bromley Honorable Member

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    Well there is always linux, sure you loose gaming support, but some distros like mint can fill in the gaps for old and new users alike.
    Sure it wont replace windows XP but for older users I say linux mint inst that bad and a long time XP user would pick up on it real quick.
     
  4. Drew

    Drew Banned

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    Why anyone stays or wants to stay w/ XP is a real mystery. It was good in its day. But, you could not pay many of us to use XP, again; not when there is an OS so much better. Things are not made for XP anymore, things don't run on or don't work on XP (now), support is disappearing. It was ok, in its time, but, pales compared to contemporary Operating systems.

    Just the humble opinion of an IT Pro.

    Cheers,
    Drew
     
  5. Ralph Bromley

    Ralph Bromley Honorable Member

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    there are several factors why people want to stick with XP.
    For one they may be on older hardware, if you have not paid attention the economy isnt all that great for everyone and if you still have an old computer that still works it seems wasteful to dump it.
    Two comes familiarity, some people just dont like change, there are people who are used to one setup are adverse to change.
    Heck there are some people who are scared off by the simplest of changes.
    Sure people can learn but it takes time and care.
    its the same issue facing Microsoft and windows overall right now, change can be good yes but there is a right way and a wrong way to do it.
    A lot of long time windows users can attest to how difficult the change from windows 7 to 8 is.
    And windows int alone, there a lot of people who come over to linux who expect it to be like windows but find out its another bird entirely.
    And trust me even as a Microsoft bashing linux loony like me can attest to how change can make or break things for some people.
    Are there better OS's then XP?
    Sure are, not only there is Windows 7, but there are the various linux flavors and apple to consider.
    But if you are going to change someones OS you got to make sure it can fit the bill overall.
    This is why I always say give linux mint a shot for those who dont feel like the new fangled interfaces of windows 7 or 8.
    Sure there is a learning curve but we all have to learn something new sometime, but I will be blunt and say that at the rate Windows 8 is going I would give someone Ubuntu or something like that any day over 8 for a long time windows user.
     
  6. Drew

    Drew Banned

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    Ralph,

    I guess we'll just agree to disagree. The thing about humans not liking or resisting change is too oft, actually, used an excuse not to bother w/ something new or somewhat different, even, if it might be smart or better.

    XP was, already, old & outdated when 7 came along. Sooner or later people replace old hardware or as 1st timers buy a new machine. Nor are new machines all that expensive, anymore. Also, hardware doesn't necessarily have to be replaced... it is astounding what Windows 7 & certainly, Windows 8 will run on.

    There are a million reasons to get off XP & have been for years & long before Windows 8 arrived. As time goes by the reasons just gain impact. Someone learned XP, they can learn the differences in newer systems. Nor is 7 or 8 hard to learn.

    And even if someone does want to cling to the XP dinosaur does not mean it's the right or smart thing to do.

    And never mind about the Windows 8 interface cus it's not even imperative that be used. I think highly of Windows 8 & never leave Desktop... never see tiles or other screens... easy & familiar :)

    Enough said, we'll just agree to disagree.

    Cheers,
    Drew
     
  7. Ralph Bromley

    Ralph Bromley Honorable Member

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    Well my perspective is always on the average joe, sure I know a lot about computers (heck I built one)
    But I never think of just the latest and so called greatest.
    I think on how much learning curve one can have to a new OS, I was there myself when i first used linux about 10 years ago.
    Even Windows has a learning curve from version a to b.
    Trust me its not easy weening people off XP, took me two years to ween my parents off XP.
    My father especially as he was afraid of the computer, but now my parents are full time linux users.
    Both on Ubuntu 12.04
    Not saying thats the answer for everyone, but if anone is going to switch OS's I say do your homework a little.
    Youtube has plenty of vids with tutorials, there are also community wikis and forums.

    Just keep in mind just because you are in IT, doesnt mean everyone is.
    And not eveyone in IT knows their stuff, so it goes both ways.
     
  8. Drew

    Drew Banned

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    Everyone does not need to be an IT. And the average user would not be someone to tackle Linux.

    It's, also, coincidence, in a manner of speaking, that the latest Windows just happens to be Microsoft's best OS, to date.

    I'm out of this discussion, now.

    Cheers,
    Drew
     
  9. nmsuk

    nmsuk Windows Forum Admin
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    Bobbins I know many an average user using Linux just fine.
     
    catilley1092 likes this.
  10. enewbold

    enewbold Senior Member

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    Well, Drew, there are very many people, as well as small companies, who are struggling to make it, financially, from day to day, and they are stuck with XP.
    I, personally, have all my machines at Windows 7 level, except one. That one machine must stay with XP because of the older laser engraver drivers that only work with XP. I am not going to (nor am I able to) drop another $20,000 for a new machine, as this one works just fine. Perhaps in five years or so, when this machine finally fails and I'm forced to get a new one, I'll get one compatible with whatever the current OS is at that time.

    Windows 8 is the "best OS to date?" Holy cow, what a goofy statement that is! Drew must work for MS (smile).

    Ed in Columbus, OH
    Just an "average user" who knows Linux quite well. Too bad my machines don't!
     
  11. Pandaz3

    Pandaz3 Honorable Member

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    I have always been a early adopter of new OS's. I struggled with DOS, I had Windows 1.0 for my Commodore 64 and was unimpressed, but I tried Windows 3.0 later on a work machine and it was barely better than DOS, okay it wasn't better, but I still was struggling with DOS. Then a ray of sunshine with Win 3.1, that ray brightened with 3.11 for Work groups. but all of my personal computing stubbornly remained with Commodore 64, 128, and Amiga and my software investment was holding me back from a x86 machine. When Microsoft announced the release of Windows 95 I took the plunge and bought a new Pentium 133, I used Norton Commander to allow 95 to use 16 bit file names, I was in heaven and had no need to move to 98, but I was the first kid on the bloc with Win ME, a reviled OS that I got along with quite well. By this time I was building my own computers and I was fairly well acquainted with the Driver situation. Along comes XP, and things got so much better, really because it was held in much higher regard by everyone especially the people who made DRIVERS. Because everyone jumped on the bandwagon, industry and consumers alike, you had a prolific acceptance of XP. I did get XP 64 and thought it to be the snappiest OS ever. It was not universally accepted, many did not think 64 bit was the future and driver support lagged. I have a machine with Win 64 on it now and after spending many hours on it this past month I am sadly considering moving it to Win 7 or even 8.1 (It is on a 90 year old's computer and she doesn't want anything on it but her BIG Icons, she definitely can't remember anything else anyway).
    Along the way I have tried a dozen or better Linux Distros. Struggle with DOS, struggle with Linux. I am not a command line guy especially when I don't know nor care to learn all the Linux shorthand. They are all in the rearview mirror.
    After Win 64 I did make the move to Vista, it did get better support, but Win 7 is really way better. XP lacked foreign language support and required supplemental programs with their own problems. Win 7 Ultimate solved those and my wife has four computers with that OS. I have forced a Win 8.1 machine on her and the Language support turns out to be wonderful with 8.1. I have two desktops and a Laptop with 8.1. I am not a Win 8 fan, but I am trying to make it work (Way too radical in my opinion, I am struggling with it)
    That said I am leaving XP behind. I understand that Drivers are almost as important as the OS itself so if you need a legacy driver, you have to stay with the OS that supports it.
     
  12. Drew

    Drew Banned

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    Pandaz,

    If you would like me to offer you ways to have Win8 be less of "a struggle" for you, please, let me know. I would be glad to do that for you.

    Cheers,
    Drew
     
  13. Ralph Bromley

    Ralph Bromley Honorable Member

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    No one can learn linux easily, its all the matter of choosing the right one.

    As for windows 8 being Microsofts best?

    HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!! thats a good one, what with its crappy interface that is only good with a touchscreen and the need of third party software just to get a proper start menu, yeah real great OS there.
    But I will get into why windows 8 sucks if you really want me to
     
  14. Ralph Bromley

    Ralph Bromley Honorable Member

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    What linux distros did you try may i ask?
    And what diffuculties did you face using it more specifically?
    As right now linux can be as "easy" as windows, again I bring up linux mint as it has all the bells and whistles you need except for gaming.
    Plus some driver support and device support has improved greatly.
     
  15. Drew

    Drew Banned

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    If you are making issue over the Win8 start screen and tiles...why? When none of that needs to be used, anyway; don't like it, don't have to use it.

    It 100% false that Win8 is only 'happy' w/ Touch

    It is, also, 100% false that any such 3rd party stuff must be added to Windows 8

    Hard to believe that after all this time we are, still, seeing such myths propagated.

    Thinking Win8 is bad is one thing but, naive people should only hear truths.

    Cheers,
    Drew
     
  16. Ralph Bromley

    Ralph Bromley Honorable Member

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    Oh really then?
    Explain why users are complaining about Metro
    Or cant get their heads around it and are wanting thier older systems back?
    Again this all goes down to the truth that Windows 8 should not have been put out in the current market.
    There was nothing wrong with 7, it worked fine for everyone and yet three years later Microsoft wanting to hop into the mobile market and wanted everything to be like a mobile device.
    People are struggling all over with windows 8, there are countless youtube videos about it.
    Honestly, you would have to be blind in order not to see the problems one would have with windows 8.
     
  17. davehc

    davehc Microsoft MVP
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    As right now linux can be as "easy" as windows, again I bring up linux mint as it has all the bells and whistles you need except for gaming.
    Plus some driver support and device support has improved greatly
    .

    I think you may have answered your own query in your post with those two sentences?

    Since Vista, which had serious driver problems, perpetrated by lack of interest from the driver programmers, I have rarely had any serious driver issues with Windows. You do tend to broadly state opinions that suit your arguments, from the web, but leave out those which do not suit, "People are struggling all over with windows 8", and yet, your remark in my first quote from your post, fail to even mention that a very significant number of users, also easily read around the web, do play most games on their computers. FWIW. The vast majority of those "struggling", at least on pages such as these, appear to be focussed on on the lack of a start menu!

    And, again, the broad remarks in your posts should be perhaps challenged.
    Yr #4.

    "For one they may be on older hardware, if you have not paid attention the economy isn't all that great for everyone and if you still have an old computer that still works it seems wasteful to dump it."

    I am retired and on a very low income. XP is so historic, that it even dates back to before my retirement. In the days when Vista was introduced, and even up to the Windows 7 era, there was no problem with finding cash to update hardware. In fact, XP to Vista was quite an era, with manufacturers competing fanatically with each other with innovative new hardware.
    Even my wife, very computer uneducated, insisted on moving up to Windows 7, at its introduction. My guess (NOT quoting from any web stats) is that the majority of XP users today are hobbyists, (I even have one such acquaintance who plays with a Commodore 64 - lol), or companies with small bankrolls. The "economy". Absolutely not. My large family, from children down to grandchildren, are already equipped, across the board, with Ipads and the like.

    "A lot of long time windows users can attest to how difficult the change from windows 7 to 8 is"

    I will admit that MS should have educated the mass, regarding the dual functionality of Windows 8, but, having found that it can be used precisely as was Windows 7, and, as Drew has repeatedly pointed out, without ever having to see the Metro screen again, then I could not really agree on any "difficulty" in the change. In 8.1, it will be even more apparent, as the option is there to use the modern or the legacy desktop.

    "Sure there is a learning curve but we all have to learn something new sometime, but I will be blunt and say that at the rate Windows 8 is going I would give someone Ubuntu or something like that any day over 8 for a long time windows user"

    As an "across the board", OS geek, I have from time to time experimented with several Linux flavours, including "Mint", with immediate problems with hardware, finding familiar software etc, I have rarely allowed it to occupy space on my computers, for more than a couple of weeks. I appreciate that my knowledge may be a little above the average daily OS user , but I have found the "learning curve" of Windows 8 much easier than any linux OS I have tried.

    It is refreshing to have points of view on any subject, even outside the context of IT/Windows, but , as a " Microsoft bashing linux loony" (Your words) you must appreciate that 96% of the members on these pages are trying to find solutions to Windows products, and, hopefully, get positive feedback on their requests. I would suggest that, having read some of your posts, that your expressed attitude is not encouraging to those aspirants. But, again your own words from a previous post, perhaps we will have to agree to disagree.
     
  18. Ralph Bromley

    Ralph Bromley Honorable Member

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    Well yes I am willing to admit the weak points in linux, itrs foolish to pretend its perfect.

    Well yes I can be broad, but i take a look at the big picture here.
    I am not entirely pulling it out of my bum.

    Again I am talking about the bigger picture here

    Wich is a good thing, actually its something that Microsoft should have done in the first place, have a transitional setup so when we got to metro no one would feel uncomfortable.

    To be fair his part more or less relies on hardware mind you, again admittedly there are some things linux isnt as good with.
    But its improving, with open video card drivers and more printer companies being more friendly with it.

    I was actually being tongue and cheek there with my Microsoft bashing linux loony line.
    I actually forgot to emoticon for that bit, sorry.
     
  19. Drew

    Drew Banned

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    1st of all, Windows OSs are on a 3 year life-cycle. XP hung around much longer than it was supposed to or should have. Vista was sluggish and 3rd party vendors were not ready w/ drivers or compatible software or hardware when it was released. So less than 3 years later Windows 7 arrived. Windows 8 was released on schedule exactly 3 years after 7. Windows 9 will be released 3 years after Windows 8.

    We early adopters of Windows 8 have listen to the rhetoric regarding the Win8 interface for many months. It was never deserving & still, isn't. There are decent tutorials for Windows 8 both in the OS itself, on the Net, @ Microsoft.com & in forums such as this one. As David mentioned, I have been telling people for all these any months one can easily use Win8 w/out leaving Desktop or bothering w/ Tiles or the unfamiliar style of display found on the ALL Applications screen. That fact is many people, actually like the APPs, Tiles and how all that can be use or even be of benefit to their computing needs, tasks and daily work or jobs. Most of the whining is either from a lack of willingness to go w/ something new & different. I, like many others, had no problem discovering Win8 & the 'adventure' was interesting & fun. There are so many positive attributes to Win8 that huge time over cosmetics really misses the boat. There are many cool enhancements w/ 8.1. There Win icon permanently on the Taskbar just means one can hit that instead of the Windows key. And yes one can set it to boot directly to Desktop... saves hitting ENTER on those rare times one needs to boot. And it can now be set to go to ALL Applications instead of Start. And, yet, I, still, use an Applications window on the Taskbar, never leave Desktop, never see Start or ALL Applications. Hard to validate making a fuss about something one can chose to not even use. Aside from that aspect Windows 8 is fast, smooth, and, truth, easy to use... takes less digging and steps than Windows 7 did for similar tasks.

    We don't hear nearly as much complaining about this stuff anymore as time as passed. I have sold Windows 8 & Windows 8 machines to a number of clients. ALL like it a lot & w/ a couple of tips & a couple minutes of 'how tos' they have had no problem working w/ it.

    I must be blind cus I don't see problems w/ Windows but, anyone can see problems IF they want to & IF they want to consider something a problem. Attitude & perception.

    Nor is it right to try to imply Microsoft to be so sort of bad guy in regard to mobility. Nor to suggest Win8 is crap on a regular PC or laptop. IT works just as well, just as nicely on a standard, non-Touch machine, as anything else. One of the major accomplished design goals of 8 was to function across various devices. As for mobility, that is not s Microsoft thing... that is a matter of our changing world. PEOPLE want or need mobility. From teens to adults that is the way things have gone & are going. Regarding business, that is (now) the way or things & that is only going to intensify. The workforce is changing, fewer stationary desk scenarios & more & more workers ARE mobile. Ergo manufacturers are responding to this.

    Most of the assets of Windows 8 are under the covers. Most of the assets of 8.1 are under the covers. One cool superficial thing is adding Shutdown options to the Power Users menu ( for the rare times shutdown or reboot is necessary saves going to Charms) and Search is improved. There are, also, a lot of things in 8.1 business will like, same as a lot of Windows 8 focused on & catered to business. Win8 is more streamlined & simplistic than 7 was. But, comparing it to XP is just ridiculous. XP's time has passed. Or did a while ago. Welcome to today & the future of computing.

    Sorry, but, some of us grow weary of this sorts of discussions cus they are just not deserving. Complain that the river flows a certain direction, swim against the current but, it will, still, flow & in the same direction. Trying to bash the river or blame its source won't matter. Computing will, still, continue along its course.

    Cheers,
    Drew
     
  20. Mike

    Mike Windows Forum Admin
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    Hi Drew,

    I think you have a point, but mine may make even more sense. For a total of $10 USD to Stardock, you can...
    • Get back the entire start menu with Start8
    • Run every Modern UI app from the desktop with ModernUI in windowed mode.
    Under this scenario, you are running an updated Windows 6.2 kernel and still, essentially, have all the features that you feel were deprecated in Windows 7. The only major loss for me has been FRAPS. It was quite possibly the best screen recorder software for Windows - period. Camtasia is sluggish in comparison. FRAPS simply gave the raw output of the video, uncompressed, as it was being tracked. This required a lot of disk space, even a slave drive, but I do the same for my VM's and it was lightning fast and superb quality.
     
    #20 Mike, Jul 28, 2013
    Last edited: Jul 28, 2013

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