Intermittent loss of connection - default gateway cannot be detected

Discussion in 'Windows 10 Networking' started by GeneralHiningII, Aug 28, 2016.

  1. GeneralHiningII

    GeneralHiningII Honorable Member

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    @kemical what's your speed like? I've personally never been a fan of it simply because I think it's rather gimmicky and honestly I don't have trouble with downloads managing (e.g. I'll pause steam downloads to finish syncing onedrive or something, but beyond that it's not a big deal). I'll give it a try now and report back later to see if it works though, thanks!
     
  2. GeneralHiningII

    GeneralHiningII Honorable Member

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    @kemical

    It doesn't seem to work.

    Other things that I've found recently:

    Ran system file checker and it said that it found corrupted files that it was unable to fix.

    I can't update to the anniversary edition of Windows 10 through Update - it gives error code 0x80240031. I've tried running troubleshooter through admin privileges and it doesn't fix anything either.

    In some websites, it doesn't load at all - Chrome, firefox, and edge aren't able to, and they give the error message that connection has been reset. I've tried the same on other devices and it gives the same error, so it might be a problem with my router?
     
  3. BIGBEARJEDI

    BIGBEARJEDI Honorable Member
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    Regarding your attempt at updating to the Anniversary Update (AU) through update, that appears to be normal. Take a look at this thread here dealing with this problem: Windows 10 - Have they fixed the Windows 10 AU issues?.

    So you know, I've attempted the AU update since it's release back on August 2nd this year (last month), and it hasn't worked on any of my five(5) W10 machines.:headache: Reading through this thread and searching through the other 4 or 5 threads here on WF you'll find that only 1 person has gotten this update to install successfully without problems; at that was only this past week. Up until then, we had zero confirmed reports of anyone being able to get the Update to work. It's not a problem with your computer, but rather with the AU update process at Microsoft's end. We began reporting the problem on other Tech forums as well as this forum and also reported it directly to Microsoft on their Insider Tester forum, which is the forum for people like me who helped Beta test W10. The update didn't come into any of my computers for almost 6 weeks after the supposed AU update release date, Aug. 2nd as mentioned.

    So, there is nothing wrong with your router as far as the failed W10 AU update is concerned. It doesn't work correctly.:down: If you read the thread I linked you to above, the people posting on that thread are very knowledgeable on W10 and were also W10 Beta testers same as me. The problem with your Internet is NOT related to the AU update failure, nor would the AU update fix your Internet driver problem since it seems to have the opposite effect on corrupting previously working drivers including NIC, GPU, Audio and Video adapters, as well as apps such as Chrome & Firefox.

    <<<BBJ>>>
     
  4. GeneralHiningII

    GeneralHiningII Honorable Member

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    It's funny though, because I have a surface pro 3 and
    AU installed perfectly fine on that one (was downloaded through the same wifi connection to router as the one on PC), but it's not working for my PC.

    Anywho, even ignoring that error, there's still the problem that sites don't seem to load on my PC. So currently this is what I've eliminated it to -

    On the router that I've used for the past couple years, I can't seem to get to certain sites. Either Chrome, firefox, and edge say "connection reset", or it'll load a super barebones (i.e. basic HTML, no nice UI or anything) version of the site, which I can't use.

    This is the same for all devices that are going through the router - my phone, surface, and PC.

    If I change it to a different connection - in this case, mobile data tethering from phone via USB, the sites load fine (so in this case, I'm bypassing both my ADSL cable and router).

    I've just tried swapping out my router for another, and the sites don't seem to load. However, the router I'm swapping out for has a couple problems:

    - it can't load www.google.com but it can load www.google.com.au
    - it can't load any other site (e.g. wikipedia, youtube, telstra - the ISP that gave me the router)

    which leads me to think that this 2nd router is just all round bad.

    Therefore - it is either a problem with my router or the internet connection itself.

    I'm not sure how to continue testing from this point though.
     
  5. kemical

    kemical Windows Forum Admin
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    Sorry General I seem to have missed your posts..
    Well to be honest awful. I live in a block of apartments and to upgrade the line means everyone in the block has to upgrade which isn't going to happen anytime soon.
    So I put up with around 3.5mb download speed. As i said earlier though I can use the network suite to split that 3.5mb so that I can download stuff and watch films online at the same time.
    So for example let's say i'm downloading a game to steam and it's currently using almost all of the available bandwidth. If one opens the Killer network manager (which you would have set up earlier inputting your correct network speeds) followed by Applications you'll see the download stream for steam as well as other streams used by various apps. You can use these moveable sliders on each stream to determine how much bandwidth the stream should have. I basically move the slider so that steam is only getting 1mb of bandwidth and the rest can be used by whatever.... My explanation is probably very poor but do have a play around although if you have a good download speed you may not need to use it?
     
  6. GeneralHiningII

    GeneralHiningII Honorable Member

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    Yeah I've got that figured out, but I think the problem now is something different (see other posts).
     
  7. kemical

    kemical Windows Forum Admin
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    Is there any chance you simply borrow a router to test? If all runs as it should then you know it's your routers at fault?
     
  8. GeneralHiningII

    GeneralHiningII Honorable Member

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    Well first, I installed the Killer network suite, should I set it to run at startup or can I disable it? Would it make a difference either way?
     
  9. Neemobeer

    Neemobeer Windows Forum Team
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    It probably adds some functionality, but only the driver is really needed to connect.
     
  10. BIGBEARJEDI

    BIGBEARJEDI Honorable Member
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    You might consider that your ADSL modem is bad; those also go bad just like routers do. When faced with this kind of problem, and after replacing my router as you did (good job there!) the problem persists, it's quite likely that your ISP has changed something in their network and your ADSL modem may need a firmware update. (they do this every couple of years or so). It's best to call them on the phone and ask them to run what we call an "end-to-end" test on your Modem. This will determine if they can update the Modem firmware remotely or not. They may try this and everything will magically be fixed. :up: This has happened to me with a number of clients on both Verizon(now Frontier) and Charter, 2 of our main ISPs here where I live.

    It might clear up some things if we knew the EXACT version of W10 you are running as there are now dozens of versions out there since W10 release date of 7.29.2015. Click on the Start button in W10, and use the <windows-logo-key> + <R-key>which brings up the run command box. Type in the command "winver" into and W10 will pop up a box similar to this: W10 WINVER CMD STUDIO540 9-17-16.JPG
    **NOTE: we need both the Version number (ver.1511 here) as well as the OS Build number (B10586.589) show in the picture above here in the Red Box.

    If the problem persists after your ISP (Telstra?) tests your Modem and attempts to install a firmware update is that they may tell you one of 2 things: (1.) Your Modem failed the firmware update, so they have to send you another one; or (2.) You Modem completed the update, but your problem persists. If it's #1, then you just need to wait for a few days for them to send you a replacement; plug in and retest. If it works, problem fixed!:up: If it's #2, then you'll need to insist that they resolve the problem as you believe it's on their end in their equipment. :headache: At that point, I usually insist that the ISP send out me or the Customer I'm helping a brand new Modem regardless. The phone support tech will resist doing this, so you will most likely need to speak with a Supervisor and possibly threaten to leave them if they don't do this. In most instances, when they send you a replacement Modem, things will then work.:up: If they still don't you will have to stay on them until they fix it. This happened with me with Verizon back in the beginning of this year. They sent me a new Modem. Still couldn't fix it. After 3 weeks of no Internet, I gave up and switched to a different ISP! No problems so far. :)

    There are no guarantees this will work, but it might be worth trying. It appears that there is something different hardware-wise going on in your PC than in your Surface Pro3. Is that PC a self-built rig? Would you mind providing us with system specs? Make/Model Mobo, GPU card, CPU chip, PSU Make/Model/Wattage. This might provide us with some insight into why the Surface Pro works and your PC does not. In the meantime, hope that the call to the ISP to test your Modem and update or replace it might solve the problem in the meantime.

    Keep us posted.
    <<<BIGBEARJEDI>>>
     
  11. GeneralHiningII

    GeneralHiningII Honorable Member

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    @Neemobeer I've been thinking the same thing, and that's what I've been doing before this problem, but obviously because of the problem, either it's not a driver issue or it matters?

    @BIGBEARJEDI

    I'm on Version 1511 OS Build 10586.589.

    The PC is self built.

    Specs: i5 4670k, MSI Z87 G45 mobo, MSI GTX 680, PSU is Corsair HX 750. However, this problem has never occurred before, during both windows 7 and 10 installs (other than the past couple weeks).
     
  12. Neemobeer

    Neemobeer Windows Forum Team
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    Its a layer 2 network issue. When data is sent between devices on the same lan layer 2 is used (mac addresses). Mac addresses are learned dynamically by sending out an arp request. Your computer will need to send to the gateway to reach the Internet and will literally send a arp request that says who has 192.168.1.254 tell <insert your address> the router should reply with its mac. So either the router is not replying, or your nic isnt receiving the reply
     
  13. GeneralHiningII

    GeneralHiningII Honorable Member

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    That's essentially what I've figured out (though with less technical words), thanks.

    Also, a couple extra things:

    For some reason, @BIGBEARJEDI - the anniversary update has ran through my PC and worked for some reason. So, it's running now and I'll give it a try for a few days. Killer also released a new driver package which I've installed, and I'll see how that one works too.
     
  14. BIGBEARJEDI

    BIGBEARJEDI Honorable Member
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    Hi General,
    I know, it came into my laptop last week and scrambled it. I decided to Clean Install W10 over it with the latest edition and that worked pretty good. It came into my desktop PC on Tuesday of this week and scrambled that one too! I spent a couple of days trying to fix it, no good, so I just rolled it back to Wed. morning via Macrium Image restore. I then turned off WUDO, and oddly when I got up this morning, and tried to log in Update had done it again, even though I disabled updates and stuck the new AU version in there. This time it seemed to work better, as it didn't remove my Wallpaper, though it did remove my sidebar gadgets and I had to reinstall most of those manually. Other apps especially the Internet seemed to be working normally for the most part. Thanks for posting your W10 version number for us as well as your hardware specs.:up: Looks like you have a solid build there.:congratulatory:

    Just so you know, you don't have the latest version, you are on the pre-AU version still. Latest version I now have on 4 of my 5 machines is v1607 b14393.187. I would stay where you are at until you get your Internet problem resolved. Then you should continue testing your Internet boxes as per my Post #30 above. Then and only then should you attempt to let the AU update into your computer. It still is presenting problems on 99% of the computers both here on WF and on other forums as well. Make sure to make an Image Backup of your v1511 system, and make sure to DISABLE the WUDO to prevent the AU update coming into your PC until you are ready for it.

    Based on the experience with my machines, it could take you up to 2 months to get your PC working correctly on the AU version (v1607); so you'll need to be patient. If you can't wait, backup all your stuff in 3 different places and do a Clean Install of the AU update (v1607) and the latest Killer drivers you mention and see how it goes. If you have an extra hard drive lying around I would switch back and forth between them. Use one you have now for the pre-AU configuration, and then have that 2nd HDD available to put in to experiment with the v1607 AU version upgrade or Clean Install and see how and if it works for you. At that point, you can switch over slowly to the 2nd HDD and switch your 1st HDD out to be the backup drive in case you run into an undiscovered issue with the new v1607 AU version. We also recommend using Image backups (such as Macrium, Acronis, or EASETodo) on both those drives to make things easier for testing. New drives are under $60 US on ebay, amazon, or newegg for 1TB and under. On my W10 test machine I have 3 drives in there (2 on v1607 AU, and 1 drive on W7).

    Let us know how it goes.:)
    Best,
    BBJ
     
  15. GeneralHiningII

    GeneralHiningII Honorable Member

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    I'm on 1607 14393.222, not .187, so not sure what's up with that.
     
  16. Sonny

    Sonny Fantastic Member

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    16071493.222 is the latest version.
     
  17. Sonny

    Sonny Fantastic Member

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  18. BIGBEARJEDI

    BIGBEARJEDI Honorable Member
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    >>>You do have the latest; as I've mentioned, the AUs (the last 7 of them including the .222) fail to come in via automatic update without issue, so in order to get there from earlier versions of v1607 or v1511 you have to do a W10 Clean Install to get there. I just now as of today have 3 of my 5-W10 machines on .222. So, it took me a week to do it from my post last Friday. And last Friday, none of my machines would get to the new .222 even though it was mentioned here on WF that it was available. So, you are in good shape with the very latest version then. Thanks for the assist, Sonny. ;)<<<
    BBJ
     
  19. BIGBEARJEDI

    BIGBEARJEDI Honorable Member
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    General:
    The question now is that since you are on the latest AU version of W10, how is your computer working with regard to the original lost connection problem? Is it resolved or are you still testing it? :skull:

    In any case, if it is magically working now, I would definitely disable your Windows Updates and disable WUDO for a few months or more until we get more reports of stable W10 v1607 updates coming in. This is what the guys here recommended I do, since my older hardware seems to be more susceptible to damage incurred by new updates coming into my computer every other week or so. Like I said, if you get yourself another hard drive with the current stable build of W10 you have, you can leave the updates and WUDO enabled on that one, and use that drive as your test platform. If an new v1607 update comes in and scrambles it, no big deal just swap over to your stable HDD and go on about your business. You can reimage the 2nd test drive to an earlier version and keep playing with the frequent "computer killer" AU updates that are coming into to your computer without effecting your ability to do daily tasks such as surfing the web, checking email, facebook, and buying football tickets. Most of us here who are W10 Insider Testers have dedicated test machines to do just this as I've made mention of earlier in this thread. My W10 test machine now has 4 HDD's in it; 3 for W10 and 1 for W7 for experimenting with that older OS.

    Let us know where you're at.:D
    BBJ
     

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