Windows 7 Damn you, Microsoft

[Azhrei]

Whenever I think about how Microsoft is trying to present networking in Vista and Windows 7, I get so angry I can't even formulate a proper post asking for help. I mean, what with all this crap about homegroups and public/private networking, having several different ways to go about setting folder permissions... whenever I think about it, I see red. It was so easy in XP by comparison. Setup the network wizard, create a name for the network, install the IPX protocol, and boom. Everything works as it should. Want to share a folder? Right-click, click on properties and select "Yes I want to share this folder on my unsecured network as far as you're concerned Microsoft now piss off" (or something to that effect) and it worked.

When it comes to sharing folders in Vista, I have to create a new guest user and make them a co-owner, and still some machines give errors when trying to connect to these folders. By and large, however, it worked. Media sharing was also easy between two Vista machines and Media Centre. Not so with Windows 7. They seem to have added yet more options to the Network & Sharing Centre. I mean, what's a homegroup? How do I get the Vista and XP machines in the apartment to connect to this homegroup? What if I want to create a workgroup with trusty old XP on one machine? How do I tell Vista and 7 that I want to join that workgroup and ignore all their bull****tery about private sharing access? Renaming the network doesn't seem to do it. What's with the network map? Why does one Vista machine show up on it, but the other gives a message about how it can't be explained? And then there's the sharing folders option in 7. To be able to even access, without changing anything, a shared folder, I seem to have to go through several different windows as the os tries to tell me in a condescending manner that anyone who doesn't do things Microsoft's way is a retard.

I right-click on a folder in 7. I select Share, and click apply. My Vista desktop can see it but not access it. I go back into the living room and attempt to set co-owner rights to the folder, except Microsoft have taken that bit out and replaced it with a read/write privilege for everyone. Except the Vista machine still cannot access the folder. Back into the living room again, this time heading for the security option after I right-click. Finally the Vista machine can access the folder, I can copy files into it and everything seems hunky dory. Except when I try to play a video file across the network, nothing happens. Zip. Same thing when I add those shared folders (where every possible option, of which there are several, to make sure that it is shared are selected) in Media Centre - just a black screen. Nothing happens. The red mist descends again. This is all because Microsoft just have to move in what looks like a more modern direction with homegroups and public networking and all that crap, and simply installing the IPX protocol and running a setup wizard just won't cut it these days.

Argh, I've tried to post about my problems with networking in Vista and 7, and again it's turned into a huge rant. Godammit, I hate you, Microsoft! One of the best things about the media pc in the living room was being able to store all of our media on a terabyte hard drive and being able to watch whatever I want in my bedroom, either wirelessly with my laptop or over the wired router on my desktop. Now I can't do this simple task because Microsoft have ****ed up the network options so badly in their attempts to make it "easier" and "clearer to understand even for retard doofuses like yourself, Azhrei. You doofus."

Why do they have to keep moving in a direction that actually makes it harder to network?

 

[iroken22]

Actually Microsoft has made it quite easier to network if you know what your doing. One of the biggest things about folder sharing in XP was the fact that you shared a file and everyone could access it. This was a security vulnerability. In VISTA they fixed that and made it so you can control who sees what. It is not the fact that they are making it harder they are just making it more secure.

 

[Azhrei]

Actually Microsoft has made it quite easier to network if you know what your doing. One of the biggest things about folder sharing in XP was the fact that you shared a file and everyone could access it. This was a security vulnerability. In VISTA they fixed that and made it so you can control who sees what. It is not the fact that they are making it harder they are just making it more secure.

In Vista, sharing folders across a network worked for the most part. The same goes for 7. After swearing blindly at the media pc for several days now, I still can't watch a video across the network, whether over wireless or wired ethernet. How is it easier to network if you have to know what it entails? That's pretty much the opposite of easy, quick access, isn't it? All I want to do is share a folder. I don't want Microsoft to dictate whether the folder or the network is secure or not, I just want to share the damn folder.

But, no. That just won't do, Microsoft appear to say.

 

[Obsidian]

Sharing on XP on my own network? No problem. Takes 5secs, 10 at most.
Sharing on my Vista Laptop on my own network? I gave up 2 months ago, feeling rather stupid and aggrevated. Microsoft may have made it more secure, but for the average home user, it's a tedious and silly setup.
I seem to have got 7 to network a bit, but only when it feels like it. Not when I need it to.

 

[Azhrei]

Ah, another victim. To share a folder in Vista, right-click on it, select properties, then select share, and yes. Then, in the same properties window, you have to edit user permissions. Click on the list and select guest, then click add. Click on the right side of the new guest user, and select co-owner. Bingo, the folder is shared properly now over the 'network. If only it was as easy in Windows 7 >_<

 

[Obsidian]

Ah, thanks. I thought it was the password sharing thingy or w/e. Anyhoo, works properly now.

 

[iroken22]

Microsoft made Windows 7 the way they did to enhance security mainly. You must not realize how big of a security threat on a network a shared folder that everyone can view is. Especially corporate sized networks. This makes it easier for network admins to ensure that the folders on the network are properly secured. I just asked a friend of mine and he concurs with what i am saying. There are aspects of the model Microsoft uses that make complete since to me. then there are other aspects that could use a little improvement.

 

[Obsidian]

Oh, I understand how much of a threat it is on a network on a corporate scale, don't get me wrong. The thing is, I don't want to jumpo through all these rings of fire just to share my stuff with my other stuff. I live by myself in my own appartment on a wired network with no wireless access. I just want to share my stuff with me, and in this case, the way Microsoft took networking from XP to 7 is just stupid. Atleast change the options on the different network levels. Import all the security stuff you like into the work network center, and give us a really basic, trimmed down version of it in the home network center.

I understand all to well what happens within companies when networks are manipulated and I think that for companies, it's getting better and better. For the single home users such as myself? It's getting harder and harder.

 

[Azhrei]

Businesses would surely be using Vista Enterprise, not Vista Home Basic or Premium. I do realise how Microsoft is trying to make Windows as secure as can be, but they are just making it difficult for people who are buying the Home versions. I mean, the very name suggests that that version of the os is not going to be used in many businesses. I appreciate that Microsoft also want to protect user's computers on unsecured networks, say with laptop owners using wi-fi. I do not appreciate Microsoft trying to secure my computers from my own network in my own home.

It's none of their business if the network at my apartment is secured or not, and I wish they'd put an option in there to tell the ultra paranoid Network & Sharing Centre to piss off and leave me alone, and to - gasp! - share whatever folders I want with other computers.

 

[sardog12]

Remember that you are beta testing the Windows 7 ULTIMATE, not the Home Ed. or Basic Ed. I don't know what features that edition will or won't have or if it will have relaxed security or not as Microsoft hasn't announced that, as far as I know. However, it is unreasonable to expect MS to have relaxed security on the Ultimate Ed. If you don't want to work around the features of a Beta OS, I suggest you go back to whatever you were working with before.

 

[Azhrei]

This isn't a question of what copy of Windows we're using, it's the direction Microsoft is heading in.

 

[iroken22]

sardog12 i completely agree with what you are saying. I forgot to mention that. It is not the way that only microsoft is going. Apple and Linux both are going to more secrue ways to share folders on networks. So know this is not a microsoft only thing. I got to see a sneak peek of the new MAC OS coming out and they are implementing newer security measures because in today's society it is ABSOLUTELY NECESSARY. And as sardo12 said this is the Windows 7 ULTIMATE Version not HOME BASIC or HOME PREMIUM. Please let up on the hate a little.

 

[Azhrei]

Ultimate or not, Windows should allow me to share a folder and let it be useable to the fullest extent over a network when I explicitly tell it to. Several times.

 

[iroken22]

Windows does allow this. Use just have to set the access permission to everyone as there is such a user. That is the same as making a folder public in XP. Try it that way you dont have to worry about adding individual users.

 

[Azhrei]

I've done that, and the folders are shared over the network, and I can copy files over to them. What I can't do, however, is play video files like I used to be able to.

 

[Nomad of Norad]

I've done that, and the folders are shared over the network, and I can copy files over to them. What I can't do, however, is play video files like I used to be able to.

What happens when you try to access, via the Win7 machine, a file saved TO that folder? Say, a text-file created on another machine and saved there from that other machine? (I'm assuming this is a share on a machine other than the Win7 machine.)

 

[Azhrei]

What happens when you try to access, via the Win7 machine, a file saved TO that folder? Say, a text-file created on another machine and saved there from that other machine? (I'm assuming this is a share on a machine other than the Win7 machine.)

It has no problems running such files...

 

[iroken22]

I have setup the scenario you have stated that you currently have setup. I have given the permission for everyone to access it. I have no problem playing movies through the network. I dont know exactly what the problem is but somewhere you dont have a setting set right.

 

[Mike]

I can tell you that setting up network devices for Linux all day is not fun, a problem that arises from not having an integrated Windows network. I would consider the Homegroup function similar to that of a workgroup, but with the added security of having a password. The best medicine for the problem you are experiencing with insufficient access to getting to your stuff is Windows Server. It goes without saying that with server you can use group policies and Active Directory to create the type of sharing you are looking for. I would say that for most home users this is not a practical solution and I’m still not sold on Windows Home Server, even while I can see its benefits for multimedia storage. It is extraordinarily important to have a Windows network set up and running properly on a business network if the employee’s platform is primarily Windows based and they need to share files. There is just not enough flexibility with a workgroup and you run the risk of losing files. There is way more overhead.

Your situation sounds like you just need to log in as Administrator under Vista, disable Sharing Wizard in Explorer -> Alt Key -> Tools -> Folder Options and make sure the read/write permissions are set to “Everyoneâ€Â￾. Problem solved at that point, or would I be missing something?

 

[stuigi]

According to Microsoft a homegroup can only be shared between win 7 machines