Startup order

Discussion in 'Windows 7 Help and Support' started by Archaeopteryx, Oct 27, 2013.

  1. Archaeopteryx

    Archaeopteryx Well-Known Member

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    Hi

    I've tried unsuccessfully to find this topic on your forums, so I'm very sorry if this is a repeat of any previous post. I have also scoured the internet for a satisfactory response, but like many technical matters advice is diverse and sometimes contradictory.

    In order to approach this as 'scientifically' as possible, I suppose there are two questions I need ask
    • On startup, are the icons that appear in the notification area of the Taskbar really appearing in the actual order of their loading?
    • Is there any safe (and relatively easy!) way to change the order of loading? Some of the methods I have seen look a little intimidating!
    I ask for only one reason. Kaspersky Antivirus is the last icon to appear (and by several seconds) and this does worry me from a security point of view.

    Thanks in advance for any help and my apologies again if this topic has been covered elsewhere
     
  2. bassfisher6522

    bassfisher6522 Essential Member

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    Question 1.....No.
    Question 2.....No.

    If I were to guess, I'd say there were loading according to there file size. The smaller ones first.
     
    #2 bassfisher6522, Oct 27, 2013
    Last edited: Oct 27, 2013
  3. Archaeopteryx

    Archaeopteryx Well-Known Member

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    Many thanks for your reply bassfisher6522

    Your response to question two is a little lacking as you do not address my second question fully. I have read articles which make it perfectly clear that it is indeed possible to change the order of items at startup, so I am unclear as to whether your resounding 'No' is directed at whether it is - not possible, not easy or not safe!

    Please clarify!
     
  4. Saltgrass

    Saltgrass Excellent Member
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    The anti-virus may take longer because it is busy during the initial desktop phase. If you notice, the flag (action center) also takes a while to show up. I would be willing to bet Kaspersky is active and protecting your system.

    If you wanted to track what was happening on your system and when, you could download and use Process Monitor from SysInternals (Microsoft) and set it to watch the boot through the initial Desktop startup. I have not tried this in a Secure Boot situation, so not completely sure it would operate under those circumstances.
     
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  5. Archaeopteryx

    Archaeopteryx Well-Known Member

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    Hi Saltgrass. Thank you - I'll look at that :)

    POSTSCRIPT: As Saltgrass rightly infers, I am essentially hoping Kaspersky is working from the word go
     
  6. BurrWalnut

    BurrWalnut Extraordinary Member

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    This is the startup sequence of the major registry keys, starting immediately after bootmgr has been read and ending with the program shortcut entries in the two Startup folders.

    1. HKLM\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Control\Session Manager\BootExecute. This can include instructions to schedule the running of chkdsk but not user programs.
    2. Services start next, followed by the RunServicesOnce and RunServices registry keys (if present)
    3. User then logs on to the system
    4. HKLM\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows NT\CurrentVersion\Winlogon\UserInit. This points to the program C:\WINDOWS\system32\userinit.exe and the entry ends with a comma. Other programs can be started from this key by appending them and separating them with a comma (a favourite hiding place for malware).
    5. HKLM\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows NT\CurrentVersion\Winlogon\Shell. This should contain just one entry, explorer.exe.
    6. Program entries in these 2 registry keys for ALL USERS start next:
    HKLM\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\Run and \RunOnce
    7. Program entries in these 2 registry keys for CURRENT USER start next:
    HKCU\Software\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\Run and \RunOnce
    8. Programs in the Startup Folders of All Users and Current User are started last of all.

    Important programs like antivirus and firewall start early in the sequence as Services (number 2 above). The icons that appear in the Notification Area (bottom right of the screen) are just their user interfaces, i.e. options and preferences.

    The additional locations for 32-bit software in a 64-bit computer are HKLM\SOFTWARE\Wow6432Node and HKCU\Software\Wow6432Node.
     
    #6 BurrWalnut, Oct 27, 2013
    Last edited: Oct 29, 2013
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  7. badrobot

    badrobot Senior Member

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    Antivirus is meant to protect you when you connect to the internet. So, I don't think you should worry about it on startup.
     
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  8. patcooke

    patcooke Microsoft MVP
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    Autoruns (free from MS) will give you a detailed picture of startup items but I rather fancy the appearance of a taskbar icon is more likely to indicate that the startup of that particular item has completed rather than just started so may or may not relate to startup sequence. I would be surprised though if the authors of antivirus software were not ensuring that protection was in place before routines giving access to the machine were running. As you have observed, it would represent an all too obvious security issue.
     
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  9. Archaeopteryx

    Archaeopteryx Well-Known Member

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    Thanks everyone. That's what worries me. Other software was very evidently connecting to the internet before Kaspersky's 'system protected' popped up
     
  10. seekermeister

    seekermeister Honorable Member

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    I also run Kaspersky Pure 3, and have noticed the delayed appearance of the tray icon, but by monitoring CPU activity on CoreTemp, and checking the same in the Windows Resource Monitor, I have determined that Kaspersky is actually working long before the icon appears. My concern is just the opposite of your's because, because I would prefer to delay it's startup more, so that it doesn't slow down the loading of the other programs I have set to run at startup.

    EDIT: I don't think that the delayed appearance of the icon means that there is a gap in Kaspersky's protection, I think that the delay is reflecting the interval during which it is doing it's startup scan.

    EDIT 2: You only mention Kaspersky AV, which is not a firewall. It is the firewall's function to protect your computer from incoming and outgoing malware. The AV is only for detecting and possibly eliminating any infections already in your system.
     
    #10 seekermeister, Oct 27, 2013
    Last edited: Oct 27, 2013
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  11. Pauli

    Pauli Extraordinary Member
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    A program Startup Delayer is available, http://www.snapfiles.com/get/startdelay.html, I used it when I had a lower end computer. It worked fine, has good ratings, and gives you practically total control over startup order, check the reviews. You can delay start of programs you find "not so necessary" - thus enabling the ones you want to start, to start immediately.

    But remember, everything messing with essential Windows functions can be risky. And changing startup times may prolong the overall startup time.

    Snapfiles is a trustworthy download place, they test the stuff they offer. I have no financial or other connections to them, just to mention.

    Best of all. :)
     
    #11 Pauli, Oct 27, 2013
    Last edited: Oct 27, 2013
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  12. Archaeopteryx

    Archaeopteryx Well-Known Member

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    Thanks seekermeister and Pauli. It's great to have such a responsive group!

    Kaspersky also includes the 'Network Monitor' which controls all ingoing and outgoing 'traffic'. I have mine set to quite a stringent level and it is my hope that this kicks in from the very start.

    Just to illustrate precisely why I am concerned - I had some simple trial software which, as an experiment, I had set to 'phone home' by checking for updates immediately as it opened at startup. I received an 'unregistered version' warning from this software much earlier than Kaspersky's 'protected' popup appeared. The same software was blocked when it opened up when Kaspersky was up and running.

    I am a reasonably experienced PC and Mac user but not a security expert. It worries me as to what might be leaking in and out. Am I right to be concerned?

    Thanks to all again :)
     
  13. Pauli

    Pauli Extraordinary Member
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    The only way to be truly certain about your computer is not to start it. Plug it off, and throw it in the sea! That way you can be sure there is nothing harmful.

    More practical, don't have ANY programs automatically update, not even Windows. Have Windows inform you about updates, but leave the decision to yourself. About other programs, doesn't concern drivers, http://www.snapfiles.com/get/secunia.html is quite recommendable. But don't have it on anything higher than info or recommendation.

    The increasing problem with both freeware and paid for programs is, they come with more and more attachments. I recall it was Mike Hawthorn, a veteran here, who wrote he had installed Google Chrome's latest version, and being very careful not to get anything extra... he got a true handful of stuff he never intended to get.

    "Simple trial software" as you name them, may well be like many sellers of used cars. Can you trust them? Technology changes, but does man change? Business is business, and it's not always that pure and clean. :scratch:
     
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  14. Archaeopteryx

    Archaeopteryx Well-Known Member

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    Thanks Pauli :)

    Believe me, I have days when I could quite comfortably just throw it all into the sea, but that's usually down to clients!

    I remember it was you who also advised messing with essential Windows functions can be risky

    On balance, I think I should perhaps leave well alone and just use common sense when installing any kind of software. It always comes with baggage.

    Thanks to all who have given me the benefit of their own experience and knowledge. I wouldn't necessarily want to end the thread and slam the door shut in the face of any other assistance though!
     
  15. seekermeister

    seekermeister Honorable Member

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    Archaeopteryx,

    I'm no expert on Kaspersky, because I'm a fairly new user myself, but when you say that it has a Network Monitor, it sounds more as though you have Kaspersky Internet Security or Pure, because from what I see in the features for the AV, I see nothing that looks like anything that will block either incoming or outgoing data, except in very specific situations.

    http://usa.kaspersky.com/products-services/home-computer-security/anti-virus?domain=kaspersky.com

    You're certain that it is just the AV that you have?
     
    #15 seekermeister, Oct 28, 2013
    Last edited: Oct 28, 2013
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  16. seekermeister

    seekermeister Honorable Member

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    Pauli,

    I guess I have no option other than taking the risk, because as far as I live from any sea, no one could throw a computer that far.
     
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  17. Archaeopteryx

    Archaeopteryx Well-Known Member

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    Hi seekermeister :)

    I'm sorry for the confusion - I was lazy in abbreviating the product's name. Yes, it's actually Kaspersky Internet Security 2013 I'm running.

    I apologise for that mate - my bad :(
     

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