Seven Forums

Discussion in 'The Water Cooler' started by Andrea Borman, Mar 9, 2012.

  1. Andrea Borman

    Andrea Borman Honorable Member

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    If you are talking about Seven Forums. Well it is not just me that has been barred from there for no reason. I saw when I went on the site that Elmer and Dr Who who also is known as Old Timer on Windows 7 forums also got banned from Seven Forums.And they are both model members and have never done anything wrong.

    And I have read that other people have been banned from Seven Forums for no reason,for doing nothing. So it's not just me that was banned from Seven Forums.

    Seven Forums are just like that. They are very strict.

    And I did not do anything wrong on Seven Forums.

    A member posted on a thread that was about Windows Movie Maker 6 on Windows 7, that he liked one of my You Tube videos. And I responded back to him on the same thread,thanking him for liking my video. And for that they banned me. Andrea Borman.
     
  2. Elmer

    Elmer Extraordinary Member

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    Re: Win 8 and me

    I personally don't mind being quoted as a refugee from SF.

    If anyone posts a link to a useful tutorial, a certain member will plagiarise it and add it to his portfolio then re-direct the links to his so it can be (his words) "be kept up to date". I didn't realise Windows registry changed until I read that. So br*nk is a god (Oops! mentioned his name!!). Even nicked one of mine**. But I can sleep easy at night.

    So. Andrea, you carry on. I don't agree with you on a lot (most). Your Court of Human Rights may be going a bit far. And as for having an unstable mind, does this mean that computers should have an ownership test? Who would pass?

    Once MS controls which Apps you can use, then watch out. Big Brother isn't only about Government control.

    (**Not true, was a member, who, once I was banned, "stole" my glass folders and put them on dA as his own.)
     
    #2 Elmer, Mar 9, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 9, 2012
  3. Drew

    Drew Banned

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    Re: Win 8 and me

    Elmer, that wasn't plagiarism! It was adding to something & in the name of teamwork AND I gave you credit for initially mentioning the material! Geeesh, man.

    Ppl are having a hard time over Andrea, that's who they have been talking to Admin about for a long while. If, you want to defend or disagree w/ how ppl feel towards & about her, fine but, it is about her.
     
  4. Elmer

    Elmer Extraordinary Member

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    Re: Win 8 and me

    Drew, I wasn't on about you.
     
  5. Andrea Borman

    Andrea Borman Honorable Member

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    Re: Win 8 and me

    Out of curiosity Elmer,why did they ban you from Seven Forums? Did they tell you why or did they not give you a reason. Just asking. Andrea Borman.
     
  6. Mike

    Mike Windows Forum Admin
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    Re: Win 8 and me

    This entire conversation has been moved out of the Windows 8 discussion area as this has absolutely nothing to do with Windows 8 at all.
     
  7. davehc

    davehc Microsoft MVP
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    Re: Win 8 and me

    Plagiarism.
    1. To steal and pass off (the ideas or words of another) as one's own
    2. To use (another's production) without crediting the source
    3. To commit literary theft
    4. To present as new and original an idea or product derived from an existing source.

    The subject has come up before. I think Plagiarism will have to be redefined in respect of help offered on forums. The only applicable item, from my short list, is the fourth. But what is an existing source? Is anyone, keen to help, going to browse for half an hour to find that? I doubt it.
    Over the years, even since XP, I have built up a n enormous folder on my computer, with hints and help. Often, when someone is requesting help, I refer to this. I have the knowledge, now, to write from the "top of my head", when required, but often do not see the necessity for it.
    There is no problem, in fact it is gracious, to refer to a source, when suggesting a remedy to a problem, but, as I waffled, this is not necessarily the original source.
    I have had tremendous help from the brilliance of the person already mentioned, but even he, if you study the tutorials, has had occasion to copy them from another source. But often, he has turned these around to produce the most beautiful pictorial tutorials. - I do not regard him as a plagiarist. In this case, I can often think of nothing better than to refer those requesting help as a link to the tutorial.
    I, myself, wrote two original "hacks" for Vista, which can be used in Windows 8. One of these is widely used on an almost daily basis. It was an obvious registry hack to construct, and even as I posted for the first time, others testers were doing the same - Who had the original source?
    fwiw. The problem has existed outside of the computer world, in the scientific are, since science began. But, as I have tried to outline, the internet view may require some legal modification of the definition. imo. no one can be sued for copying a help hint from another source.
     
  8. Drew

    Drew Banned

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    Re: Win 8 and me

    Oh. Well, that's nice to know, Elmer. Relived, now. :joyous:
     
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  9. catilley1092

    catilley1092 Extraordinary Member

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    Re: Win 8 and me

    I was banned from that site also, for no other reason than my current signature & avatar (which has been acceptable on most other forums that I'm a member of). On one forum (the MBAM one), I was told that my avatar & signature is a bit too political, and was removed, but I wasn't banned. Being that I'm not a truly active member there, it didn't matter.

    Some forums are different than others, especially Seven Forums. Their definition of free speech is apparently different from most others. Oh, and don't even think of defending your point, even if it's the right one, against one of the mods, administrators, or their "MVP" (or whatever term they use for power members). Out the door you go.

    My view of it is that if I'm not welcome, show me the door. I don't want to be where I'm not wanted. There's plenty of forums on the net, including this one & the Windows 7 Forums associated with it, that has welcomed me with open arms. And if anyone has a issue with me, that person can PM me about it. I'm not hard to get along with at all.

    Cat
     
  10. Andrea Borman

    Andrea Borman Honorable Member

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    Re: Win 8 and me

    Yes catilley1092,Seven Forums are very strict and you cannot have a proper conversation over there.One word off topic and a moderator will come along and delete your post.

    It was a really bad day for me as I got banned from 2 forums in 24 hours. First seven Forums for thanking a member on a thread for liking my video. And then Expert Law forums a few hours later for posting about my ban from Seven Forums.

    And Seven Forums banned and did it in a nasty way. When I logged into the site 20 minutes after my post I got this ban message.

    I looked it up on Wikipedia,and persona non grata means person not welcome.

    I think a moderator saw my videos or read my website or my posts on other forums. And did not like what he read or watched. And banned me for that reason,maybe.

    But it seems that Seven Forums ban a lot of people for no reason. So I am not alone. Welcome to the club.Andrea Borman.
     
  11. whoosh

    whoosh Cooler King
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    Re: Win 8 and me

    Yes I myself got banned from seven forums some years ago now . Mainly for posting, off topic, in the off topic area . It seems they have a rather different view of what is , off topic .
    Best thing ever to happen was that ban . I may never have happened upon, windows7forums otherwise !
    Thank you, windows seven forums, for being ,what you are . We all know what you are ,thus I feel no need to mention it :p
     
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  12. Mike

    Mike Windows Forum Admin
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    Re: Win 8 and me

    "People simply disappeared, always during the night. Your name was removed from the registers, every record of everything you had ever done was wiped out, your one-time existence was denied and then forgotten. You were abolished, annihilated: vaporized was the usual word."
    - George Orwell, 1984, Book 1, Chapter 1

    Just reminded me of something ... Mind you I have nothing to do with it. Thanks :)

    Or was the proper title "Nineteen Eighty-Four" ?
     
    #12 Mike, Mar 15, 2012
    Last edited: Mar 15, 2012
  13. Mike

    Mike Windows Forum Admin
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    In all seriousness, do let me say that we do value the contributions of all of our members, whether those be large or small. Outside of our Terms of Service policy, there is little that we do to restrict member freedom to express their opinions and thoughts. Comments that express disdain or ad hominem rebuttles towards other members are removed. Because the forums are currently low-key, which in a lot of ways is nice, we are able to keep up with regulars here and share our thoughts a bit more on a personal level.

    I, for one, have never really had anything against this SevenForums.com website. I made efforts early on to approach them and asked them if they wanted to partner by doing a link exchange. The answer was a resounding no, over some obscure post that I had made, in jest, about the way they were advertising software. Eventually, we began to advertise in a similar way that they did. I never saw how they could not find humor in something so silly. I even expressed that to them in an e-mail response. Their policy towards Windows7Forums.com never really changed, over a one sentence comment that was made in response to a heckler who was actively promoting "SevenForums" and complaining about "Windows7Forums" on Windows7Forums.com. For all I know, he could have been put up to it by them, but for all intents and purposes, seemed to have just been a random troll, as he was also banned on their site.

    I have never felt a reason to express anger or disdain at their management or people: They seem to have a reasonable tutorial section, but it is unfortunate that they have been unwilling to interact with other websites more. I am surprised that whoosh is a SevenForums refugee. I had likely forgotten that over the many years we have known each other, and I really did not realize that hostilities and emotions ran so deep on that site.

    Certainly, one of the basic tenants and justifications for Windows7Forums.com and Windows8Forums.com is to actually be a forum. By its very definition, a forum is defined in this manner:

    fo·rum   [fawr-uhm, fohr-uhm]
    noun, plural fo·rums, fo·ra  [fawr-uh, fohr-uh]
    1. the marketplace or public square of an ancient Roman city, the center of judicial and business affairs and a place of assembly for the people.
    2. a court or tribunal: the forum of public opinion.
    3. an assembly, meeting place, television program, etc., for the discussion of questions of public interest.
    4. the Forum, the forum in the ancient city of Rome.

    In all seriousness, the idea of a forum itself brings to mind a place where public opinion and expression is shared - and such expression can take on many forms. On technical Internet forums, we expect many conversations to take the form of a debate. In doing so, we also expect civility from our members, and a high tolerance level for those who disagree with you.

    As forum moderators and team members, our goal is to moderate items that violate our Terms of Service: nothing more and nothing less. There is no "persona non grata". I think one of our most intense debates on our Staff Forum @ Windows7Forums.com involved the posting of a controversial music video in the off-topic Water Cooler.

    It is an old saying, but while we may fundamentally disagree with something you have to say - we will fight for your right to say it. Otherwise, I would not have been interested in setting up these communities. This is not a site that is rule by majority - it is in fact a site that is rule by the terms that you agree to when you create your account. We have penalized moderators for inappropriate moderation in the past, when overreacting on someone either verbally or through our system. We make extensive use of the infraction points system, which, depending on the severity of the TOS violation, automatically determines whether or not a person is banned and for what duration. Usually, warnings resolve most issues.

    I think a good example of our policy is, in fact, Andrea. A lot of people here, no doubt, disagree with everything Andrea has to say. But the solution is to refute her arguments, one by one, or simply choose to ignore her. The solution is never to choose to ignore someone, and then relish, publicly, in the exact same thread where you were complaining the very same person was being inappropriate. Constructive criticism about technology is something that we will defend, even if it is Windows 8. This is part of the discussion process, and it is part of managing a truly open and unbiased forum. If I am to lose an accolade or award because of that - so be it. I would rather be on the side of free speech.

    Now, when such discussion becomes overtly repetitive, or plainly becomes trolling, that is a different story. In many cases, we were approached by individuals who know absolutely nothing about Windows 7, and defended Windows XP, if only because they knew nothing else. When we look back on the situation today, I am glad that we let those people speak their mind and allow individuals to converse and argue their points. It starts to become a dirty argument when we sling mud at each other. To understand this better, really look up ad hominem attacks and straw man arguments. These are common tactics that people use against one another, often times without even realizing it.

    So, yes, for us, that is moderation, and that is as far as it goes. We realized a long time ago that some people would want to post all sorts of off-topic and scandalous material. That is why we set up The Water Cooler forum @ Windows7Forums.com and also Cafe 8 here on Windows8Forums.com. Having a sense of humor or the capacity to enjoy life does not reflect negatively on a person as a human being. We will never be such prudes that we go against the very fabric of what makes us people.

    Don't get me wrong - there are a lot of great resources to be found on SevenForums. I only know that one experience I mentioned about trying to partner with them. It was never in their interest, and it seems they were tracking some random poster quite thoroughly up until the point that I responded to him. I have never seriously been offended by that site, personally, and in various meetings, I have pointed out that it is their right to run their website however they want. We take a more laid back approach here: focused more on moderating spam, providing content when possible, but relying on a community of active members and true enthusiasts to keep us afloat.

    A true forum user understands why we have to protect speech that they disagree with. It is very important that we do so. It follows a common law tradition that dates back to the days of the Magna Carta, coming full circle around the time of the signing of the Bill of Rights. If those values aren't protected on Internet forum sites, where else will you find them? My goal is to try to keep the website as unbiased as possible.

    I have no problem admitting I like Microsoft software - certainly not all of it. I prefer MySQL vs. MS-SQL. I like Android better than Windows Phone. Once we have to start picking and choosing who we like and who we don't like, we go down a slippery slope. In that world, people like whoosh get banned for having a sense of humor. And great contributors like the rest of you never get to contribute anything.

    For so long as I can help it, that day will never happen here.
     
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  14. Andrea Borman

    Andrea Borman Honorable Member

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    It seems that a lot of people have been banned from Seven Forums when they should not have been banned. Either they committed a minor offence or did nothing at all.

    But as I said,Seven Forums are very strict. And it seems they are more selective than other forums about who they take on as members.

    And of course any forum has a right to ban you for a reason or no reason. And a forum also has a right to refuse membership to anyone.And they do not have to give a reason why. It is their website so they can do what they want as someone else told me.

    But I think Seven Forums are going over the top of things just banning people they don't like from their forum. Andrea Borman.
     
  15. Mike

    Mike Windows Forum Admin
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    It is true that they can ban people for whatever reason they want. It doesn't mean that other people won't take notice. It has not affected me directly, and it is not something I dwell on or care much about. If they want to run things like a VIP club, they certainly can. I'd feel better knowing that my information is welcome and secure some place that is more open to conversation. That's just my take, but sorry to read you all had a difficult time there. Best, Mike.
     
  16. Andrea Borman

    Andrea Borman Honorable Member

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    So Mike,you were once a member of Seven Forums and got banned from there for no reason like we did? But I am not upset. If we got banned for doing nothing bad then we should not worry.

    But if we got banned for doing something really bad then we should be ashamed. But we did not do anything wrong.

    I got banned from two forums in 24 hours. First Seven Forums for thanking a member for liking my video. And then a few hours later Expert Law forums for posting about my ban from Seven Forums.

    But Expert Law forums have also banned a lot of people for no reason. And also based on what I read they have upset other members by winding them up. Like they wound me up. The members have argued with the members that upset them and have ended up being banned.

    It's their thing over there. A lot of the members of Expert Law forums like to wind other members up. Andrea Borman.
     
  17. Mike

    Mike Windows Forum Admin
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    No, I was never a member there. My point is that they rejected any affiliation with Windows7Forums.com based on the actions of a malicious member and ill-taken comments about their site that were made on Windows7Forums.com (this was, quite literally, years ago, around 2009). I have never maintained a membership there, but have browsed the site from time to time. They can deny access to anyone they see fit because they are paying for the private property that the website is hosted on. Good night :)
     
  18. davehc

    davehc Microsoft MVP
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    Re: Win 8 and me

    I have been an established member of SF for some years. Unfortunately, the Administrator, although , from his flow of information, is certainly head high above alleged "experts", he is a minority voice. The forum has some notable helpers, whose advice can be relied on. Unfortunately, though, about 80% of the posts are pure waffle, from posters apparently only interested in a post count. I visit rarely now, because of this. It is extremely difficult, even on a daily basis, to plough through the mass of rubbish to find the "nitty gritty".
    Unfortunately, the trend has now continued on to the partner Windows 8 forum, 3 or 4 pages daily, most have little real content relating to Windows 8. To my loss, I have now moved it down my favourite list for visiting priority.
     
    #18 davehc, Mar 20, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 20, 2012
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  19. Drew

    Drew Banned

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    Re: Win 8 and me

    Very sad that something or someone should make good, long-standing contributors feel like leaving or visiting only rarely. It is upsetting to see this, to learn of it. It is understandable but, still sad & not what one wants to see from valuable helpers. Most of us just want to have some fun & do some good (for others) whilst we volunteer our time & interest.
     
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  20. Andrea Borman

    Andrea Borman Honorable Member

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    Re: Seven Forums.

    It is a shame that Seven Forums chooses to be so strict.

    I have read their site many times and they have some really good tutorials. And tips and tricks on how tweak Windows 7 to make it better. And they were the first people to show us how to change the desktop wallpaper in Windows 7 Starter. And they host the software Oceanis.

    However the rules are different. They are very strict. Andrea Borman.
     

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