win7 and xp problem

hamco

New Member
#1
I have an acer aspire netbook(XP) and a desktop (windows 7) a thomson router and a printer.I had them working together in a network but it's broken. I can access my desktop from the netbook and internet access is ok from both and so is the printer, but I can't access the netbook from the desktop, though I've tried everything I can think of. I've checked workgroup and computer names,file sharing,services started,guest accounts etc. I can see the netbook from the desktop, but can't get access. One other thing puzzles me which I don't know if it's relevant is, in windows 7 it won't let me turn on network discovery in network and sharing. It's obviously not stopping the netbook accessing files on the desktop, but I thought I should be able to change things if I wanted. Any help would be much appreciated.
Thanks
 


Trouble

Noob Whisperer
#2
Hello and welcome to the forum.
First double check and confirm that you are not running any third party software products like Firewalls (Comodo, ZoneAlarm, etc.,) or third party security suites like (AVG, Norton/Symantec, McAfee, etc.,) that might be causing the issues. Such third party software suites that are not properly configured can produce problems similar to what you are experiencing. So you can either uninstall them or check the product documentation for proper configuration of trusts among network nodes.
Then try this,
enable NetBIOS over TCP/IP in the properties of IPv4, under the WINS tab, within the properties of your network interface card.
type
services.msc
into the search box and hit enter
confirm that the following services are started, consider setting the startup type to automatic
Computer Browser
Function Discovery Provider Host
Function Discovery Resource Publication
Network Connections
Network List Service
Network Location Awareness
Network Store Interface Service
Server
SSDP Discovery
TCP/IP NetBIOS Helper
Workstation
Regards
Randy
 


hamco

New Member
#3
Thanks for replying, I did as you suggest with enable TCP/IP etc and with the services, although I don't have entries for Function Discovery and Network List or Store.I assume you're talking about XP here. I had Zone Alarm firewall which when updated seemed to be causing a problem so I did a system restore and everything worked apart from being able to access the Netbook from the win 7 desktop. I uninstalled Zone Alarm and installed Comodo, I also have Avast ant virus, but I think that's ok. Not sure what you mean by check the documentation for proper configuaration of trusts in network nodes.
 


Trouble

Noob Whisperer
#4
Thanks for replying, I did as you suggest with enable TCP/IP etc and with the services, although I don't have entries for Function Discovery and Network List or Store.I assume you're talking about XP here. I had Zone Alarm firewall which when updated seemed to be causing a problem so I did a system restore and everything worked apart from being able to access the Netbook from the win 7 desktop. I uninstalled Zone Alarm and installed Comodo, I also have Avast ant virus, but I think that's ok. Not sure what you mean by check the documentation for proper configuaration of trusts in network nodes.
Nope, I am talking about Windows 7
Function Discovery Resource Publication
Publishes this computer and resources attached to this computer so they can be discovered over the network. If this service is stopped, network resources will no longer be published and they will not be discovered by other computers on the network.
Function Discovery Provider Host
Discovery (FD) network discovery providers. These FD providers supply network discovery services for the Simple Services Discovery Protocol (SSDP) and Web Services – Discovery (WS-D) protocol. Stopping or disabling the FDPHOST service will disable network discovery for these protocols when using FD. When this service is unavailable, network services using FD and relying on these discovery protocols will be unable to find network devices or resources.
Network List Service
Identifies the networks to which the computer has connected, collects and stores properties for these networks, and notifies applications when these properties change.
Network Store Interface Service
This service delivers network notifications (e.g. interface addition/deleting etc) to user mode clients. Stopping this service will cause loss of network connectivity. If this service is disabled, any other services that explicitly depend on this service will fail to start.
While XP and Win7 share similar services and some may be available in both OSs, The ones listed above are present in my Windows 7 Ultimate (64bit) installation but I can not say that they are present and available in all versions of Windows 7 and since you don't say specifically which Version of Windows 7 you are using I just provided a list of general services that may require attention and consideration.
Virtually all top tier security vendors whether firewalls or other internet security suites require configuration adjustments to provision for various aspects of networking node to node. Sometimes they are described as trusts or trusted, yours may use different terminology. I would think that before swapping out one product for another you might try removing them all temporarily, relying on the built in Windows Firewall product and perhaps a much more network friendly Antivirus / Antimalware suite like Microsoft Security Essentials and determine whether or not your network, works as expected.
Very often successful and complete removal of such third party products require the use of vendor specific proprietary removal tools so you may need to check Google and see what might be available to get rid of all remnants of previously installed security products. It doesn't take much to cause such issues.
Regards
Randy
 


hamco

New Member
#5
Sorry, I was a bit confused whether it was XP or Win 7. I made all the changes you suggest in Win 7 and couldn't see the other computer on the network from either machine even after restart. Reversed enable netbios and could now access desktop from netbook, but still netbook not even listed on desktop whereas before although I couldn't access the netbook it could see it, I haven't reversed any of the other changes you suggested.Before I uninstall Comodo, can you tell me how I can get back to this position? The version of windows 7 I am using is home premium service pack 1 and on netbook it's XP Home vers 2002,service pack 3.
Thanks
 


Trouble

Noob Whisperer
#6
None of the things that I have suggested above should have any negative impact on your ability to network between the two PCs. In-fact they should have only enhanced and improved your machines ability to propagate NetBIOS information to each other. So I wouldn't recommend making any changes to anything you might have done in keeping with my earlier suggestion(s).
You should know that NetBIOS propagation can take some time and if you just started the services and didn't change their respective startup types then upon a reboot if the service was previously set to "manual" then it will not likely restart automatically.
Additionally you need to determine if you can ping each machine from the other (back and forth) by both IPv4 address and Machine Name (NetBIOS Name). Once you are able to do both successfully then you should examine the NetBIOS cache table on both machines by opening a command prompt and typing
nbtstat -c
You should see information regarding the remote machines NetBIOS name and associated IP address.
If you cannot successfully ping each machine from the other by both IP and Machine name then you have a security software issues (firewall, AV Suite, or possibly even the built in Windows Firewall) that is blocking the proper dissemination of NetBIOS information.
Share a folder on both machines and try to UNC to the share using first the IP address of the remote machine and then the NetBIOS name of the remote machine.
\\192.168.1.222\Sharename (where 192.168.1.222 is the IPv4 address of the remote machine and Sharename is the name of the folder that you have shared)
then
\\MachineName\ShareName (where MachineName is the actual name (NetBIOS) of the remote machine and ShareName is the name of the folder that you have shared)
Good luck
Randy
 


hamco

New Member
#7
thank you for your patience. I can ping the desktop using it's computer name and it returns an ip address. When I try to ping the netbook I get request timed out. Nbtstat on netbook gives me local connection with 0s in the node address and wireless connection with a node ip address and a cache table with another ip address which it says is unique. Nbtstat on desktop gives local connection with a node ip address of 192.168, etc, then there's a cache table with the netbook's name and ip address. below that there's a wireless connection with 0s and no names in cache, then below that there;s wireless connectio 2 also with 0s and no names in cache. I have set up a shared folder on each as suggested but can't see either. I don't know what UNC means.I tried typing this into the command prompt with the format you gave but nothing happened.
 


Trouble

Noob Whisperer
#8
I can ping the desktop using it's computer name and it returns an ip address.
This is fine, that is what is suppose to happen
When I try to ping the netbook I get request timed out.
This is not fine and because of this problem you will likely continue to have NetBIOS issues between the two machines.
Nbtstat on netbook gives me local connection with 0s in the node address and wireless connection with a node ip address and a cache table with another ip address which it says is unique.
This is bad
Nbtstat on desktop gives local connection with a node ip address of 192.168, etc, then there's a cache table with the netbook's name and ip address.
This is good.

I have set up a shared folder on each as suggested but can't see either.
I don't know what UNC means.I tried typing this into the command prompt with the format you gave but nothing happened.
UNC means "Universal Naming Convention" and refers to at method of accessing network resources as I described above.
Hold the windows logo key while striking the "r", this will bring up the run dialog box. In the run dialog box type
\\TheIPaddressOfTheRemoteMachine\ShareNameOfShareOnThatMachine
I gave as an example
\\192.168.1.222\Share
you will need to know the actual IP address of the other machine you are attempting to access as well as the share name of whatever resource on that machine you are attempting to access. If netBIOS name resolution is working properly you should be able to substitute the MachineName for the IP address.
It's a method that network administrators use without relying on the computer browser service. If you know the IP address of your file server is 192.168.1.10 you just type \\192.168.1.10 into the run dialog box and up pops your shares on your file server.
 


hamco

New Member
#9
Thanks,turning the computer on today, I can now see and access the shared folder I set up on the desktop from the netbook. I did \\ipaddress\share name into netbook and then desktop and got network path was not found,same with computer name. There's also a nbtstat-n which you probably know about.On the desktop this gives local connection, netbios table with the desktop name twice,status -unique,and registered then below that it's HOME twice which is the network name twice,status- group,then registered, no mention of netbook specifically. Then it's wireless connection Node ip address with 0s,no names in cache and wireless connection 2 the same.On netbook this gives local connection node ip of 0s,no names in cache,wireless node ip address 192.168 etc,then netbios table with name of netbook twice,type- unique,registered,then HOME 3 times,with type- group twice and unique once,then registered,below that is MSBROWSE,type- group,registered.I have Avast and comodo on the netbook, I did have Zonealarm, but think I've uninstalled it. On the desktop I have Avg and windows firewall.I have read that you need an additional firewall in XP. If I uninstall all of them I need to it in the right order.
 


Trouble

Noob Whisperer
#10
Can you please confirm that you can ping the desktop from the notebook by IP address and get four successful replies?
Can you please confirm that you can ping the notebook from the desktop by IP address and get four successful replies?
Can you please confirm that you can open the run dialog box from the desktop and type in
\\IpAddressOfNotebook (present IPv4 Address of notebook, that's all nothing else)
and hit enter and see the shares on the notebook.
Can you please confirm that you can open the run dialog box from the notebook and type in
\\IpAddressOfDesktop (present IPv4 Address of desktop, that's all nothing else)
and hit enter and see the share on the desktop
 


#11
yes, I can Ping desktop from netbook,I get 4 replies mentioning bytes,time and ttl.I can ping notebook from desktop and get 4 replies. Opening run and using ip address of netbook on the desktop gives me the network page with users share, but it's the folders on the desktop that I am sharing with the netbook.I can't access the netbook.Doing the same on the netbook I get the folders I am sharing with the desktop.
 


Trouble

Noob Whisperer
#12
yes, I can Ping desktop from netbook,I get 4 replies mentioning bytes,time and ttl.I can ping notebook from desktop and get 4 replies. Opening run and using ip address of netbook on the desktop gives me the network page with users share, but it's the folders on the desktop that I am sharing with the netbook.I can't access the netbook.Doing the same on the netbook I get the folders I am sharing with the desktop.
Either one of us is having a communications / understanding issue or you have a duplicate name or IP address problem on the network. Machine names and IP addresses must be unique to individual network nodes and no duplicates can be permitted.
If you are on the desktop and typing the IP address of the netbook into the run dialog box (as in \\192.168.nnn.nnn) and hitting enter and you get the share window of the desktop, something is definitely wrong.
Perhaps we need to get back to basics.
On both machines open a command prompt and type
ipconfig /all >desktop\ipconfig.txt
That will put a text file called ipconfig.txt onto each desktop. Would you please attach both to your next post, and perhaps rename them logically to something like DesktopIpConfig.txt and NoteBookIpConfig.txt, just to maintain my sanity.
 


#13
I am very grateful for your assistance in all of this, I feel a bit like a red indian with a mirror. I haVE done as you ask and the files should be attached, described as you suggest.
thanks
 


Attachments

Trouble

Noob Whisperer
#14
OK, nice job.
On the netbook, sit down, click the start orb and type
ncpa.cpl
into the search box and hit enter
Select then right click the wireless adapter (Ethernet adapter Wireless Network Connection) Atheros AR5B95 Wireless Network Adapter, and choose properties
In the middle box labeled This connection uses the following items:
select Internet Protocol Version 4 and click the properties button
Click the advanced button
Select the WINS tab
Click the radio button that says "Enable NetBIOS over TCP/IP
And OK your way back out of there and reboot the netbook.
Now from the netbook
hold the Windows Logo Key and hit the "r" key to bring up the run dialog box and type
\\192.168.1.65
hit enter and wait a minute
tell me what comes up.
 


#15
what comes up is 2 things, users folder and printer and faxes. The users folder contains all the shared files on the desktop.
 


Trouble

Noob Whisperer
#16
what comes up is 2 things, users folder and printer and faxes. The users folder contains all the shared files on the desktop.
OK, that is as it should be.
Now from the desktop
hold the Windows Logo Key and hit the "r" key to bring up the run dialog box and type
\\192.168.1.64
hit enter and wait a minute
tell me what comes up.
 


#17
ignore this
 


Attachments

#18
After about 3 minutes of inactivity, I get a network error dialog box saying Windows cannot access \\192.168.1.64, check spelling etc.
 


Trouble

Noob Whisperer
#19
OK, I'll ignore that.

After about 3 minutes of inactivity, I get a network error dialog box saying Windows cannot access \\192.168.1.64, check spelling etc.
OK. I need to take a look at other potential issues. It looks to me like something (software) is blocking networking traffic and it's likely on the netbook, since you seem to be able to access the desktop from the netbook, but the netbook is not accepting inbound connections.
On the netbook.
Please click the start orb and type
msinfo32
and hit enter
In the system information utility click file->save
give it a name (netbook.nfo) should be fine
save it to your desktop
give it a minute or so to finish
Now look for netbook.nfo on your desktop
right click it and choose
send to->Compressed (zipped Folder)
This will create a second file on your desktop called netbook.zip
Attach that to your next post by clicking reply
Then Go advanced
Then use the paper clip icon from the tool/menu bar of the editor to browse to and upload the netbook.zip file from your desktop. Click done and post it.
Double check and make sure that the IP address of the netbook hasn't changed due to some reboots or extended down time.
 


#20
Is this what your looking for?
 


Attachments

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