* for desktops

Discussion in 'Windows 8 Help and Support' started by mrbadness, Dec 25, 2012.

  1. mrbadness

    mrbadness New Member

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    Take away the start menu and you get windows 7. I don't see much difference
     
  2. AceInfinity

    AceInfinity Senior Member
    Microsoft MVP

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    You mean *Add? :friendly_wink: And there's much more different than that. How about being able to natively mount an ISO file as a virtual device drive without any software? Built in AV (MSE - Better than the former Windows Defender that we seen in previous Windows)? Better functionality with searching? Hyper-V? DirectX Desktop?... You're missing or perhaps forgetting lots of features that Windows 8 provides in relation to Windows 7.

    Here's an analogy, 'just because you can't see wind doesn't mean it doesn't exist'.

    ~Ace
     
    #22 AceInfinity, Dec 29, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 29, 2012
  3. mrbadness

    mrbadness New Member

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    What else has windows 8 have to offer
     
  4. AceInfinity

    AceInfinity Senior Member
    Microsoft MVP

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    -Microsoft account integration
    -New detailed TaskManager
    -Windows To Go
    -Windows Live Syncing
    -Improved and faster search performances ($MFT enumeration speed?)
    -Native USB 3.0 Support
    -Better multi-monitor support
    -Storage Spaces
    -"Snap" apps feature
    -Improved Explorer (embedded functionality)
    -Better backup and restore options
    -Hybrid boot
    -Built in PDF reader support
    -Improved disk cleanup utility
    -More...
     
  5. tanzanos

    tanzanos New Member

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    Although I tend to agree with you, I do however feel that most of the advantages you post are not enough to make one like me take the plunge.

    Win 7 has a very inefficient search and lacks classic menus; Other than that is is really all that I need. Windows 8 has to offer much more if it is to convince people like me to upgrade.

    I am sure that hidden within windows 8 are features that are good but Microsoft could have implemented these in a service pack for win7.

    I feel that windows 8 will be popular with touch screen devices such as tablets and smart phones but on PCs it will be divided between enterprise and professional users vs home users. Most home users will not have a problem with win 8 especially if they are new to windows. Such users do a lot of social networking and gaming although even here win 7 caters very well to these needs.

    Only time will tell how well win 8 will fare.

    Perhaps Microsoft will improve win 7 with a new SP and reinstate the start button in win 8. This will go a long way to please the client base.

    Have a happy new year everyone! :)
     
  6. Medico

    Medico Senior Member

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    There will be no more major service packs on Win 7 if history is an indication.
     
  7. Joe S

    Joe S Excellent Member

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    Many of those features the average user won't even notice. MSE keeps scoring low in AV tests I went back to Avast, Hyper V seems to have a lot of issues, most low end users don't even know what an ISO is, I believe Windows To Go is only available in the Enterprise edition, Windows Backup hasn't been overly reliable on the past. So time will tell how sucessfull it will be on desktops.
    Joe
     
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  8. AceInfinity

    AceInfinity Senior Member
    Microsoft MVP

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    This was tested with MSE 4.0, while the latest version keeping in mind, is 4.1.

    http://www.av-comparatives.org/images/docs/avc_fdt_201209_en.pdf

    Now if you look at the detection rates, Microsoft is lower on the end of these top AV's that have been tested, but if you scroll down the page, it has the least false positives. (0.)

    http://www.av-comparatives.org/images/docs/avc_fps_201209_en.pdf

    My final notes with MSE is that it's also less of a memory hog than most other AV's, and memory leaks are at an all time minimum as far as i've seen which positively effects the stability of the program in the long run, as well as the overall performance of your system.

    Performance wise, it scored really high as well: http://www.av-comparatives.org/images/docs/avc_per_201210_en.pdf

    AV-Comparatives is a fairly reputable source too...

    Avast as far as I know is very unstable, and has caused countless BSOD's from my experience with online consumers. AVG is really sketchy, I'm not a fan, for several reasons. It's had a bad reputation for file detection, and in addition to that, regardless of the free or paid edition, it also (*chuckes*), really looks ugly for the way it manages itself on your system... If you can imagine a messy room with clothes all over the floor and basically anything else your imagination can come up with, that's the way it treats your filesystem for when you allow it to "move in" upon installation. I think part of this un-organized behavior is partial to blame for the BSOD's i've seen related to it as well. But I haven't seen any where MSE is to blame yet. Norton, a few, but it and BitDefender, I am a fan of, as long as you have 2010 or higher for the version of Norton you are running, because they dramatically improved the performance and memory consumption from that point on, but, BOTH have great detection rates, and good features. Norton has a great firewall.

    Actually, back when I had an interest in analyzing malware on a core level, I figured that Norton actually had a good chance of standing up for itself against the intrusions. Not just some lame features that you see in some of today's AV's. Ransomware for instance, in my opinion the worst kind of virus you can get... For a few incidences that i've had, Norton had stuck up for itself before the trojan was able to lock the files on my system, while other AV's i've tested didn't seem to even realize what was going on. That's my experiences though. I guess it would depend on what you have seen in the past, as to what your opinion is about certain things, but I have some respect for Symantec in the way it tackles system intrusions.

    I still see people today that hate Norton overall, because of their experiences with versions pre-dating Norton 2010. 2008 in particular, which was a complete memory hog. It would bog down the rest of the system itself so much that they couldn't hardly have 2 instances of a webbrowser open almost...

    Aside from that, I do agree with most of your post. I can understand that the needs of a computer user differ from person to person. Each computer user will have different needs, and with that, probably affects their decision on the type of operating system they get(?), hardware, software, etc... For me, I think these features are great, because I am a computer explorer, and programmer. The way things work on a core level and within the kernel itself, interests me, so my range of interests are fairly vast when it comes to computers, regardless of the OS I have. It's a learning tool for me.

    From my knowledge, perhaps the reason why you'll want to upgrade to Windows 8 in the future, would be that Windows 7 is no longer considered very secure, either because of the fact that it's been out on the market long enough for people to discover some big flaws with it, or because Microsoft is no longer releasing security patches for it. You will want to move to a more secure system, especially if you use your computer for things like online banking and all of that. Aside from that though, I can understand.

    I can't change people's opinions about Windows 8, I just like explaining some of the things Microsoft "did" to Windows 8, in efforts to explain why it's different from the previous Windows. I too at one point did not enjoy Windows 8, but I was like most of the people that say "Take away the start button from Windows 7 and you have Windows 8". That's far from the truth though...

    ~Ace
     
    #28 AceInfinity, Dec 30, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 30, 2012
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  9. Richard Gilbertson

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    That would be mostly a lie. It takes more mouse clicks to get where you are going in Windows 8 then Window 7 as you have to drill down to the item to get to it. Control panel is an example of hard to get to and you cannot just show control panel on the desktop in an easy manner. Metro forces more bad changes for the user then it offers advantages.
    In normal use attempting to do something easy like look at 3 files I am editing at same time is impossible in Metro as you only get 2 screens and cannot ever read one of them. Add to this the problem of opening another file closes the one open. Clearly no muti-purpose in the design for normal users or you have to learn a vast number of keyboard shortcuts. Windows 95 to Windows 7 could be run with only the mouse, Windows 8 not possible.
    Lastly when Windows 8 does crash you are in limbo as to what is wrong. I
     
  10. Drew

    Drew Banned

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    It would be good if the myth that Windows 8 is not made for or ignores conventional, non-Touch PCs & laptops ceased to be propagated. It is very, incorrectly & unfairly misleading to people. It is, also, not true that there is an effort afoot to 'kill' desktop PCs. Merely as computing landscape (use, needs) and society change & evolve so does the attention to mobility.

    Windows 8, in all its forms, takes that step in the future to cover all bases & devices.

    It takes fewer clicks, time & effort to find or access things or navigate in Windows 8 than w/ any prior Windows OS. And there are simple ways this can be increased even further... and w/out adding Classic Shell, Start8 or using Start or WinQ... strictly @ or from Desktop.

    Case in point: http://windows8forums.com/windows-8-start-screen-desktop/17838-win8-desktop-approach-you-might-like.html

    Cheers,
    Drew
    Win8Logo.
     
  11. davehc

    davehc Microsoft MVP
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    "It takes more mouse clicks to get where you are going in Windows 8 then Window 7 as you have to drill down to the item to get to it."
    This statement needs some amplification. In what way do you find you need more mouse clicks? Why is the control Panel harder to get to:

    Through the Modern - one click

    View attachment 1043

    With classic: again, one click

    View attachment 1044
     
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  12. Drew

    Drew Banned

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    And on Desktop:
    1. Power Users menu CP & lots of other good stuff is 'right there' Can't provide a screen shot, just Rt Clk bottom-left Corner.
    2. Desktop Toolbar, also, offers direct access to CP, including ALL Items and much more

    Screenshot (16).JPG

    Windows 8 offers more direct, more efficient, quicker, easier access to many, many things than there ever has been!

    I have read & listen to a lot over the past year. To say Windows 8 is slow, awkward, time-consuming, tedious, fastidious or difficult to use & or navigate... @ this point in time, I cannot mince words...it is not

    Heck you can even get to absolutely every application, Store or otherwise, w/out even changing screens (or leaving Desktop). If using 8 is not smooth, seamless & swift for you, it is how you are NOT using but, NOT the fault of the OS.

    Cheers,
    Drew
    Win8Logo.
     

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