Windows 10 Windows Pro Update Notify but don't Download and Install Missing

Discussion in 'Windows 10 Help and Support' started by Manotee, Aug 10, 2016.

  1. Manotee

    Manotee Active Member

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    I just ran Windows Update on my Windows 10 Pro system and installed Cumulative Update for Windows 10 Version 1607 for x64-based Systems (KB3176495). When I look at Windows Update I now see my option as automatically download and install, where I had set it to notify but don't download and install.

    If I select Advanced Options, I no longer see the option to change how updates are installed.

    Did Cumulative Update for Windows 10 Version 1607 for x64-based Systems (KB3176495) remove this option? If the notify but don't download and install option has been removed, may I uninstall KB3176495 and get it back? Has my Pro upgrade somehow been reverted back to Home?

    I paid to upgrade to Pro just to get the ability to control when Windows 10 will install updates. I refuse to run Windows 10 without this option.

    I am willing to buy a copy of Windows 7 Professional 64 bit if necessary to get a Windows system for which I can control updates.
     
  2. BIGBEARJEDI

    BIGBEARJEDI Honorable Member
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    Hi and welcome to the forum :up:
    This is a complex issue as there were some changes in the Anniversary Update releases. There are 3 different versions and it doesn't appear you have the latest. Try using the <windows+logo-key+R> command and type in "WINVER", and it will return the exact version and build number. The latest is v1607 b14393.10. Anything less than that you may need to update your computer further.

    There are several posts that may help you here:
    1.) This is the overall Anniversary Update post from our Admin-Owner on getting the Anniversary Update b14393.5. Later on in this post the newer update for b14393.10 is also posted. Here's that link: Windows 10 - Download Windows 10 Build 14393.10 Anniversary Update
    2.) This next link is also referenced in the Anniversary Update, and explains that some options such as the GPO options were removed from W10 Pro as you suspected, but we think this may be an incomplete assessment of all the changes. Here's that link: Microsoft removes policies from Windows 10 Pro - gHacks Tech News
    3.) Finally take a look at this link which gives you the direct download links to the b14395.10 ISO file Anniversary Update here: Microsoft Update Catalog

    Regarding your other comments, no, Pro Upgrade has not been downgraded to Home as far as we know about. The comment you make about controlling the updates is controlled in a new W10 feature which came out early this year in 2016, called WUDO. And you are incorrect in asserting that it does not work in W10 Pro. I have Pro installed on 3 of my 5 W10 machines, and I can make the changes to get updates, or disable the updates completely, or adjust them to getting them from other machines on my home network or get them from other machines on my home network AND from random computers on the Internet. It sounds like you may need to do another W10 Pro clean install from the sources I listed above, which are the only reliable ones I've seen. You could also have hardware problems that could cause this sort of problem on your machine that would keep this option from working correctly, such as failed RAM sticks or Hard Drive. Have you fully tested your RAM sticks on the computer running the W10 Pro and the Hard Drive (e.g: MEMTEST & SEATOOLS)?? Have you tried installing on a different machine? Different machines with different hardware such as a desktop PC and a laptop can produce different results.

    I would make sure that you have the correct latest version of the Anniversary Update installed, v1607 b14393.10, reinstall if necessary, and you should get all the WUDO options I mentioned. If not, you need to test your hardware and repeat. Several of us are getting this option across multiple machines including machines built back 10 years old (XP-era machines). You should also consider replacing your hard drive, repeating the clean install of W10 Pro on that drive even if it passes Diag testing. If the problem persists you should consider testing on a different computer altogether (preferably a modern computer made in 2009 or after).:nerdie:

    A worthwhile note here is that the Anniversary Update has been confirmed to be flawed by several of us who have done extensive testing on v1607, but Microsoft has not yet acknowledged this or given us an ETA on a fix. If you read through all the linked threads you can view the discussion in gory detail. The problem you mention however, is a problem specific to your computer, either failed install or failed hardware or both.o_O

    Best of luck,:encouragement:
    <<<BIGBEARJEDI>>>
     
  3. Manotee

    Manotee Active Member

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    I used WINVER and the following was returned: Version 1607 (OS Build 14393.51). Google implies this is the latest Anniversary upgrade for my PC.

    My PC is barely a year old, a 2015 ThinkPad X250. Running the installed hardware scan shows no errors. There should be no hardware problem associated with the loss of Windows Update scheduling control.

    Looking at Windows Update Advanced Options, I no longer have the option for any control as to when updates will be installed. It looks like my only option is to turn off Windows Update, and I am not certain I can even do that.

    It looks like the only way to get Windows Update control (and other GPO features) back is to go to Windows 10 Enterprise, and that requires at least a 5 license package. Are there 4 more dissatisfied 10 Pro users willing to join me in getting and sharing an Enterprise multi-license package?
     
  4. Manotee

    Manotee Active Member

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    Although I am used to Microsoft changing or removing features and functions for no logical reason, removing GPO from Pro seems like an especially silly action. I made it clear when I purchased Pro I only wanted the ability to control when updates were installed. I didn't want to run a full system backup while updates were being installed, nor shutdown my PC in the middle of an update.

    By removing GPO from Pro, Microsoft has in effect returned me to Windows 10 Home usage without offering to refund my purchase price for Pro.

    Microsoft has my $100 for Pro, and I am back to Home.

    I plan to request a refund for Pro since the only function I wanted has been removed, or a free upgrade to Enterprise so I can get the control back for Update. In the meantime I plan to turn Update completely off and reactivate it only when I am prepared to install updates.

    Although I was using the notify option, I regularly installed updates (usually weekly or more often). It wasn't that I didn't want to update, I only wanted to update when it was convenient for me to do the update. The only way I have now to control when updates are installed is to turn Update off.

    I am also considering purchasing Windows 7 Pro on the web and installing it. My wife uses Windows 7 Pro on her PC and it seems like a very good system. It still supports GPO for Update.
     
  5. ussnorway

    ussnorway Windows Forum Team
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    any version of windows can have updates disabled from the services tab to stop unwanted build changes.

    you need admin rights and also have to disable recovery to stop it turning itself back on without permission... when you want updates set the process back to manual and hit start.

    p.s, all apps from the microsoft store are tech updates so you would temp need this service back on to download them

    to be clear, not saying its best option but I use it.
    Screenshot (56).
    Screenshot (57).
     
  6. Neemobeer

    Neemobeer Windows Forum Team
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    There was actually an update the broken some of the GPO settings. You may need to re-apply the GPOs. If that doesn't work and I can look for the fix.
     
  7. Manotee

    Manotee Active Member

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    Thanks for all the support and suggestions.

    I have gone backlevel using Settings/Restore and am back at build 1511. I now have Notify back and have selected Defer upgrades. I do not plan to celebrate the Windows 10 Anniversary until I am assured GPO and Notify are supported in Windows 10 Pro.

    From my perspective as a now retired IT specialist for 43 years in many roles including application programmer, system programmer, IBM System Engineer and finally a Software Developer in the IBM Software Division, I find the removal of the GPO function in Windows 10 Pro an insult, and if I were in MS management making this decision I would be embarrassed.

    I understand the desire on the part of MS to have Windows updates installed in a timely manner. But as a reasonably intelligent customer who paid for the ability to schedule updates at a time convenient for me, I feel like MS has stolen the money I paid in good faith for the ability to schedule Windows Updates via 10 Pro. I made it clear when I contacted the MS store to purchase Pro, my only reason was to use GPO to schedule Updates. This function was clearly advertised as available in Pro, and I depended upon the integrity of MS to believe I was buying a permanent function. I should have known better.

    When I went to Windows 10 Home, I was surprised by the complete lack of notification of the installation of updates. Not only was the ability to schedule updates was missing, so was any indication that an update was in progress. I found when I performing a backup, suddenly I would be notified a restart was necessary to install updates. My fear was the backup would have the update only partially installed, depending upon when certain files were backed up. I would also find as I was shutting down my system an update was in progress. What would the effect of the shutdown have on the backup? Would I have problems if I tried to recover a backup that occurred during an update. After shutting down during an update would I have a problem with startup or would the update only be partially installed?

    I didn't want to have these insecurities, so scheduling Updates was a serious issue with me. I felt the $106.99 for Pro was a good price to pay for peace of mind.

    Now I find MS has decided my peace of mind has no value at all, and the money I paid to get this peace of mind is lost. MS refused to refund my purchase price, so I had to find some other way to get back this peace of mind.

    Perhaps I would have had peace of mind if MS had issued a guarantee that your system would be safe if an update was done during a backup or a shutdown. Not only have I not heard any such guarantee, I would be surprised if MS felt such a guarantee were possible. Since there is no such guarantee, I plan to stay on build 1511 until I have a way t support the Notify in my Windows 10 Pro system.

    I fully expect MS to reconsider their unfortunate decision to remove GPO from Pro and add the function back. As an option, offer Enterprise or Education product activation for free for customers who paid for GPO in 10 Pro and refuse to install any Windows 10 upgrades until Notify becomes available.

    I would appreciate comments from other Pro level customers on the removal of GPO.
     
  8. Manotee

    Manotee Active Member

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    The more I think about Microsoft deciding to remove a feature from 10 Pro that was available at the time of the sale, I wonder if this situation violates the conditions of sale?

    What if I bought a car that had ABS and Traction Control on the window sticker when I bought it, but when I took it in for service and the dealer applied the latest firmware update and ABS and Traction Control were disabled.

    The serious of the change is not comparable, but the situation is the same. I paid for a feature or function and it was removed without my consent.

    Having been a Software Developer for IBM, I never saw a function or feature removed from a delivered product. With the next release of a product, such as Windows 11, a feature might be removed to be replaced by a newer feature that allows the same function. But I paid for GPO in 10 Pro, and I expect GPO to remain in 10 Pro.

    I am wondering if this warrants letters to the Attorney General of North Carolina (where I installed the product) and Washington (where the product was sold) to see if this action by Microsoft violates state law.
     
  9. Neemobeer

    Neemobeer Windows Forum Team
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    GPO is still present in Windows 10.
     
  10. ussnorway

    ussnorway Windows Forum Team
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    Microsoft does not give two hoots about the attorney general but if Trump gets in perhaps he will build a wall?

    in any event features | functions are changed or removed from windows all the time and if you don't like that you can take control of the system to force updates back into the box so no puppies got harmed in the making of this senario.
     
  11. Manotee

    Manotee Active Member

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    I have searched the web and it seems GPO is still somewhat active but severely eviscerated.

    I cannot find any specific reference to GPO no longer supporting the gpedit.msc Windows Update policy, specifically the ability to set the option to "Notify for Downloads and Notify for Install", but I just installed the Anniversary upgrade again and dug further to see I could see what is happening.

    If I use gpedit I can check the Configure Automatic Updates policy and find is still set to 2, Notify for download and install. But when I start Windows Update under Settings, the old disclaimer that certain options may be set by policy is gone and the box that showed Notify was set is also gone.

    I plan to restore back to Build 1511 tomorrow, but I am tired from my activities today, including working on this issue, so I will try to get some sleep and start again tomorrow. I backed up my system before reinstalling the Anniversary upgrade, so I can do a control panel restore back to the 1511 Build, with a fallback to restoring my backup if I have problems.

    In the mean time I have set Windows Update Defer on, and disabled Windows Update.

    I am frustrated with Microsoft and Windows Update with Windows 10 Home and Pro. It has changed significantly, but not better, from XP and 7 Pro.

    As a reasonably experienced user, I like to have a modicum of control over when changes are made to my system. In prior Windows, there used to be a balloon popup to notify you Updates were available, and another popup telling you Update were being installed. The default now is to keep you in the dark and update on the sly. I still get an uncomfortable feeling when I realize updates are being installed during a backup or a PC shutdown. I cannot be certain the backup will be reliable, or will be able to start my system after the shutdown.

    I think my needs for control are reasonable, so I think Microsoft forcing updates on me at any time is unreasonable. I understand the need to install security updates and would install them quickly after being notified some were available. But I would defer installation if doing a backup or shutting down my PC for the day.

    I understand the risk of delaying critical updates, but by using the Notify option I accept the associated risk.

    As I mentioned earlier, I will return to Build 1511 so I can control the few updates I will install. I will also seriously consider buying a copy of the Windows 7 Pro DVD online and go back to the tried and true.
     
  12. ussnorway

    ussnorway Windows Forum Team
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    totally agree with you and I've noticed software developers dropping support for wx BECAUSE microsoft policy makes it impossible to say their product works on it... this issue is a big deal breaker for many people but Microsoft says thats what is best for us all and is not entering into any other debate.

    p.s, fyi if you did not do a fresh install then you get 10 days to roll back
     
  13. davehc

    davehc Microsoft MVP
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    With respect, you are floggng a dead horse . None (including me), ever bothers to read the small print. In this case the Eula.

    First error, is to think you have bought the software. You have not. You have licensed the OS, not bought it. I would imagine IBM have the same policy, but I have no knowledge of which software you refer to.
    As it states in the Eula, when you install the software, you have agreed to the terms, which includes the right of MS to remove or add anything which is regarded , by them, as malicious. I understand that they even have the right to insert script in the forced updates, which can examine your OS for legitimacy
    On forums such as these, we are constantly treading on the edges of the Eula, in making suggestions for hacking or altering portions of the OS, in order to make it run to our satisfaction. To give Microsoft credit, they have a very tolerant regard towards these practises. (Or are too busy to notice - lol)
    They are also quite emphatic in their statement that, if you are dissatisfied in anyway with the rules, you must uninstall the OS/software.
     
    #13 davehc, Aug 14, 2016
    Last edited: Aug 14, 2016
  14. Neemobeer

    Neemobeer Windows Forum Team
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    All the GPOs for Windows updates that have been there since XP are all still there and work as intended.
     
    davehc likes this.
  15. astroroxy

    astroroxy Well-Known Member

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    I have the Windows 10 Anniversary Update and the group policy to not download updates and to notify still works. It may not say it in Windows Update, but I still get notifications when there are updates and they don't automatically download or install without me actually clicking on the download button on Windows Update. I also have Windows 10 Pro.

    Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk
     
  16. Manotee

    Manotee Active Member

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    I have installed the latest Anniversary upgrade (V1607 B14393.53) twice, and neither time did it acknowledge the gpedit Windows Update Configure Automatic Updates option 2 - Notify for download and notify for install. I checked the option using gpedit and it was set, but not acknowledged.

    I ran Lenovo ThinkPad diagnostics on my 2015 ThinkPad X250 and no errors were detected.

    It may very well be this level is recognizing the option but not documenting it in the Windows Update panel. If this is the case, the fact the option is not acknowledged in the Update panel is another confirmation of the lack of professionalism of the application design process for Microsoft. I expect better from any application developer, even Microsoft (of whom I have little confidence and low expectations).

    Windows Update in Windows 10 is an over simplification of the process in Window 7 and XP, much biased in the favor of Microsoft. I miss the control I had in XP and 7, and have no hope Microsoft will ever make Update as customer usable in Windows 10 as it was in the past.

    I have three options
    1. Use Windows 10 Pro at Build 1511 where Update acknowledges and seems to honor the “Notify” option. Set Update Defer on and install only security updates.
    2. Use Windows 10 Pro at the latest build levels where “Notify” is not acknowledged and may or not be honored. With the lack of acknowledgement, I can never be certain whether future upgrades to Windows 10 Pro will honor the option.
    3. Buy Windows 7 Pro on the web and install on my ThinkPad.
    None of these options is optimal. Running at Build 1511 I may miss out on improvements in Windows 10, but I use very few of those that are available at 1511, much less newer Builds. Running at the latest level gives me a sense of dread, always afraid an unscheduled update will put me at risk with backup or restart/shutdown. Windows 7 Pro eliminates all Windows 10 enhancements, but gives me total control over the Update process.

    I sometimes wish I weren’t stuck using Windows, and think about going Apple Mac. One thing is keeping me from doing that. My wife and I both still use Lotus SmartSuite (WordPro) and as long as we can install and run it on our PCs (works on 7 and 10), we are stuck with Windows.

    My wife also has a new Lenovo PC, but this one was ordered Windows 10 Pro capable, but downlevel to Windows 7 Pro. It runs well, and Updates are easy to control. Her experience makes a decision to downlevel my ThinkPad to 7 Pro possible, perhaps preferable.
     
  17. Neemobeer

    Neemobeer Windows Forum Team
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    Do you have the auto maintenance option checked in the GPO? GPO.
     
  18. Manotee

    Manotee Active Member

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    Yes, after my latest install of Build 1607 (B14393.53), I used gpedit.msc to verify this setting. It was set, but Windows Update did not acknowledge it as below at the 1511 Build.

    With Build 1607 the wording Some settings are managed by your organization,and Chose how updates are to be installed Notify to download is are missing. I assume (dangerous) that if not acknowledged, the Notify option is ignored.

    I just purchased the Windows 7 Pro install DVD online and am planning to downlevel my ThinkPad to Windows 7 Pro. I lose some function, but gain peace of mind. I can be certain my backups are solid and I can shutdown and startup with as much confidence as possible remembering the software is still Microsoft.
     
    #18 Manotee, Aug 14, 2016
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 30, 2016
  19. Manotee

    Manotee Active Member

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    Yes, after my latest install of Build 1607 (B14393.53), I used gpedit.msc to verify this setting. It was set, but Windows Update did not acknowledge it as below at the 1511 Build.

    upload_2016-8-14_14-19-17.

    With Build 1607 the wording Some settings are managed by your organization,and Chose how updates are to be installed Notify to download is are missing. I assume (dangerous) that if not acknowledged, the Notify option is ignored.

    I just purchased the Windows 7 Pro install DVD online and am planning to downlevel my ThinkPad to Windows 7 Pro. I lose some function, but gain peace of mind. I can be certain my backups are solid and I can shutdown and startup with as much confidence as possible remembering the software is still Microsoft.
     
  20. Neemobeer

    Neemobeer Windows Forum Team
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    If you have the "install during automatic maintenance" checked, it will start downloading and installing updates if the time has passed what is listed. If you want users to have complete control then un-check that setting.


    This checkbox is new as of Windows 10 I believe and is checked by default, so unchecking that will make that policy how it was in 7
     

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