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This is my first entry from my new Windows 8 computer.

I agree about not being intuitive!

I'm having a problem right now.

I'm trying to use the Mail App.
When I click on it, it offered the option to go to several different mail accounts not mine.

When I click on Add an account it says to go to settings and add an account.
When I go to settings there is no Add an account entry that I can see.

Now when I go to Mail is just shows me a screen with 2 tinted areas an nothing else.
No options, no anything.

This doesn't have to be like this, why didn't it just open an option to type in my account information the first time I clicked on Add an account?
What could be more obvious then that?

Why have to jump through all these hoops?

I'm about to give up and install Windows Live Mail.


Ok I was going to the wrong settings button.
I finally got to the add account window but when I type in my address and password it just sits there for ever and doesn't do anything.

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My advice here would be to Uninstall & Re-install the Mail APP.

Rt Clk it > Uninstall icon, Bar @ the bottom. Got Store, find Mail App, click it & hit Install.

That said, FWIW, we have never been very impressed w/ the Mail APP & have recommended some other (traditional) mail handler be used instead such as WL Mail, or MS Office Outlook.

And, might be a good time to remind... Charms & Settings go with whatever APP being run @ any given time, synced or dedicated to that particular APP.



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Hi Drew,

Yeah I finally figure that out.

I think I'll just stick with Windows Live Mail, it's working great.



This epic saga w/ tanzanos has raged for a long time. I, for one, gave up on it a while ago. We have responded to all of it in detail several times in several ways. All the technologies, methodologies, Features, all the new things, enhancements & improvements, the items specifically geared towards business environments... all of it. We have articulated ways that go straight to Desktop w/ the greatest of ease & speed; we have offered ways to totally avoid using the Start screen & Tiles, if one wants to do that; we have listed all the overt & all the under-the-covers; we have addressed comparisons to prior Windows; we have explained reasons for changes in the computing landscape, exemplified by Windows 8; we have stated that it IS & can be easy fun & productive to use. No matter any of our efforts does anything help & nothing changes... just keeps coming back @ everything or after everything w/ "not intuitive", more about start & UI and recently something about Search in both 7 and 8... the latter remains a complete mystery.

Anyway, have fun, all the more power to you, knock yourself out. You have our empathy & sympathy, we're routing for you, kudos for trying, mind you don't get too frustrated trying, though.

IF, you take no console from those 'in the know', don't try (w/out a chip on your shoulder) to learn & discover something for yourself then, yeah, maybe it'll never feel intuitive.

For some, like myself, we come to feel so 'at home' w/ Windows 8 could likely run all over the place in it w/ our eyes shut.

Anyway, can't help but, have a head & brick wall image come to mind. I can't feel like I'm being rash, mean, hash, not allowing for opinions or anything of the sort because, myself, I, already, put heaps of time, thought, caring & effort into this one; so have others.

It's not only been repetitious, but, has become monotonous and exhausting. We can't be condemned because we have really tried. Tag, you're it, now, I guess. Best of luck, mate.



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I'm feeling a strong pull urging me toward Classic Shell.
But I'm going to stick with this for a couple of days at least.


LOL, there you go, Mike

Folks, remember, there is no obligation to use an APP just cus it exists. Windows is a world of choices & options. Store APPs are an addition to that world... most do not coerce 'instead', not forced replacements of stuff we, already, have.


Mike check your PMs

lol, I know Drew, that's also the reason I asked him what made it bad. But to be honest, the items he responded are no disadvantage of Windows 8. It just works diffirently, and from my point of view, better. Now he can say blabla & blabla & blabla. In the end it always comes to the same. Boot doesn't goes to desktop, lack of classic Start Menu & search being lesser...

Those items are no disadvantages but more enhancements as they fasten the way you can work with your system. Start Screen offers much more ease to work with. To be honest, I truly don't miss the classic Start Menu, I've found how much easier it is to work with the Start Screen. No idea how he searches, but the search within Windows 8 works lots faster on my end & finds items much better...

I won't go any further into this with him, I help more then enough people with Windows/Mac's, as I'm a pc technician.
It feels like the people who insistantly wants a MAC (which in there case a MAC wouldn't be appropriate) & when they have it they come back (a month later or sooner) complaining that they can't run the software they need for there business... We told them about it before they bought it, but, people have libberty to choose & they have choosen... wrongly in there case :p

For the record, I rather help people & won't feed the troll in here (a)

'TDB' (Hate not knowing a person's name)

Yeah, interesting, eh?... you turn the question around and still get the same answer, lol.

1st of all, I am, also, an IT tech/consultant. W/out rehashing each point you've made suffice to say I agree.

It's just different. <--- bit of a 'so what' there. And, yes, better for all the reasons & in all the ways you (& I, before) have stated.
Been trying to tell people it (Win8) is nice and actually better in many ways, for many reasons on many levels for a long time. But, yeah, it sure is easy, quick & fun to use. Does the job well.

Myself, really, I'd pretty much quit using the pre-Win8 start orb & menu long before Win8. In 8 I use the odd APP but, I really, don't use the Start screen. I have a window, equivalent to WinQ, on the Desktop (Taskbar) & access everything from there. Might go to Start occasionally or for a Search... just kinda depends what my fingers do @ that moment, LOL.

As for MACs. They are good, very pricey, no joke to repair, off on their own planet and don't offer much room for customization or personalizing. Most, though, it is indeed a compatibility issue. I always tell clients, they are good but, they don't play well w/ others.

And then there are all the folks who think MACs are immune... OMG, what an immense myth!!

Yep, better to help people when we can, then waste time, space & writing, when we can't


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'TDB' (Hate not knowing a person's name)
Lol, actually my nick is holding my initials (but you couldn't know that) :p My name is Tom ;)

And yeah, his answer was exactly what I was expecting it to be, it gave me a big smile on my face too :p

Yeah, I chuckled, too.

Thank you all for your kind words. Anyone who has a legitimate complaint is automatically labelled a TROLL? WOW! the arrogance of MS must have rubbed off into some of the fan boys here.

I honestly give up; if you think you are having a hard time discussing with me then likewise I am having a hard time with you; I feel like I am knocking on a deaf man's door. Bravo to you fan boys who are extremely bright and unlike some of us users who are stupid, you will never accept a single critique on your precious OS.

I dislike MACs because they use a hide and seek philosophy and MS basically decided to go the way of APPLE (urgh!).

I remember MS insisting that win ME was perfect and there was nothing wrong with it and that people should get used to it and move on. Well I bought win ME and was very happy with it until it started crashing so often that I went back to win 98 SE.

I moved to XP and was very happy indeed (I used the classic menus option). Then came win 7 which I pre ordered and was very happy to install it (with great difficulty because it did not like one of my SATA cables). I was very upset at the lack of the classic menus option. But when CLASSIC SHELL came out I installed it and got to like win 7 very much as it has many improvements over XP. However win 7 search is very bad indeed.

I was very excited when windows 8 was announced and I really hoped it would be an improvement over win 7 (which it probably is in many ways) and that it would include the classic menus option. When I went to the university of Piraeus I had my first experience with win 8 and it was shocking. This was not windows; This was a new beast altogether. This was a chimera (part tablet/smartphone, and part PC OS).

Yes I am absolutely sure that win 8 has many hidden improvements but they mean nothing to a stupid user like me who has been using MS OS's since their first release and If it means I have to work harder just to navigate, and have to learn a totally new UI then I am sorry but all the frills and benefits simply go down the drain. I was and still am an avid supporter of windows (with the exception of 8). All I want is the return of the OPTIONS that allow me to work faster and customise my PC the way I like it!

MS exhibits the arrogance her due to a global monopoly. MS designed win 8 not with the user in mind but to open a new market and get the market share of tablets and smartphones. PC users got the short end of the stick.

You may praise and worship win 8 but this is not the way of progress. I have 5 international patents to my name and countless of successful products designs and I had to accept scrutiny and criticism and much more before the final product was realised and it was not only good but made the end users very happy. I listen to the end user no matter how stupid his or her criticism may sound.

I know that Drew has shown great patience and although he has lent his ear, he is deaf to negative criticism. Sorry guys but I am not a TROLL and I am honestly gobsmacked that you consider me one.:upset:

PS: If you think I am a TROLL then by all means delete my account with win 8 forums and be rid of me!

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I never called you 'troll' nor thought of you as such. Nor do I have a deaf ear, not @ all. I have listened to everything you have said. It is not fair of you to say I have a deaf ear because I cannot agree w/ you. You keep insisting things, even though I try to correct you or know differently... ergo it becomes hard to tell who is not receptive. For example:
I said Windows 8 is not for business. That is simple not true... business likes it & a huge amount of win8 design goals focus on Enterprise.

It's Search is even better than 7's. I still don't why so say 7's Search is bad. But, 8's Search is sure not bad.

You say it's only for mobile & PCs are being shafted... this is simply not true. I've been using the darn thing for almost a year on a non-touch PC and it terrific.

I work on IT helping customers. I have to be aware of everything, be it good or bad and objective. I try not to go ballistic @ being called a 'fanboy'. I'm not being paid by Microsoft nor giving an opinion... I try things and make observations.

I've owned from 98 to Windows 8. For clients, I've worked on 95, ME, 2k and MACs; I'll admit, I missed the glory days of MS DOS, I'm old but, got a late start, maybe.

I was thrilled to go from 98 to XP. I had no trouble w/ Vista but, we'll let that go. Windows 7 I always found impressive. But, there is no question Windows 8 is the best Microsoft as yet done.

It is not bad, it is just different and mostly, in a practical sense only cosmetically. Deep down it's just another Windows computer. People are yelling it being different, not the differences. So it's different, so what? Ever heard the expression, 'embrace change'?

It is not me who isn't listening. I tell you its design DID include PCs- you turn a deaf ear. I tell you business needs & concerns were high on the list of priorities - you turn a deaf ear. I tell you it can even be used w/out using the Start screen - you turn a deaf ear. I was willing to show you how easy it is to navigate - you turn a deaf ear. I articulated all sorts of things to aide in seeing it good be an enjoyable thing yet you continue to steadfastly say it stinks. Who is not listening. Then after I bother to answer you in depth, you ask the same again. I hear the negatives, I've been hearing them in several forums for months & in misleading articles written by people who are supposed to ACCURATELY informing the public and are supposed to know something about computers. But, because I hear something doesn't mean I should stand back quietly & say nothing when it doesn't hold water or the grounds for it are not actually there.

In my capacity as a consultant I have to give good advice & address myths. When people think MACs are immune, I'm going to shoot down the myth. When people say running a machine on the Net w/out security protection is ok, I'm going to set them straight.

And when people say or thing things about Windows 8 that don't apply, I'm not going to stand idly by & not try to convey reality to them. BUT, usually when I do address such things people listen and are accepting.

You have not demonstrated that. Instead, you restate your view & call people 'fanboy'. No matter what label you throw @ me, it doesn't undermine my credibility or the merit to what I've said it trying to speak to the truth of things. I don't think you a 'troll' nor stupid. And a person's feelings are real but, that does not mean those feeling are based on realities. If a person states a view & someone ( who knows it is skewed) says, "yes, but...", maybe there's a good reason to listen to them!

Consider this... what the hell sense would it make for me to personally use an Operating System non-stop for 10 months on a non-touch PC and say it works very nicely if it didn't?? That would be crazy, ridiculous & no help to anybody! Nor is it any help to bite my tongue when someone says it stinks on a regular PC... cus it's just not so. I do not want people mislead, misguided or misinformed. It does them no good, at all. I'm not trying to help MS, they make it w/ or w/out my help... I'm trying to help people w/ proper sound facts. Saying I like it, that's an opinion that people may or may not care about BUT, telling them it works well, telling them it can be enjoyable along w/ specific tips & instruction... that they may care about. I will always believe there is more value in discussing positives than negatives and dealing w/ what is, rather than dwelling on wanting things to be different.

Windows is different, not bad. In fact, it's very good. It's not only here... I've had friends say, "I heard..." I told them I've hear it too BUT... then I've sold these same folks on Win8, helped them get started w/ it & they turn around & say, "Wow, this is cool!". Being in IT is challenging enough but when you add in all the bloody misconceptions people supposedly in authority are giving people to read, all the bad press, it is a mountain to overcome it. But, I really don't let it bother me if someone calls me a 'fanboy' for trying.



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@ Tanzanos, I think you've debated extremely well. You haven't called anyone names or swore but have held a serious discussion on the pros and cons of Windows 8. Believe it or not but that's actually what the forum is about. Regardless of whether you like the latest and great from Microsoft this is purely a vessel for discussion (as well as help) and long may it be so......


@ Tanzanos, I think you've debated extremely well. You haven't called anyone names or swore but have held a serious discussion on the pros and cons of Windows 8. Believe it or not but that's actually what the forum is about. Regardless of whether you like the latest and great from Microsoft this is purely a vessel for discussion (as well as help) and long may it be so......

Thank you :) Small things make for a big difference. Believe it or not were it not for Classic Shell I would have gone back from win 7 to XP. This simple option of classic menus makes all the difference to me. I do not care about boot times and I set up my files the way I want them set. Unfortunately although I was really yearning for win 8 to hit the market with the hope that MS would reinstate the classic menus option I was in for a very rude awakening. The same goes for MS's RIBBON interface. Why on earth did MS remove the options of drop down menus and classic menus on their products?

Having options is vital in a field so varied as computers. Once more I cannot stress the fact that SUV's are a compromise and win 8 is the SUV of OS's. There is a trend to move away from PCs, both in the computing and games. Most games now are made for consoles and then ported over to PCs. This makes for downgraded games. The same goes for Win 8. It is a touch screen OS ported over to PCs.

I know I am repeating myself and I shall never tire of saying that MS and APPLE have removed the intuition from their OS's. Of course there are many who take easily to the new Win 8 UI but many of us simply have a very hard time doing so.

I for one am not convinced of the merits of win 8 over win 7. I really need a comprehensive comparison of win 8 vs win 7.

Does anyone know of a link that gives such a comparison and that is unbiased?

Is it true that win 8 does not support POP 3 accounts?

Also, does anyone remember the AZERTY keyboard layout? It is supposed to help in faster typing but QWERTY keyboards are still the mainstream after so many decades. People are more efficient when working in an environment they are familiar with. Imagine if MS changed the keyboard layout with every new OS? Of course the best solution would be to give the option of both keyboards when purchasing one! It all boils down to having options and not being force fed whatever the developers want.

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First of all I do wish to say I never called you a troll. What I was saying is that this thread felt more and more like a feeding a troll thread. Those are 2 diffirent items. Never wanted to give you the feeling of being insulted. If I did, then please do forgive me for that.
Also, I don't call myself a fanboy, but leaving that aside...

Windows 8 had a makeover regarding the looks/layout, that is no secret, everybody sees it when you start up your system if it holds Windows 8. Whether or not it is better or not, well, that depends mostly on how you look at things, how open minded you are towards changes and how you do use the items given towards you.

Saying Windows 8 is better or worse then it predecessors is something that is hard to say, especially since every single person has diffirent needs, wishes, desires, longings & expectations. Windows 8 is for every one diffirently.

I see that you truly does need the Classic Menu, but somehow I do feel that MS will not be bringing that back in, as they've moved on to a diffirent approuch. Thirth party programs will provide for you what you need, if not now then it'll in time. Same for booting directly towards the desktop without doing anything, 3th party programs will allow that for sure (or already do).

Windows 8 does support POP3/IMAP/MAPI/Exchange accounts with it's native mail app. Whether or not that app does fits the needs you have, that's a diffirent story. But if it doesn't, then you can always use other apps/applications who does what you need.

Surely I remember the Azerty keyboard layout as I'm from Belgium and we happen to work with Azerty keyboards. Though I don't see why typing with Azerty or Qwerty keyboards should offer faster typing. Depending on where you live, keyboard layouts seems to be Azerty or Qwerty. I personally can work with both without problems (a)

Programmers do create the programs to what they feel is good/best in the end. Programmers also provide us with the most important item they can offer us, freedom. To be more precise: the freedom to use there software or not. They will never force anybody to use there program/product.

I feel that what you really need to do is just work with Windows 8 for a while without any 3th party apps. Then you'll truly will see for yourself how Windows 8 rally works. If you would do that, have an open mind & be ready to work with something new.

Regarding the search tool in Windows 8, how/where do you use it?




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Microsoft Community Contributor
Hi again.

I've used Windows 8 for almost a year and I still feel that it is very un-intuitive.

I'm still using it on my new computer, but I will install Classic Shell when I really need to get to work.

It's just easier.

If someone starts in and learns Metro from scratch it probably makes sense.
Like people who learn to drive with an automatic it's easier to keep doing what you are familiar with.

I didn't, I learned on a stick and I now have a 6 speed manual.

It's just easier for me to stick with what I've used for many years.
Remember I never used Windows 7's interface stock either, i'm using something closer to Windows XP.

But the main thing is I don't see any advantage to using it.
Actually I do see the advantage of using an automatic transmission, but I still prefer a stick.

What does Windows 8 do better?

For the most part all I need to do is access the software I wan't to run.
It's easier for me to do that from my desktop or task bar.

Why keep switching back and forth?

I've used Rocket Dock and the task bar for years to organize all the software I use day to day.

Anything I need to access when I'm in another programs like, Word, Chrome, Windows Explorer, or my Mail go on the task bar where they stay visible.

Everything else is on Rocket Dock one click away.
It just makes more sense to me.


Joe S

Excellent Member
I prefer stick too my last auto was before I went in the navy in 68. I don't like the metro mess either. I also don't use any fancy cell phones, tablets, etc. I found it quickly turned Metro into a cluttered mess. I installed Media Player Classic and it added 14 items to Metro. In windows 7 and earlier all of those items went in one folder. I also get tired of change for no good reason.
I forgot to ask how's the new PC working out otherwise?

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Hi Joe

The new computer is doing great.

New 27" monitor too, 144hrz refresh rate.
I'm into 3D.

It's very fast, has the latest nVidia 680 video card and i7 3.6Ghx processor, plus 32 Gigs of ram.

I'll be installing stuff for the next few days, and copying the data from the hard drives out of my old computer.

I can't wait to get into some gaming but I will install all the serious stuff first.

I have all my Adobe software installed, now I'm working on other miscellaneous things like lable maker, and things like that.

I still have a lot of stuff to go.



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As both Davehc and myself have mentioned on many occasions, I/we feel like the Metro UI page (when used in a desktop environment) can be viewed as a Start menu but spread across the whole desktop. Using it this way is no different to using the start menu in other windows versions. I mean where's the difference apart from the layout? You click to open the start menu and similarly you click to open the metro screen, still using that bottom left hand corner I note.
You can also use the Task bar or Desktop to pin icons or even use good old rocket dock if one wants to. So it kinda baffles me when people say it's harder to get around in. Why does clicking open the Metro screen differ so much to clicking open the start menu? They are pretty much one and the same thing surely?

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