OMG, imagine...

This is scary ( & tongue in cheek )… I've been discovering how to navigate & find things in W8 and learning I can make my way around in Windows 8 quite nicely & do this much better in the Beta than, in the DP and OMG, imagine... in spite of being w/out a Start Menu... who'd a thunk it, eh? LOL.

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I just wonder what you've been smoking, sniffing, huffing, snorting or shooting ??? Or all of the above. ???

Just because you can find your way through a maze in the dark doesn't mean that the whole world should do it that way. Eh?

What ever happened to the old saying "User Friendly"? That seems to be a verboten term now at Microshaft.

'Build an OS that is as difficult to use as possible and then stuff it down their throats', seems to be the rule of the day now.

I'm just glad that those idiots at MS are not designing our new cars, or we'd have a joystick or push buttons instead of the good old Steering wheel. There are just some things that Should Not be changed, for the safety and well being of the public.


Yep, & lots of folks will take your view & attitude. But, as an IT Pro, I need to get to know this new OS, no matter what. Point was, doing things in it & w/ what's available is actually pretty neat, quite cool, even w/out a traditional Start Menu... that says absolutely nothing as to how the whole world should feel, think or do things. Indeed, many computing devices are already like this... W8 is just falling into step w/ the future of computing. Change is unavoidable & inevitable... & this sort of change really does not undermine the public's safety or well-being... individuals will cope or come to terms w/ things in different ways, to varying degrees & @ their own pace... some will find (new) things 'fun' & exciting, others horrid & that's just how humans are. Regards, Drew

Joe S

Excellent Member
The constant change get to be quite annoying not just in OS but a lot of other things like browsers. Suddenly moving things like bookmarks to the opposite side and not allowing the user to move it back like both IE and Firefox and eliminating functions like backup one page in Yahoo now when backing up may take you more than one step back. It gets quite annoying to have to look and find where they moved something for no real reason just because some over educated douchebag thinks it looks cool.

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Premium Supporter
Yes, there doesn't seem to be any programming sense in merely moving known features around. This has been a syndrome of MS OSs since moving on from XP. But, to watch their own backs, I would have thought it would have been a natural, to put keep the normal menu in the public releases, just to keep the unwashed happy. A glance in any forum will quickly inform you as to public feeling on this. Nothing really wrong with Metro, but for goodness sake, give us a chance to get used to it in easy stages.

What is served by grumbling? Many, may find things fun, easy, convenient, find a few things out over time & find things appealing. But, what is served by grumbling? I've found lots of neat, likable Features, have things arranged is using is comfy, I've discovered some cool paths to things, FILE in Explorer windows is terrific (cmd right there), the Ribbon is great presentation, seeing Messenger conversations w/out needing the conversation window on the screen, the way Search works & applications, setting & more gets displayed, the speed but, even more than that, the ease on resources... there's far more (things & reasons) virtuous & positive than to spend so much negativity over this new design.

Don't make me sorry I wrote this or for expressing a not unique view nor it is expected all people will share the same view or be 'converted'. That is a given.



Essential Member
From my point of view, older users will be discomforted by the absence of the start orb in Windows 8. In reality, it's not gone it's merely been replaced by the metro interface, which is arguably better anyway. The reason people don't like it? People don't like change. It's that simple. Example in case: anytime Facebook has ever changed or added a new feature, people "hate" it. You'll all be using Windows 8 like you grew up with it in a few months.

Since Firefox was already mentioned, I'm going to expound on it for a moment. OK?

In FF 3.6.? all the icons for stop, refresh, Home, etc. were in a nice little group, just to the right of the < and > arrows, on the far left of the tools bar.
Enter FF 10.........Yoiks! The icons are now scattered all across the screen. I hate that! I resist changes that make my life on the computer more difficult. So what to do?

Well I click my mouse in the toolbar and open up "Customize".
Then I drag all those scattered icons down into the customize window.
Then I pick them up (drag n drop) and put them back into the toolbar in the order I want them.
I do the same thing when installing FF for my customers.

There are a couple of icons that really don't need to be there at all, so I just leave them out of the mix.
For those who have no idea what I'm talking about, here's a little pic to clear up the fog.

For those who only use I.E. or something else, you'll have no idea what I'm talking about anyway,
so don't worry about it.

As for the need to have icons on my desktop, I put things there for my use and/or amusement, that
you just can't get on a Metro screen. And since I've been doing this stuff longer than some members
of this forum have been out of diapers, I want to continue doing it. Eh?
That's my desire and my right! For those who think the Metro UI thing is just the cat's meow, all I can
say is "Enjoy".

I know darn well, if some of my old customers bought a new computer and turned it on at home and were,
confronted with the Metro UI with no instructions or explanations, that computer would be back in the box
and back in the store before sundown.

An "IT Pro" probably would not have that problem, but in truth, 99.999% of computer users, worldwide,
are not "IT Pros". The 'new' programmers at MS, are totally ignoring the very people that provided them
with jobs and a pay check.

I love talking with the Computer Tech's of today, like at some of the big box stores. They only know what
is current and have NO History with computers. Start talking to them about DOS and writing batch files and
you will get that 'deer in the headlights' blank stare. It would be amusing if it were not so SAD.

OK.....Rant done!

Y'all have a great day now, Y'hear?

Mitchell, well put. I try in many ways & occasions to speak to the same concept. True, enough, some can't imagine a Metro screen, some can't imagine a dial phone... somehow we managed to use cars even after they took the crank start away from us.


Joe S

Excellent Member
Mitchell, well put. I try in many ways & occasions to speak to the same concept. True, enough, some can't imagine a Metro screen, some can't imagine a dial phone... somehow we managed to use cars even after they took the crank start away from us.

Drew a better analogy would be a car where they moved the shifter, turn signals, brake and gas pedals around. They are all still there you just have to find them and and remember the new hiding place when you are in a hurry.

It's not taking long or much effort to find things are not very well 'hidden', @ all.

Car w/ Crank Start = Start Menu


Senior Member
I'm also starting to find things rather easily. It's starting to grow on me. There are quite a few hidden features, that are not hidden very well. I have found Paul Thurrott's Win 8 Supersite a great site to open up some of these hidden features.

The word empathy comes to mind, Ted :joyous:

Is this in WLM, Mike? Or the Mail App?


PS: it grows on you & quickly :joyous:

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Essential Member
Premium Supporter
He is talking about the mail app. I was logged in with my Email address, so the problem did not arise until I tried to put in a second pop address. I chichened out and installed Live Mail, with which I am familiar and Works like a charm (no pun!)

Yeah, some of the Apps are still a bit rough around the edges, right now. & yea, WLM is darn fine so, cool


Noob Whisperer
The other thing is that once I'm in the mail app in Windows 8 I can't figure out any way to get out of it.
Puzzled me for a long time too Mike.
Just move your mouse cursor to the top (way top) of any metro app you have running on your screen. Click and drag it off the screen at the bottom. You will see it turn into a large thumbnail looking thing and when you release it it should close.
Also mouse hover near top left of screen will produce "Switcher" moving it down vertically should produce a tab like feature where you should be able to right click running apps and select close.

For those who used Outlook Express 6 in XP and want to still get that effect in Windows 7 (which I'm sure will be around for quite a while) I've given the path to activate Windows Mail in Win-7, many times already. But I'll not take up space here, going through that again, other than to say if someone wants help with that, just PM me and I'll be glad to help.

I too would use Thunderbird for my email program if I were to have to use Windows 8.

At least for a GMail account, Thunderbird almost sets itself up automatically. Very simple.

Cheers mates!

The Doctor :cool:

There are 3 ways to close an App or get to Desktop from an App.

1. Move cursor to top-left, can scroll through running Apps & Rt Clk on 1 to get Close

2. @ anytime, from anywhere WinKey + D goes to Desktop

3. Pull the App to the bottom of the screen

Here's the Shortcuts & Nav tips for your future reference


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