Community Vote: Experience Points System?

[Mike]

At our last meeting, we discussed the possibility of adding a reward system to both Windows7Forums.com and Windows8Forums.com. In the past, this system has been known as the Experience Points system. Because the points system uses up a large amount of resources, and may not always reflect accurate results, we were compelled to remove the system prior to 2011. However, if enough interest is present, we will re-introduce the system by August 2012. If you would like to see this type of system re-introduced, which includes points, profile awards, automated and custom trophies added to member accounts, please vote.

The minimum vote tally will be 20 votes, otherwise, we will send this vote for an administrative decision. As members of our site, we ask that you help us decide whether or not this system is worthwhile. In consideration please consider the following:

"Whereas it is affirmed that this system may increase the usability of Windows7Forums.com and/or Windows8Forums.com,

Whereas it is affirmed that the best way to promote user interaction may be an automated activity calculation system,

Whereas it is decided to enact this system no later than the end of August 2012,

Whereas a successful vote to enact or decline such a resolution will require more than 50% in favor and at least 20 votes in totality,

It is hereby resolved by the members, staff, and administration of Windows7Forums.com to enact such a system on a permanent basis, or until such a time that such system is rendered obsolete or dysfunctional."

If you are a member of the forums, it is kindly requested that you please vote on this measure so that it is not referred to the admin team to make the final decision. We would prefer that our members decide if such a system is necessary!

 

[Jimbo22]

I would like to keep it place. I vote YES.

 

[Kosh Vorlon]

While I've seen this kind of thing backfire into competition for awards taking priority over service to the OPs, I think in general that's not how most react and agree that some form of recognition would be beneficial.

My biggest concern is that this was posted weeks ago and there are now only 7 voters (including mine). I hope enough people vote to make it simple and better perceived (even if it looks like management will do it anyway, which is good, but it won't be as "friendly" as if the community participated and it can be presented that way if/when implemented).

Good gosh, are all decisions couched in such legalese? For a moment, I almost had to put on a nearly forgotten "hat" to get through that and be sure I fully comprehended it.

 

[cliffordcooley]

Good gosh, are all decisions couched in such legalese? For a moment, I almost had to put on a nearly forgotten "hat" to get through that and be sure I fully comprehended it.

That maybe the reason for so few votes.

 

[Kosh Vorlon]

That maybe the reason for so few votes.

I can't remember now, but could that even be seen until after you voted? I'm pretty sure it appeared along with the voting results only after I'd voted - but geez, I can't believe I can't remember even though it was such a short time ago (and no way for me to test it now since I've already voted as I assume you have as well if I'm right).

 

[cliffordcooley]

I assume you have as well if I'm right

Yeah, I voted back when the polls started.

 

[Mike]

My biggest concern is that this was posted weeks ago and there are now only 7 voters (including mine). I hope enough people vote to make it simple and better perceived (even if it looks like management will do it anyway, which is good, but it won't be as "friendly" as if the community participated and it can be presented that way if/when implemented).

Good gosh, are all decisions couched in such legalese? For a moment, I almost had to put on a nearly forgotten "hat" to get through that and be sure I fully comprehended it.

Unfortunately, recent and even past efforts at providing site governance options to our members have been met with limited enthusiasm, to say the least. Most of these changes are made on our team level or at an administrator meeting. You may find that if we fail to achieve the 20 votes necessary, we will take this into consideration, as well as the status of the votes in the final tally. I note that all admins have abstained, but one has voted nay, which may come across in our discussions if the poll closes with less than 20 votes. This could essentially be considered a veto from kemical (Ross), unless there is a large amount of enthusiasm for such a system. We will only be able to tell with time, and (hopefully), more participation.

 

[Kosh Vorlon]

I note that all admins have abstained, but one has voted nay, which may come across in our discussions if the poll closes with less than 20 votes. This could essentially be considered a veto from kemical (Ross), unless there is a large amount of enthusiasm for such a system. We will only be able to tell with time, and (hopefully), more participation.

If that's the case (and you truly do want more participation and 20 votes is sufficient and a majority as opposed to a landslide agreement is sufficient and this isn't now just a reason to consider the one nay vote as a veto), then perhaps the solution is to give the poll more visibility. I almost didn't notice it way down there at the bottom.

Perhaps if it were placed instead at the top where it couldn't be overlooked it would improve responses and participation. In fact, I virtually guarantee that participation would show a marked improvement though I've no idea how the voting would go. Many go to the forum they want and don't scroll through the entire page and so don't see it - I did only because I'm new and I'm checking everything out.

Anyway, just a thought for your consideration. Frankly, I almost abstained myself as it's not urgent and I don't know if it will draw new members as much as it might incent current ones to work harder (or it may cause some competition complications - and I suspect it will but it will be rare). I don't really care myself, but I have to admit that when I look at Kosh Vorlon - MS MVP - Microsoft Answers, I do take a bit of pride in the accomplishments and badges on the right. I suppose how it is implemented will have a major impact on its effectiveness, it's perceived value (once in place), and whether or not it is tempting or easy or structured to reward good behavior and not behavior that seems good but actually says nothing or may even indicate bad behavior.

An example of something good would be most answers because it shows both participation and quality responses - but you're not really set up for that. An example of something bad or good might be fastest response (which could mean quick answers to the OPs as good, or quick, unresearched replies just to be the fastest - even if fixed moments later with edits - as bad).

Another good or bad one is "most posts" (not there, but given what you track here, one you'd probably be thinking about as would those voting who are wondering what could be done that truly highlighted positive value to the forum). Good if they are quality posts that really answer the questions/problems. Not so good if people begin to use unedited template responses (and I've seen that done to the point where some post every 1-2 minutes ALL the time to ANY thread even if they don't know anything about it - and it isn't reasonable to give a properly researched, analyzed, and thought-out reply that fast unless it's a simple one every so often.

But this poll isn't about how or what but rather if. I imagine though that most voting (and especially the nay) are putting too much weight thinking of the many ways it can be abused (and what you can do with what you actually collect) instead of the positive value it can have if focused and emphasized properly.

And consider that while the computer can give you the top 4 or 5 for each type of award, you can add a more subjective process to it so the computer isn't in full control and a brief discussion ensues to select a true winner and rule out anyone overtly abusing it. But that's not for this thread - but is probably a consideration or concern to those who are voting on the concept.

Also, there are some who are abstaining by not voting (since voting to abstain doesn't seem worth the effort to do) and not considering that means the minimum number of votes may not be reached since that isn't known until after voting. That too could be fixed and increase participation by including a brief comment that the number of people voting - regardless of the vote - has an impact on whether or not anything is done. I'd certainly be more inclined to vote if I knew that failure to meet some minimum threshhold might cause a decision I didn't prefer (and even vote to abstain just to increase the number of voters).

Just some rambling thoughts and ideas on how to improve participation if that's truly what you want to do.

Thanks for listening (if you made it this far - LOL!).

 

[Mitchell_A]

Unfortunately, recent and even past efforts at providing site governance options to our members have been met with limited enthusiasm, to say the least. Most of these changes are made on our team level or at an administrator meeting. You may find that if we fail to achieve the 20 votes necessary, we will take this into consideration, as well as the status of the votes in the final tally. I note that all admins have abstained, but one has voted nay, which may come across in our discussions if the poll closes with less than 20 votes. This could essentially be considered a veto from kemical (Ross), unless there is a large amount of enthusiasm for such a system. We will only be able to tell with time, and (hopefully), more participation.

It's unfortunate in a sense, but at the same time I don't think it's necessarily bad... Our staff works together as a great team to make the most positively influential decisions for both of our sites. People just don't seem that interested, for whatever reason, in helping improve the site. Maybe it's already perfect, I don't know. As a comparison, I started a thread/poll some time ago, about AV choices and it received ~130 votes within a few months. http://windows7forums.com/windows-7-software/52963-anti-virus-do-you-use.html

 

[Kosh Vorlon]

It's unfortunate in a sense, but at the same time I don't think it's necessarily bad... Our staff works together as a great team to make the most positively influential decisions for both of our sites. People just don't seem that interested, for whatever reason, in helping improve the site. Maybe it's already perfect, I don't know. As a comparison, I started a thread/poll some time ago, about AV choices and it received ~130 votes within a few months. http://windows7forums.com/windows-7-software/52963-anti-virus-do-you-use.html

Hi Mitchell,

With all due respect, and recognizing I've hardly been here long enough to see how members do or don't try to help or whether things are already perfect and management always makes the right decisions (with the caveat that no site I've ever seen anywhere seems perfect or even close after I've been through it), and recognizing the implications inherent in your job title, does the post I made above preceding yours sound like one from a new member who doesn't sound interested in becoming involved and trying to help improve things?

 

[Mitchell_A]

Hi Mitchell,

With all due respect, and recognizing I've hardly been here long enough to see how members do or don't try to help or whether things are already perfect and management always makes the right decisions (with the caveat that no site I've ever seen anywhere seems perfect or even close after I've been through it), and recognizing the implications inherent in your job title, does the post I made above preceding yours sound like one from a new member who doesn't sound interested in becoming involved and trying to help improve things?

Absolutely not - you've provided constructive criticism, which as well all know often leads to improvement. Any feedback we receive from members, regardless of their time on the site is always discussed through our Skype channel and staff forum so we can decide how to act on it. I should have revised my earlier statement. It's not that nobody is interested in helping us improve, it's that less people than we'd like to be are interested, if you see what I mean. It's great to see your interested in helping us improve, even being a new member! Not many MVP's come our way with the same mindset - most want royalty or some or form of special treatment while on our site. So thank you, Kosh.

 

[Trouble]

While I am in favor of adopting practically anything that might attract new and keep existing members on our site, I am reluctant to vote "Yay", as it was my previous understanding that when we had this particular add-on in place before that it resulted in some serious overhead for the site and consequent performance degradation. IF that is no longer the case then I say go ahead and go for it. We can probably sort out the small beefs later.