Just Sharing from Another Forum

Discussion in 'Windows 8 Help and Support' started by Drew, Jul 28, 2012.

  1. Drew

    Drew Banned

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    I have a lot of empathy & understanding for my colleagues in the Forum. However, I realise as new folks keep coming to the forum, we must persevere. The point of a forum, as we see it, the aim, is to help people, guide, instruct, offer some insight & enlightenment & maybe, even fix something... or promote keeping things from breaking. One of the most important, take-aways in computing is to be proactive rather than & more than reactive.

    Certainly, civil, healthy, mature, respectful discussion is good & welcomed, also.

    There may be some variation on defining "debate". And this is were my peers find things "get old"... and I can see their rational. I was on the Debate Club many, many moons ago. Debate, by definition, meant stating a supported idea that, therefore, had credit & merit. Therefore, the other party would pay heed & give due, thoughtful, consideration and evaluation, compared to their own take on things, up to that point. From there could be sound & decent conversation, arriving at a conclusion or understanding or new understanding.

    That said, when we grow accustom to 'debate' where there is no open ear, no open-mindedness, there's been heaps of that, already. 'Debate' & prejudice don't play well together. To define prejudice... not that it isn't ok to dislike something or criticise it but, that the mind is, already, absolutely, decided... that's not debate. That's banging your head against a brick wall. That's frustrating.

    I'll say this just as an objective, observation. My colleagues, know, as a Beta Tester, I can and must be objective. It would do the development of a product no good, @ all, if testers & builders did not, equally look @ all aspects, be they felt to be good or bad.

    It did not take long, @ all, to discover & learn Windows8
    In some cases numbers in Win8 are better than prior, in some not. To most folks the differential in specs won't matter or be noticed, consciously. The are huge technical changes, additions & enhancements in Windows8. Most people won't notice or care... or maybe not. Point is, it will vary, both in magnitude & in what ways. But, no matter, fact is, there is, indeed & in fact some amazing & impressive technology in Win8. However, there is no obligation to adopt it October 2012. But, remember, life is a continuum. IF, not October, for someone, for some reason, @ some point, the time may come.

    A big par of things is human nature... many humans don't take well to change, period, it's just a reality. It's a truism, that , actually, that's what rears its ugly head every time an OS is released. Yet, I liked XP better than Win 98; there were likable (new) things, approaches to things in Vista... I beta tested Vista for a year and both praise it an razed it. Windows7 which, I beta tested for a year was much better. Nothing is perfect and perfect is subjective. People get perfect & ideal twisted. A person thinks something isn't perfect because it doesn't meet their ideal. When Microsoft builds an OS, people forget, it is w/ a global view, it is for billions, not for you in the sense that you cannot please everyone all the time or all @ the same time. This concept gets severely forgotten. Not it is not perfect & no, everybody is not going to like everything about it all the time. To expect otherwise is 100% silly. To accept something, to discover it, learn it is not a bad thing. It may be different, to whatever degree, it may be new but, it IS.

    All my colleagues (& I) feel is has little value to bash things or whine & complain. it is better to add a "yeah but". Yeah but, what could I enjoy or smile about, what could I use or do, even, if, it's instead of something that was? Yeah but, can I talk about alternatives, workarounds, how tos... yeah but, how do I do things, where are they, what is there to learn, know & discover. It comes down to attitude & not having a predetermined chip on ones shoulder. There's better time spent than sticking pins in a Bill Gates doll. It won't help anything. And we here are glad to be helpful. That is not possible & is nothing but, frustrating, if, it falls on deaf ears.

    I had been studying Win8 since before BUILD on Sept. 14, 2011. I sat through, attentively all the Presentation @ BUILD. I worked w/ the DP; reported to the Windows8 Build Team. I worked w/ the CP. I started Beta Testing when the CP was released and have continued w/ the RP. I have been running Win8 non-stop since 29/2/12. I have gained a lot of respect, awareness & appreciation for it. There have been many things I have praised to the Win8 Build Team AND many things I have faulted, many things I have requested & suggested. Everything backed up w/ details, data & examples so, it's believable, accurate & clear.

    As for debate... some, many who are not in IT or Enterprise, say business will hate Windows8. Corporate sources are saying the opposite. Some say youth will love it... nobody questions that one. Some say the elderly & or XP Users will hate it... the irony is most of those in the forums, who are keen on Win8 & took to it easily & quickly are older folks.

    But, the irony does not stop there. We hear people say it is hard to navigate... it is easier & more efficient than Windows7. We feel, ask, instead of grumble. It, can't be all that, otherwise so many people would not like it so much AND THEY DO! We do get tired of people fussing about the Start screen because that is so very silly & groundless. Many of us never, even, use of visit it. People say things like you have to contend w/ a million tiles & scroll for days... none of which, is true.

    Just listen & be willing to take from others & re-evaluate & adjust & forget comparing... why? Of course it's different... and in 3 more years there will be another different OS.

    I don't often or usually write this much, my fingers are tiring. We'd love to help, (debate, not, too, sure why, makes people nervous what is meant by that), discuss, have people willing to listen & think about what others might know or perceive (differently from them). Be willing to revisited certain notions.

    A mountainous amount of investigative research, surveys, feedback, testing & questionnaires came before Windows8. The idea that it was blindly & stubbornly shoved @ the world is rubbish! The efforts to know what people both in & out of business want & need, will like, understand & use OR NOT has been & is & will continue to be huge.

    Yep, Microsoft want to be successful. That doesn't make it a terrible company. It is the fundament raison d'etre of any business or entrepreneur. Yep, they need to bother w/ the changing landscape in IT. no question that means mobility... phones, tablets, et al. The workplace, the workforce is getting more mobile all the time. Computers are everywhere, classrooms, homes, offices, in the stands @ an event, in your hand on the bus. Things keep changing... Microsoft are not idiots or weird for trying & wanting to stay in pace w/ that. There will, still, be a huge place taken up by conventional, non-Touch DESKTOP PCs & laptops. It is a huge thing that Microsoft has made an OS that will work on ALL devices... harmony & syncing & consistency. It is a huge thing that Windows8 does not need super-robust or new gear. Those are not bad things. We are going to adapt, like it or not, to OUR changing times... the future is not going to wait while, some people cry about what WAS in XP.

    Finally, please try to sympathise... we have heard a lot of false things suggested, we tire of being made to feel like we talk but, to uninterested ears. We've been there, done that, have the T-shirt. It was a new read for us, too, excitedly we perused & pursued it Though, @ the end of the day, we know how good & how sensible & easy Windows8 is. So, it is tough when we are, only, told it's horrid & we are missing something because, somehow we've come to know it is not horrid, dumb or difficult... no matter how many times or ways we repeat the actual, reality & facts. It is not a matter of debating who or what is right or wrong. It is a matter of what is in hand, the here & now and having a good, pleasant, productive User Experience w/ Windows8.

    Regards,
    Drew
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  2. Tanzanos Mzungu

    Tanzanos Mzungu New Member

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    You may be forgetting that Microsoft is basically a monopoly and as such leaves little room for choice to the consumer. Microsoft is acting in ways that are detrimental simply because it wants to force consumers to adopt whatever MS thinks should be the new trend. Are we forgetting blunders like Bill Gates quote of: "The Internet? We are not interested in it". Also the failed Win ME and Vista. Now they are pushing PCs out of the equation by forcing an OS specifically developed for touch screen (smart phones, tablets, etc.). If MS were not a monopoly then I am sure they would have ended up where IBM ended.

    We want choice and choice is a word that MS forgot a long time ago!
     
  3. shaneblack

    shaneblack New Member

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    I dont know about you but I recently tried Win 8 RP again and I thought it was very speedy on my new laptop. My processor scored a 5.8 on win 7, that number went up to a 6.1 with win 8. Which means Win 8 is handling my processor 3 points better then win 7 which probably results in better speed. Everything was nice and vivid I was really happy until looking at the video card driver. It said ATI radeon HD 4200 Engineering sample, I tried installing win 7 drivers but no go, it didn't take them and kept putting the sample driver back in. Which would have been fine but the software used to control graphics did not give me important options for adjusting full screen in 800x600. I would switch to this resolution and I had no full screen stretching option so I got black borders on the sides. Switching resolutions is important to me because pc games run better in lower resolutions on my graphics card.

    If it wasn't for that I would definitely stick with Win 8. It has more vivid colors on my laptop, and good performance too. It makes me sad.
     
  4. Drew

    Drew Banned

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    IF, we are talking about choice to spend a majority of time & attention devoted to Start OR to Desktop, there is choice.

    2nd, the truth is Windows8 (by design) works well on both conventional non-Touch Desktop PCs & laptops as it does on other devices, as well.

    Drew
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  5. shaneblack

    shaneblack New Member

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    It really does work great, after I fixed my video card driver I've had no problems at all with it. Its very fast, I have a better time on here now then on my old laptop. Gaming works very smoothly and videos are playing without the problems my older laptop had. So I'll be choosing Win 8 from now on for all my needs. Cheers :)
     
  6. Drew

    Drew Banned

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    Very cool, Shane :encouragement:

    Cheers,
    Drew
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  7. shaneblack

    shaneblack New Member

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    Yea I'm very impressed with 8 now. Windows 7 was good but there just was some things about it that caused problems. I take back anything bad I might of said about Windows 8 before, it is faster. I think was just fustrated about the driver support. I'm sitting here now enjoying music and videos having a good time. And liking the look I always have with win 8. Its sharper, clearer, and RP has Aero so the desktop is simply looking very colorful and amazing. This is something I've always wanted to have but since my older laptop had problems with win 8 I just kept thinking to myself," man I wish this would work", since my video driver kept making videos and games skip and freeze. But now my new laptop works great and I'm just tickled to death with its performance increase. :)
     
  8. Drew

    Drew Banned

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    Well, now, there's a testimonial, If, there, ever, was one, eh? All I can say is, YEP. Been non-stop since 29/2 and, YEP. It just gets to be a comfort zone (over time & quickly).

    Losing AERO after the RP, though. There has been some pleading w/ the Win8 Build Team but, so far have not heard that transparency will be there. Although, it was not expected in the RP.

    And, yes, you're, quite right, Shane, it is impressive. (Especially, considering we are, still, actually, looking @ a beta... especially impressive, being that it's a beta)

    Cheers,
    Drew
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    #8 Drew, Aug 4, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 4, 2012
  9. shaneblack

    shaneblack New Member

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    Capture.PNG Capture2.PNG



    Just some pictures of my Windows 8 desktop, pretty cool huh.
     
  10. Drew

    Drew Banned

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    Shane,

    Is that a Libraries folder or an Applications folder on the Taskbar?

    The wallpaper is from, what's now, about 1350 photos, mostly from photo.net, on a 10 sec. interval. Folder @ the top of the Taskbar is an Applications folder. (Libraries is on its Jumplist)

    Screenshot (30).JPG

    Drew
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  11. shaneblack

    shaneblack New Member

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    No I just had a folder open at the time but I don't have anything pinned to my taskbar, I pin my most important programs to my metro start screen. I put the my computer and User folder icons on my desktop for quick access to files and other programs. I like to keep my desktop and metro neat and have little to no clutter at all. I'm a stickler on that lol. I know most windows programs from previous versions, so to find the snipping tool that I used to capture the desktop images I went into System32 folder and found it.

    There is alot of programs we are used to in system32, like paint and sound recorder. My advice to others is if they cant find a program that they used to have on win 7 then look there for it. But you won't find any of the games from before, so you might want to look on the web for copies of them. I copied spider solitar for xp to win 8 and it worked just fine. I did that because I sold some laptops with win 8 on them to a couple older people in their 70's and 80's. They wanted that game from XP so I just copied it onto win 8. They love win 8, they say its the most easiest windows they have used.

    Anyways Windows 8 is actually very customizable, I see you use your own style for desktop with a program I've seen around, very nice.
     
    #11 shaneblack, Aug 5, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 5, 2012
  12. Drew

    Drew Banned

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    Just, FYI, Shane...

    If, Desktop Toolbar is enabled, it will contain all desktop items; thereby allowing for desktop icons not to show.

    If, an Applications folder is on the Taskbar, everything is @ one's fingertips... no need to find on Start or in a folder somewhere. Everything is in 1, handy, place.

    Just saying...

    Maybe give it a thought. Increases degree of ease, convenience & efficiency.

    Cheers,
    Drew
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    #12 Drew, Aug 5, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 5, 2012
  13. shaneblack

    shaneblack New Member

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    Well that is useful and I like how its faster to use, thanks.
     
  14. Drew

    Drew Banned

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    You're welcome. Pass it around :)

    Drew
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  15. davehc

    davehc Microsoft MVP
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    Hi Shane.
    I haven't read the whole of this thread thoroughly, but I was drawn to your posts. An interested query. Was your index improved, on Windows 8, from 7, with the same computer, or with the move from old to new? If the former, that is impressive. Most users are so far disappointed as they read a lower figure. But this is only a visual degradation, caused by an wider scale being introduced in Windows 8.

    Regarding your use of "System32". You don't mention it, but you are aware that, in Metro, if you right click, an option appears in the bottom right corner to show "all apps". This will give you access to all of those programs you miss which, on a right click, can be pinned to the Metro.

    I was pleased to see that you have adopted Metro. It is old hat, and hackneyed now, but it seems that many users have gone for third party menus (Classic?) or a cluttered legacy desktop. As I have mentioned in other threads, like yourself, I do not like too much clutter. We do not need to have every executive available at our fingertips. I have pruned my Metro and regard it as a start menu, NOT a desktop. After all, what is the real difference? One click, or selection of the Windows Key, and you are in your Start/Metro menu again. In windows 7, or with a third party start menu in 8, it remains as one click to open and one click to get to the "Programs".

    After some use, I am completely at home now with the Metro.
    Fwiw. So far! The RTM is going to be a disappointment for the optimistic. MS have not relented, and there is still no automatic access to the legacy desktop.
     
    #15 davehc, Aug 5, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 5, 2012
  16. shaneblack

    shaneblack New Member

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    Ya I will, you know to me I didn't think Win 7 was that bad, it had Directx 11 support for games which XP only had directx 9, and there was quite abit of features too. But that all kinda got boring after awhile. Plus I had a hard time with me webcam freezing my laptop which win 8 already has it setup and has an app for it which also records video. Less hassle I think Win 8 is about. Theres just more to offer, the app store has a good amount of stuff.
    To me I didn't like windows 7 aero, it had some kind of reflection bars going through it which to me didn't look all that great. When I first saw Windows 8 aero, I thought about how nice it looks. Theres no reflective bars in the aero which makes only color and transparency visible. I like this, its one best features I like about it. I think it goes great with the whole OS. Sadly I know this may come to an end in the final release. I hope not though.
     
  17. shaneblack

    shaneblack New Member

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    Dave, Yes indeed my Windows score is up, the processor used to score a 5.8, now it scores a 6.1. Thats a .3 point increase which means Windows 8 makes better use of this processor. It isn't a brand new processor either and is kind of dated. AMD Turion 2, 2.5ghz. Another score increase is with my graphics card, after I applied a fix to make the windows 7 driver work and the software for it, I actually gained .1 point. It went from a 5.3 to a 5.4. Its a small increase but why stay with win 7 when win 8 gets you slightly better performance. You might as well take advantage of it.
    I have no problems with Metro and always found it quite useful from day one. I could run Win8 and use it comfortably without hardly changing a thing, Its really nice looking and fast to use :)

    As I said earlier I never mean't to put Win 8 down, I just was fustrated because my older laptop had issues running it. Mainly the video card messing up, it was Intel gma 965 (A.K.A - X3100 graphics). Now I have ATI Radeon HD 4200 which is a big step up from the Intel one. Now I have no problems at all.

    P.S Thanks for letting me know about APP search, I used it before and forgot about that feature, I can find things even easier now that you reminded me.
     
    #17 shaneblack, Aug 5, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 5, 2012
  18. Drew

    Drew Banned

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    We did not expect there would be a direct route to Desktop w//out Start 1st.

    Regardless of any (however meaningful) numbers, expected or real, the thing, in daily use, just, feels/seems fast, smooth, cooperative & snappy... noticeably enough that one's left w/ the sensation that it is, overall, better than what was before it.

    The ALL APPs mentioned as a folder does not offer everything. The Applications folder, to which I refer, does. It gives everything, more than what ALL APPs gives & not just whatever tiles are on Start but, everything.

    See the following:
    http://windows8forums.com/windows-8-start-screen-desktop/7323-all-applications-taskbar-folder.html

    Cheers,
    Drew
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    #18 Drew, Aug 5, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 5, 2012
  19. davehc

    davehc Microsoft MVP
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    "We did not expect there would be a direct route to Desktop w//out Start 1st."
    Well, I did say the Optimistic. There are countless threads from users on forums hoping.

    Which particular items do you find in the created Apps folder, which is not in the "All Apps". I have Admin tools enabled in Metro, which shows some of the more obscure ones, but cannot really see any significant difference - just curious?
     
  20. shaneblack

    shaneblack New Member

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    I've tried both the APPS folder shortcut and the all APPS menu and I see no difference between the two, both ways show the same files and programs as the other, you said it gives you everything and not just the start tiles but when I use all apps it gives me everything including windows desktop programs as well, it does for me anyway. I find the only difference is a nicer menu with all APPS menu.
     
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