Connecting to homegroup PC's when starting up with revovery disc

Discussion in 'Windows 10 Networking' started by Jaap Verhage, Jul 1, 2016.

  1. Jaap Verhage

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2016
    Messages:
    42
    Likes Received:
    0
    Hello everyone,

    lately, for the first time in my life :) , Ï've started making backups of the three PC's I have. I make a backup of one of the PC's to the hard disk of one of the other two; all three are in a homegroup. Under Windows 7, I've noticed that, if I start up one of the PC's with a recovery disc, I can't connect that PC to a PC in the homegroup. However, I make backups for emergency situations just like this. My question is: is there a way in Windows 10 (or 7) to access a backup on a PC in your homegroup when starting up the backed-up PC with a recovery disc?

    Thanks for your time and trouble.

    Regards, Jaap.
     
  2. ussnorway

    ussnorway Windows Forum Team
    Staff Member Premium Supporter

    Joined:
    May 22, 2012
    Messages:
    2,530
    Likes Received:
    314
    grab your self a nas box and plug it into the router then every system also on that router (lan or wifi) can reach it... for systems outside the network you download the backup file to a local folder frist then boot your backup.
     
  3. Jaap Verhage

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2016
    Messages:
    42
    Likes Received:
    0
    Thanks for replying! However, I'd like to do this without a NAS, just with a PC in my homegroup. The question is: is that possible?
     
  4. BIGBEARJEDI

    BIGBEARJEDI Honorable Member
    Premium Supporter

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2013
    Messages:
    1,778
    Likes Received:
    214
    It depends. What backup software was your recovery disc made from? The Microsoft built-in Recovery program or 3rd party software? If so, which software?

    By the way, relying on a network share that's a peer-to-peer based and not a server-based folder or mapped drive is not the most reliable place to store image backups.:ohno: I prefer to go with a usb connected external hard drive, or NAS setup as Norway mentioned. It's always best to use a dedicated external drive or drives that don't live on other computers, since if any of those computers experience a windows or hard drive crash, you just lost your restore capability on at least 1 or 2 of your other computers.:headache: I know of no one that does this, so I can't say impossible but I haven't personally tried it and I do a lot of networking stuff. Perhaps some of our other volunteers or Admins have tried this and can give you a more precise answer. If I have to test it, it will take a while and I can get back to you when I finish some other projects I'm currently working on for other users here.

    Knowing what backup software you are using will help, so we will need to know that at a minimum.

    Best,
    <<<BIGBEARJEDI>>> :tribal:
     
  5. Jaap Verhage

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2016
    Messages:
    42
    Likes Received:
    0
    Hello BigBearJedi,

    thanks for replying. I can imagine this is not the most trustworthy way to do it, but it would still be nice if it worked. The recovery disc I mentioned was made with the "Microsoft built-in Recovery program", to quote you :) . The backup software used is also the built-in Windows variety. It took me the best part of last weekend to figure out how I could get that working with another homegroup-PC as the target. Turns out you have to create a user with admin privileges and a password on the target PC; with that, you can connect to the target PC and make your backup. So now the recovery part in case of an emergency still remains to be solved. If you could find the time to look into this, I would be grateful.

    Regards, Jaap.
     
  6. bochane

    bochane Honorable Member

    Joined:
    Oct 18, 2012
    Messages:
    643
    Likes Received:
    47
    Goede dag Jaap,

    In addition to the previous answers, backups should be saved off-line!! Think what happens if your PC gets encrypted, your backups should be in a safe place!!
    Furthermore saving an image backup of every system would come in handy, you won't have to re-install Windows, just roll back your image. You can use the good old W7 image backup for this (or some third party software). That also means that you need for every computer a bootable repair CD and also that you have your image on a place reachable from your repair CD. You need to check this by booting up the repair CD.

    Just some thoughts,
    Henk
     
  7. ussnorway

    ussnorway Windows Forum Team
    Staff Member Premium Supporter

    Joined:
    May 22, 2012
    Messages:
    2,530
    Likes Received:
    314
    the homegroup knows you changed the system and is (correctly) asking you to confirm sercurity... the only workaround I'm aware of that doesn't criple your network defences is using an outside host (i.e, outside the windows software not outside the network it self) and the basic options of NAS or EX-USB have already been covered.

    you could build your own V-network share using something like VM-ware workstation and that works because the actual homegroup settings are also stored on the V-hdd so windows recognises it at boot time... stays happy but most people don't need this type of system and its not exactly muppet friendly to set up.
     
  8. Jaap Verhage

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2016
    Messages:
    42
    Likes Received:
    0
    Hallo Henk,

    thanks for sharing those thoughts :) . What you are proposing about the repair CD's is just what I am planning to do, but then I first need to figure out a way to reach the homegroup PC with the backup on it after having started up a PC in sore need of that backup with it's repair disc.
    This was and still is my original question. I know a NAS would probably be a simpler way to do it, but I want to try out this way.

    Regards, Jaap. From your salutation I gather we're fellow Dutchmen :) .
     
  9. Jaap Verhage

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2016
    Messages:
    42
    Likes Received:
    0
    Hi ussnorway,

    thanks for replying. However, for the time being I'm going to stick to my original question.

    Regards, Jaap.
     
  10. Neemobeer

    Neemobeer Windows Forum Team
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2015
    Messages:
    2,387
    Likes Received:
    360
    The recovery disc has limited networking capabilities. It doesn't contain the necessary components to connect to a homegroup.
     
  11. Jaap Verhage

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2016
    Messages:
    42
    Likes Received:
    0
    Thanks for replying, Neemobeer. So that would mean that my little plan won't work. Shame.

    Regards, Jaap.
     
  12. Jaap Verhage

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2016
    Messages:
    42
    Likes Received:
    0
    Hello everyone,

    about a month ago, I asked the above question. Numerous people have given advice. I've finally reached a way of doing what I wanted to do after many tries. This is wat I've done to get there.

    I've endlessly tried to reach PCs in my homegroup with different kinds of startup disks and startup USBs. No luck. So I finally gave in and gave that up. Next, I noticed I had an enclosure for a hard disk lying around, i.e., to make an internal hard disk external. So one of the disks in one of the PCs, a 1 TB Hitachi Deskstar, went into the external casing. I tried hooking that up to my modem/router, which turned out to have a USB port. The plan was to put the backups of all three PCs in the network on that disk and then to unplug it from the modem/router and plug it into the USB port of a crashed PC in need of a system restore. The plan was allright, but several different startup disks and startup USBs didn't "see" the disk when hooked up to a USB port of one of my PCs. It seems it needs a driver or two which aren't loaded when booting up from a recovery medium. The recovery USB made by Qiling Disk Master (free backup software) came closest to working; it sometimes recognized the disk, sometimes not. So this plan didn't work either, at least not reliably. Then, while cleaning out my apartment for the first time in years, I found a Samsung 300 GB portable harddisk. This one is meant to be in its enclosure; it was sold that way. And, lo and behold… it's recognized by each and every boot medium I tried. Yes! :up:

    So the emergency plan now runs as follows: my two desktops have two disks each, say "system" and "data". They back up their system image to their second disk via Windows Backup. This backup is "recognized" for what it is when booting up from a recovery medium, e.g. a Windows recovery USB, as long as it's in the root directory of the second disk. This means that, when I make a backup to a folder of my choice, I have to take care to copy the result to the root of the second disk.
    My laptop has only one disk, so I back that up to one of the desktops in the network with Windows Backup as well. And, if ever the laptop's Windows considers having served me long enough and stops working, I'll copy the latest backup of the laptop from the desktop where it resides to the root of the portable Samsung, hook that up to the laptop, boot the laptop from a recovery medium and restore the system. I've not tested this really, i.e. by restoring a healthy system (that scares me too much in case it goes wrong), but the backup is at least recognized by Windows Backup which, interestedly asks me if maybe I want to do a system restore? That's good enough for me for now.

    So, thanks for all the advice you gave me. :worship: The final plan is partly based on that advice, and partly on my own ideas. I consider the problem solved - for now.

    Regards, Jaap.
     
  13. bochane

    bochane Honorable Member

    Joined:
    Oct 18, 2012
    Messages:
    643
    Likes Received:
    47
    Dag Jaap,

    Good to hear you solved it!

    Reading through your previous post, it came to my mind that a NAS (Network Attached Storage - like Synology) could do the same thing in a much easier way. Maybe a consideration for next time, your problem is solved now.

    Goed weekend,
    Henk
     
  14. Jaap Verhage

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2016
    Messages:
    42
    Likes Received:
    0
    Hallo Henk,

    thanks for thinking along with me. At first sight, you might indeed think that a NAS would be the obvious solution. However, I'm in doubt whether a NAS would be "seen" by a PC that boots from a recovery medium. If not, then one would still need an external harddisk that could be attached to the PC via a USB port.

    Regards, Jaap.

    For non-Dutch readers: the "a" in the word "Hallo" above is not a typo; it's the way "Hello" is spelled in Dutch. :cool:
     
  15. bochane

    bochane Honorable Member

    Joined:
    Oct 18, 2012
    Messages:
    643
    Likes Received:
    47
    If an online PC can be seen by a recovery disk then a NAS can also be seen!
     
  16. Jaap Verhage

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2016
    Messages:
    42
    Likes Received:
    0
    But that's just the point, Henk, online PCs are not seen by a PC booted from a recovery medium! As Neemobeer pointed out earlier in this thread: "The recovery disc has limited networking capabilities. It doesn't contain the necessary components to connect to a homegroup." :(
     
  17. Neemobeer

    Neemobeer Windows Forum Team
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2015
    Messages:
    2,387
    Likes Received:
    360
    After revisiting this post, in the generic state the recovery media can't see the homegroup; however, it may be possible to install network drivers and the necessary features into a WinRM.wim file which could be then used to create a bootable recovery media. Maybe I will have to play around with this when I get home.
     
  18. bochane

    bochane Honorable Member

    Joined:
    Oct 18, 2012
    Messages:
    643
    Likes Received:
    47
    Think the other way around: you can easily put your all your documents, pictures on a NAS and just mount that network share or use cloud features of some types of NAS's and backup the NAS!
    Besides, cannot W10 use a network location for its imagebackup or am I wrong?

    But who cares for this moment your problem is solved.
     
  19. ussnorway

    ussnorway Windows Forum Team
    Staff Member Premium Supporter

    Joined:
    May 22, 2012
    Messages:
    2,530
    Likes Received:
    314
    you are not wrong bochane a nas is the normal backup option for recovery images (what I use at home and work) and for 90% of people the best way to go.

    a homegroup is an extra layer of security over what a nornal nas is and the fact you can't see inside the homegroup at boot time does not necessary make the nas unreachable... this is all pointless because the guy has his problem sorted
     
  20. Jaap Verhage

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2016
    Messages:
    42
    Likes Received:
    0
    Hello Neemobeer, I'll be very interested in the outcome!
     

Share This Page

Loading...