Making Windows 7 partition accessible to xp pro

Discussion in 'Windows 7 Networking' started by dkperez, Dec 5, 2009.

  1. dkperez

    dkperez New Member

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    I KNOW this is going to be dumb as soon as somebody tells me what it is, but:

    Windows 7 64-bit system. I want to be able to work with files in a regular directory on a Windows 7 disk from a Windows XP Pro laptop. I made the W7 disk sharable, and gave everyone full access. On the xp system I mapped the drive, and told it to log in using the same username and password I use on the windows 7 system. The system shows, up, the drive shows, up, but when I tell it to map I get a "y:\ is not accessible. Access is denied" error.

    I did a search in here but I'm apparently using the wrong terms 'cause it didn't find any mention of this problem, and unless I'm having an exceptionally dumb day, I can't be the only person having this problem...
     
  2. dkperez

    dkperez New Member

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    Any ideas? 'Cause its becoming a problem not to be able to get at files on the Windows 7 system...
     
  3. Trouble

    Trouble Noob Whisperer

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    Check your ntfs permissions, under the security tab of the advanced sharing options and see if they are set correctly to reflect what you are trying to do. Just tested here and was able to access my Win7 drive C:\ (which I shared as Win7_Main) share permissions set to full control everyone, ntfs permissions full control everyone. Then I mapped the drive on My wife's XP pro machine upstairs....no problem. Then I promptly reversed everything since none of it's in keeping with best practices and standards from a security standpoint, but I was just testing. So if you're still having issues after adjusting the ntfs permissions (which is what controls access over the network) then we may want to look at something a little more basic.
     
  4. dkperez

    dkperez New Member

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    Still getting a "no access" error...... So, starting from the beginning:

    Right clicked on the partition in Windows Explorer. This gave me a menu on which I selected "share with".
    Which presented me with a single item "Advanced Sharing", which brings up a popup of the partition properties.

    On the "Sharing" tab I selected Advanced Sharing (there's a "share" button but it's grayed out. In Advanced Sharing I check the "Share this folder" box, gave it a share name, and left the number of simultaneous users at 20.

    I then pressed the "Permissions" button and got another popup where the only choice of "Group or user names" was "Everyone".... I set the permission to everyone having full control. Closed that popup. Closed the "Advanced Sharing" popup.

    Back on the properties popup I selected the Security tab. Here, I have 4 entries in the "Group or user names" (Authenticated users, SYSTEM, Administrators, Users). I set them ALL to have full control... Hit the "Advanced" button and in the "Advanced Security Settings" popup I verified that all 4 user types have "Full Control". Owner is set to "SYSTEM", which I presume is normal. Closed this popup. Closed the original popup... The drive is now "sharable".......

    Go to the XP box and do a normal "Map network drive"... It completes the share but whether I log in as a different user and provide the specific user information for the Windows 7 system or not, I still get the popup that says the drive is not accessible. "Access is denied"

    SO, what am I doing wrong, or not doing, or whatever it is that's causing this to fail?
     
  5. Trouble

    Trouble Noob Whisperer

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    A couple more steps....under security tab click the edit button near center of dialog box. On the next dialog box that pops up choose the add button near center of box. On the next dialog box click advanced near bottom left, next dialog box that pops up choose find now near center right of dialog box....now this is where you have to do what suits you, you can simply scroll down until you see the "Everyone" group, select that and choose ok twice and then select the everyone group and grant them whatever permissions you choose (full, modify, Read, write, etc). Try the everyone full and see if that works (not what I would recommend) and later we can discuss setting up more grandular security.
     
  6. dkperez

    dkperez New Member

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    EUREKA!!!!!

    I don't think I would EVER have gotten that far down in the security to find that..... A HUGE change from the way it worked in XP.......

    OK, I can now see the disk and files and all such....... SO, now that I've done it so every 10-year-old on the planet can invade my system, what do I need to do so only local systems inside the access point can get at files? In the "olden" days (that'd be a couple weeks ago), I just put the same account on every machine and it worked. What do I need to do in this new world?
     
  7. Trouble

    Trouble Noob Whisperer

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    Yep...see highlight in your quote....still works....same user on both....same password for that same user on both....Windows PassThrough Authentication should still get you where you want to be....just choose that user in the last couple of steps instead of "everyone" group. If you have identical users with identical passwords with identical permissions (that is they belong to the same group or groups on both PC's you shouldn't have to do any of this. The authentication should just pass through assuming workgroups are the same.
    EDIT: and don't for get to remove the "everyone" group.
     
    #7 Trouble, Dec 9, 2009
    Last edited: Dec 9, 2009
  8. dkperez

    dkperez New Member

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    I'm still missing something..........

    I took the disk I made sharable yesterday (drive Q) and removed the permissions for "everyone". I made sure I had exactly the same account username and password on both the XP box and the W7 box.

    At present, on the security tab, Q has "Authenticated Users", who have everything but "Full Control", "SYSTEM" that has everything, "Administrators" (which is what the account I'm using is one of) that have everything, and "Users" that have Read & Execute, List folder contents, and Read. I hit "Advanced" and on the popup I hit "Change Permissions", then did an "Add". On the "Select User or Group" popup I again hit "Advanced" and then added the account that matches the one on the XP box. Going all the way back to the Security tab I edited the permissions and assigned everything to the account.

    Then I went into the sharing and did the same thing - added the account and gave it full control...... So, in my mind I should ABSOLUTELY be able to get at this drive from the XP box.

    Unfortunately, no good.

    I checked the permissions for the share, and Everyone is in there with "Read". Everyone is NOT, however in the security tab. SO, I went back into Security and added Everyone (down through the same process as with the XP account), and gave it full control. At this point the disk is accessible from the XP system, but attempting to edit a file on the Windows 7 disk gets me a "read only" on the file. Same thing when I try to delete......

    I tried the same thing on another disk that I haven't been playing with... Got the same result. I can get at the disk, but it's read only. So, I've got SOMETHING still wrong... And it can't possibly be as difficult as I'm making it..... So, what do I need to to get this thing to work?
     
  9. Trouble

    Trouble Noob Whisperer

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    Not sure, it looks like according to what I'm reading that everything should be ok. Are you getting an error when you try to map or access the share have you logged of and logged back on as that user on both machines to make sure that the account has acquired a new access token?
     
  10. Trouble

    Trouble Noob Whisperer

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    Fix what I highlight in the quote....I just re-read it and across a network the most restrictive permissions are gonna win every time so if your user is a member of the "Users" group...it doesn't make any difference what other group he belongs to if the "Users" group only have read and execute then that's all he's gonna get. Let me know if this works
     
  11. dkperez

    dkperez New Member

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    I'da sworn I put a reply in here earlier, but it seems to be missing, so hopefully this isn't a duplicate........ And believe
    it or not, after all this boring junk, there really is a question at the bottom......

    I went back to the beginning...... Both machines have the same workgroup. Both machines have the identical account, and both are administrators.

    It's gotta be something I"m missing that's going to be obvious as soon as I know what it is......

    Until then, I've resorted to the normal method I use when I'm stumped - BRUTE FORCE & MASSIVE IGNORANCE!

    Starting from a NEW drive I haven't fiddled with...... the drive security has
    Authenticated users - everything but full control
    SYSTEM - full control
    Administrators - full control
    Users - Read & Execute, List folder contents, Read

    The share has
    Everyone - Read only

    Turned on the share and didn't change the permissions on the share.

    Tried to map the drive from XP and got the "drive is not accessible. Access is denied."

    SO, I"m guessing this means it's no longer enough to have the same account on both machines......

    SO, back into security and ADDED Everyone, and gave it read, write and so on. No modify or full.
    Now I can attach successfully, read files, but I can't write to them even though Everyone has WRITE.
    Added Modify. Same result. Added Full Control. Same result.
    SO, apparently, it doesn't matter WHAT I do in Security unless I ALSO do something in the Share permissions...

    Next I went back into Security and completely removed Everyone.
    And back into the share where I gave Everyone Full control.
    This gets me back to the problem of "drive is not accessible. Access is denied."
    Put Everyone back to Read and added Administrators and my account and gave them full control.
    STILL the same result. Access is denied.
    So, even with my account and Administrators in both places I STILL can't change files...

    I presume from all this foolishness above that I'm going to HAVE to put Everyone in the Security permissions,
    and give it SOME kind of access... SO, I left the share permission for Everyone at Read, and added Everyone
    to Security with a bunch of permissions - pretty much everything but Full Control. Can't write.
    SO, I changed the share permission on Everyone and added Change.
    NOW IT works fine as near as I can tell. I can read, write, create files and all such......

    BUT, my question now (you KNEW eventually I'd get to a question) is how much permission is SAFE for Everyone to have?
    One of the sets of files that'll be share is all our financial data for Quicken - my wife updates stuff on her XP machine
    upstairs, I sometimes update from the laptop in the family room, and the DATA all sits on the disks on the biggest, fastest
    box in the office that's running Windows 7... SO, how much permission is safe?
     
  12. Trouble

    Trouble Noob Whisperer

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    Try this....first of all, stop your current sharing set up, just go into advanced sharing and uncheck share this folder Ok your way out of there and let's start over...right click on the drive of folder and choose properties. Under the sharing tab, choose advanced sharing now check the folder again and give it a name, something friendly and intuitive such as MyData (No spaces please) now click the permissions button on that page, ignore the "Everyone" group for now, click the add button, click advanced, click find now, you will notice that the administrators group at the top is auto seclected, now hold the control key and scroll down and select "Authenticated Users" and near the bottom "Users" and click OK twice now in the permissions box select individually the Administrators Group and give them full, select the Authenticated Users group and give them full, and then select Users group and give them full. Now select the everyone group and remove it. Now on the security tab you need to do basicly the same thing...Administrators Group should already be there with full permissions....the Users Group will be there, but their permissions will be restricted to Read, you need to set this like you want, "Modify" will give them everything except I think Delete permission, Now add the "Authenticated Users" group and do the same thing. You need to understand that if your user "John Smith" is a member of multiple groups...say for instance the "Administrators" groups and the "Users" or "Authenticated Users" then the most restrictive permission will apply, if the Users group or the Authenticated Users group only have "Modify" permissions then that restriction will apply to "John Smith" even if he is a member of the "Administrators" group. Make sure you get rid of the everyone group, after you're done because you don't need it. Please read this and see if it helps Combining Shared Folder and NTFS Permissions
    Let us know how you're doing
     
    #12 Trouble, Dec 12, 2009
    Last edited: Dec 12, 2009
  13. dkperez

    dkperez New Member

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    Finally...... I'm not sure what's different between this and the umpteen combinations I tried, but if I put administrators, authenticated users, home users, and users in everything, and give the shares full control, and all but users full control in security, it works......

    turns out my account is part of administrators, home users and users.......

    SO, I've got EVERYONE out, and so far I seem to be able to read and write. I'll have to try Quicken from one of the other machines and see what happens......

    thanks for the help.
     
  14. Trouble

    Trouble Noob Whisperer

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    Glad you're finally moving along....you should be able to control your user's group membership by adding and removing him from groups as you see fit, that seems like it would make your life a little easier. Anyway glad you hung in there and got it resolved.
     
  15. dkperez

    dkperez New Member

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    OK, I"m going to put this here since you guys dragged me through the whole mess of getting XP and W7 talking.......
    I only have a little hair left, and what little I've got is in serious danger of being yanked out!

    BTW: I finally realized the thing about using a directory for sharing versus a partition... The directory is a lot easier if you have the same account on both machines... SO, for the partition I was sharing I put a directory at the top, stuck all the other directories inside that one, and now I just share the top level directory..... Perty easy..........

    BUT, and I don't even know if this has ANYTHING to do with Windows 7, but here goes:

    Main machine is hard-wired into DSL modem, running Windows 7, and works perfectly.
    Machine2 is a laptop running XP, wireless to the modem, ALSO works perfectly.
    Machine3 is a desktop running XP, also WIRELESS to the modem, ALSO works perfectly.
    The world is a happy place......... ISP comes along and says "hey, upgrade to the 7Mbps modem", so I do.......

    And the new modem supports WPA and WPA-2 security (which tells you how old the old one was)......
    Drop it in place, fire it up, set the WPA security and everything is fine.......

    Main machine is happy since it's on a wire.
    Machine2 (laptop) is happy since it supports WPA security. It's 4 feet from the modem.
    Machine3, (ALSO about 4 feet from the modem) after several hours of fruitlessly trying to get it to hook up, DOES NOT support WPA - set the modem to WEP and everything was fine, set to WPA and no connection. Went out on internet and found the site that says Belkin f5d6001 DOES NOT support WPA.......

    OK, off I go to pick up a new PCI wireless card for machine3. Found an inexpensive TrendNet card that supports WPA and put it in..... Says it's connecting to the modem fine, SAYS it's mapping the network drives from Machine1, but it's SLOW........ SLOW, SLOW.... Insists it transmitting and receiving at 54MBps, but opening a mapped directory, if it opens at all, takes 10's of seconds..... LONG TIME... Go back to WEP, still slow. Works fine going out to the Internet through the modem, but talking to Machine1 is SLOW.......

    Dragged machine4 into the mix...... This machine is a dual core, 4GB machine, quite fast, running Vista. Stuck the card in.... And got the dreaded, but apparently widely occurring, "can only get local connection" problem... spent HOURS chasing solutions on the net, none of which worked. Except by dumb luck for a short period I actually had a connection, but it went away at the next reboot..... SO, I dumped Vista and put XP on Machine4... got everything going and the connection is SLOW...... As slow as before.......

    SO, I took the Trendnet card out, and put back the old Belkin card, set the modem down to WEP, and things worked fine again. I keep all the kits on machine1, and the directories where they are is mapped to the other machines so I can install software from 1 location...... Installed software, ran Quicken using the data files from machine1, etc...... Things work fine.

    Put Trendnet card back in machine4, leave it on WEP, and it seems to connect OK, sees machine1, but we're back to SLOW...... And WPA appears to be even SLOWER.........

    As near as I can tell, I'm not recording any errors in the event logs on Machine1 OR Machine4 about the network or data transfer or anything, but I can say that not only is this slow, it loses the connection periodically......

    I'm not going to say it's IMPOSSIBLE, but I'm having a hard time believing a basic network card could have a major problem like this, so I'm asking if there's anything between Windows 7 and XP that'd be involved in this performance issue? I'm presuming it HAS to be the card, but...

    Ideas?
     
  16. Trouble

    Trouble Noob Whisperer

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    Wow, that took a lot of reading only to find that in all probability you've asked and answered your own question in the final sentence. Not that I would suggest that you do this for any length of time but as an experiment can you briefly run your network open, that is without any type of encryption, just to test and see if the performance improves at all on the TrendNet card. There is of course alot of things that can impact wireless networks some can be physical like your cards proximity to the router as well as other wireless devices in the environment, phones, microwaves etc. But I know from experience with some older Linksys devices that encryption can actually reduce there performance dramatically. If you can just try no encryption for a short time and that may provide you with some extra insight into the problem
     
  17. dkperez

    dkperez New Member

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    Tried running totally open too during the whole odyssey. I was changing network cards, machines, and O/S from 7 a.m. yesterday until almost midnight last night. Didn't APPEAR to make any difference.... the Trendnet card just appears to be unusably slow. Again though, it seems to work find when going out to the Internet. Download speed was a respectable 600-650K/sec which is about what I see on the main system.....

    It's just when it has to go through the modem and out to one of the other systems that it drops to a crawl.......

    One thing you made me think of, that I hadn't considered - I'll try going from machine4 with the Trendnet card, to machine2, the laptop... they're both running XP so I may be able to tell if the card is just bad, or if it has something to do with the Windows 7 sharing....... I'll give it a try....
     
  18. dkperez

    dkperez New Member

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    More testing...... Used Netmeter to get speed and another utility to check neighborhood wireless networks.....

    Found out about a half dozen networks in the neighborhood were ALSO using channel 11, so I switched mine to channel 10. That got me from 880KB/s to around 1.1MB/s. Not a big improvement.

    Doesn't appear that EITHER network card has much impact on speed, and the computer they're in has massive horsepower for doing simple file transfers.

    I changed the setting on the modem to 802.11G ONLY from 802.11b or 802.11g to force things to connect at higher speed.... NEITHER card would connect. SO, it appears that whatever I put in this box is going to connect at 802.11b speed, which is about right given the file transfer rate. Even though the system is only 5 feet from the modem and insists the signal strength is excellent, and the speed shows 54mbps.

    SO, bottom line is I don't THINK it's a Windows 7 problem, I think it's a modem/wireless card/cosmic karma problem!
     

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