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seekermeister · Oct 17, 2013

What is the purpose of your expressions of thought...to convince me or yourself? If me, then you are fighting a losing battle, if yourself then it would seem that you believe that you already know the truth, yet you say that don't, and that it doesn't exist. That's not particularly logical. If it isn't already obvious, I do have my own beliefs, but they do not conform to any organized religion. If we agree on one thing, it's that organized religion is not what it should be, nor what it claims to be. I do not classify my beliefs as a religion, only a faith.

Your last post sounds more like a rant than anything else. If the religions behaved in a fashion that you would deem fit, would it really make any difference, or is that simply an excuse to justify to yourself what you do believe or disbelieve? As I said previously, it doesn't matter how other people exercise their beliefs, only how you do. Again, if you are satisfied with what you think or believe, then so be it. Who am I to attempt to change you...no one. However, I will point out one thing, it is you that has detoured off into religion, not me. I have been attempting to only get across one thing...a concept of truth. If you don't accept it, that's okay, but I won't continue wasting your time or mine in a battle of futility.

Pauli · Oct 17, 2013

I believe in and trust an Absolute Truth. I've repeatedly stated that Truth cannot contradict itself. The problem with men is, they contradict - on the surface proclaiming the same, even same God, they still pick up axes and guns and hunt each other. And who will ever win? The widows or the orphans?

In my opinion, the main truth for each person to understand would probably be, The one you see in the mirror is you - and that one is fallible. Like John F. Kennedy said, We are all mortal.

whoosh · Oct 17, 2013

Pauli said:
I believe in and trust an Absolute Truth. I've repeatedly stated that Truth cannot contradict itself. The problem with men is, they contradict - on the surface proclaiming the same, even same God, they still pick up axes and guns and hunt each other. And who will ever win? The widows or the orphans?

In my opinion, the main truth for each person to understand would probably be, The one you see in the mirror is you - and that one is fallible. Like John F. Kennedy said, We are all mortal.

Yes fallibility is the problem. Everything we think we can hold true is only a veneer. Even the world we see and universe is so. The physical world is never truly seen.Getting down to the atomic structure.
We cannot even see the truth.
Seeker said .... What is the purpose of your expressions of thought...to convince me or yourself? If me, then you are fighting a losing battle, if yourself then it would seem that you believe that you already know the truth, yet you say that don't, and that it doesn't exist. That's not particularly logical. If it isn't already obvious, I do have my own beliefs, but they do not conform to any organized religion. If we agree on one thing, it's that organized religion is not what it should be, nor what it claims to be. I do not classify my beliefs as a religion, only a faith..........
I say I do not know the truth as there seems no fixed point from which to find it. Nothing we see is true. That being so and since we have to rely on a faulty view of the world how can I trust that anything else is true ?
That which is true should be ... blindingly obvious
The whole universe is one of smoke and mirrors and why is this so ?
Seeker said.............Your last post sounds more like a rant than anything else. If the religions behaved in a fashion that you would deem fit, would it really make any difference, or is that simply an excuse to justify to yourself what you do believe or disbelieve? As I said previously, it doesn't matter how other people exercise their beliefs, only how you do. Again, if you are satisfied with what you think or believe, then so be it. Who am I to attempt to change you...no one. However, I will point out one thing, it is you that has detoured off into religion, not me. I have been attempting to only get across one thing...a concept of truth. If you don't accept it, that's okay, but I won't continue wasting your time or mine in a battle of futility.............
I was trying to point out the view of what purports to be truth. We cannot help but be influenced by others thoughts and beliefs, true or not true.
Religion is held to be ultimate truth along with science.
I think in the end I give up as it is a fruitless quest. We all have a final outcome and maybe then at the moment of death we will find out.
I cannot rely on my senses for truth. I cannot rely on others . Ultimate truth is a fine concept and may be true.
Ultimate truth should not need to hide and play fast and lose.
Will the real Ultimate Truth please stand up and declare yourself ?
P.S Life is a mystery now ain't that the truth !

seekermeister · Oct 17, 2013

Will the real Ultimate Truth please stand up and declare yourself ?

In your mind, you already have. You are so blinded by the aura of your own perceived brilliance, that you close your eyes lest anything should outshine it. The only reason that you started this exchange is solely for your own amusement, and I for one am not interested in playing the role of your court jester. Therefore, I shall exit stage right, and leave you to take your final bows, while the clamor of applause, that only you can hear, drowns out any possible cues that might change your performance...which is akin to what is portrayed in some of your videos. At first, I wasn't sure if you were playing the role of Mizaru, Kikazaru or Iwazaru, but it is now clear that you are playing all three, but in a reversal of their normally perceived behavior.

whoosh · Oct 17, 2013

seekermeister said:
In your mind, you already have. You are so blinded by the aura of your own perceived brilliance, that you close your eyes lest anything should outshine it. The only reason that you started this exchange is solely for your own amusement, and I for one am not interested in playing the role of your court jester. Therefore, I shall exit stage right, and leave you to take your final bows, while the clamor of applause, that only you can hear, drowns out any possible cues that might change your performance...which is akin to what is portrayed in some of your videos. At first, I wasn't sure if you were playing the role of Mizaru, Kikazaru or Iwazaru, but it is now clear that you are playing all three, but in a reversal of their normally perceived behavior.

Lol. I never fail to be astounded at the depth of your perception.
Due to my lack of knowledge most went straight over my head.
One truth is obvious my lack of knowing.
I actualy see you more as a straight man.
I see very little of a comedic strain in your statements.
Each to their own.

whoosh · Oct 17, 2013

It

whoosh said:
Lol. I never fail to be astounded at the depth of your perception.
Due to my lack of knowledge most went straight over my head.
One truth is obvious my lack of knowing.
I actualy see you more as a straight man.
I see very little of a comedic strain in your statements.
Each to their own.

is true I started the exchange for amusement.
I can really on you for acerbic comments. I go out of my way to be non confrontational.
Those that find a need to be blunt and in your face amuse. me.

seekermeister · Oct 17, 2013

If by blunt, you mean that I say what I mean...that is true, but it has never been my intention to be in your or anyone else's face. I do understand why you might see it that way, and that may be part of the reason that you resisted what I said. For that I apologize, but not for what I said.

whoosh · Oct 17, 2013

seekermeister said:
If by blunt, you mean that I say what I mean...that is true, but it has never been my intention to be in your or anyone else's face. I do understand why you might see it that way, and that may be part of the reason that you resisted what I said. For that I apologize, but not for what I said.

Perception is all we have. We come into the world with nothing and leave the same.
I expect nothing and thus far have reached my expectation.
Nothing makes any sense. No need to apologise but thanks.
Maybe truth is a very mundane thing in another place.
Here truth shifts like the sand.
Einstein,s theory of relativity cannot hold true in all cases. Once it was thought to be a flawless theory.
Perception is all we have.
Through a glass we see but a dim and erroneous glimpse of what may be or is.

seekermeister · Oct 17, 2013

Tell me just one thing...why do you insist on basing your perception of truth upon the limited understanding of man? If man didn't exist at all, truth would still remain.

whoosh · Oct 17, 2013

seekermeister said:
Tell me just one thing...why do you insist on basing your perception of truth upon the limited understanding of man? If man didn't exist at all, truth would still remain.

One reason maybe that I am a man.
This truth that would remain minus the intervention of man is beyond my knowledge.
I am in the body and possessing the brain and functions of a man. I can only only interpret the universe using such limited equipment.
I can be told truth lies above my limited perception.
I will still be none the wiser.

seekermeister · Oct 17, 2013

The concept is not something that requires that you must be taught, nor do you have to fully understand it. If nothing else, it is an abstract concept that is not beyond your understanding. Being a man is no excuse, because you have already demonstrated that you are not as limited as you make yourself out to be. I think that in reality, you are referring to mankind in general, rather than singling yourself out. Do you really have such a low opinion of mankind?

whoosh · Oct 17, 2013

seekermeister said:
The concept is not something that requires that you must be taught, nor do you have to fully understand it. If nothing else, it is an abstract concept that is not beyond your understanding. Being a man is no excuse, because you have already demonstrated that you are not as limited as you make yourself out to be. I think that in reality, you are referring to mankind in general, rather than singling yourself out. Do you really have such a low opinion of mankind?

No not a low opinion but I often think we are misguided. I do understand that and yet I can not longer entertain that construct.
I am tired of half truths and struggling to fit the pieces together. I want a truth that is self evident.
I await the final day when I can but hope some further illumination will be revealed.
One thing is certain nothing remains the same in the physical world.
Slowly we see the Universe changing.
Mans nature never does. We are born with the same traits from one generation to the next.
Truth should not need to hide. It may be a clever camouflage. The truth was there all the time we just could not perceive it .
Some questions are to big for study. Minds far brighter then mine have sought out the truth.
I tend to avoid it now due to the intense amount of effort involved.
I am happy to just be for now.

seekermeister · Oct 17, 2013

Of course we are, but some more than others. We are not misguided in ALL things, and even those in the latter group get some things right. It seems that your view is that because there are some bad apples in the barrel, that you throw out the entire barrel, instead of just those bad apples. With that method you would never be able to bake an apple pie or even gnaw on a fresh apple.

seekermeister · Oct 17, 2013

I am tired of half truths and struggling to fit the pieces together. I want a truth that is self evident.
I await the final day when I can but hope some further illumination will be revealed.
One thing is certain nothing remains the same in the physical world.
Slowly we see the Universe changing.
Mans nature never does. We are born with the same traits from one generation to the next.
Truth should not need to hide. It may be a clever camouflage. The truth was there all the time we just could not perceive it .
Some questions are to big for study. Minds far brighter then mine have sought out the truth.
I tend to avoid it now due to the intense amount of effort involved.
I am happy to just be for now.

You added this portion after I responded to the post it is contained in, but I guess it doesn't really matter, because there is nothing that I could have said that would have had any real impact. Still, I must say that by choosing not to put any effort into this now, it may mean that you may not have the opportunity to do so later. It also means that it is very likely that when what appears to you to be the "truth" does become evident, you will grab onto it, and by doing so, you may be grabbing a tiger by the tail.

We are definitely nearing a time when a great deal of change will occur, but before it gets better, it will get far, far worse...especially for anyone that is not prepared beforehand. So enjoy yourself as long as it is possible to do so.

Pauli · Oct 18, 2013

Yes...

And as he [Saul] journeyed, he came near Damascus: and suddenly there shined round about him a light from heaven: And he fell to the earth, and heard a voice saying unto him, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me? And he said, Who art thou, Lord? And the Lord said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest: it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks. - The Acts, 9:3-5, KJV, words of Christ in red.

Gosh. War of minds? One man, against one God? Flesh against supernatural? I know for sure that, even if I'm dead and gone as I will be, most probably Universe will exist. It will not die with me. To have as limited a God would be... ridiculous. I do believe the Bible, but I do believe Truth is, most probably, even more and greater.

I did have the somewhat blasphemous idea of adding to the Book, And God created men, He gave them brains, but He left the use of brains for them to find out about.

whoosh · Oct 19, 2013

Pauli said:
Yes...

And as he [Saul] journeyed, he came near Damascus: and suddenly there shined round about him a light from heaven: And he fell to the earth, and heard a voice saying unto him, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me? And he said, Who art thou, Lord? And the Lord said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest: it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks. - The Acts, 9:3-5, KJV, words of Christ in red.

Gosh. War of minds? One man, against one God? Flesh against supernatural? I know for sure that, even if I'm dead and gone as I will be, most probably Universe will exist. It will not die with me. To have as limited a God would be... ridiculous. I do believe the Bible, but I do believe Truth is, most probably, even more and greater.

I did have the somewhat blasphemous idea of adding to the Book, And God created men, He gave them brains, but He left the use of brains for them to find out about.

Early views on the function of the brain regarded it to be a form of "cranial stuffing" of sorts. In ancient Egypt, from the late Middle Kingdom onwards, in preparation for mummification, the brain was regularly removed, for it was the heart that was assumed to be the seat of intelligence. According to Herodotus, during the first step of mummification: "The most perfect practice is to extract as much of the brain as possible with an iron hook, and what the hook cannot reach is mixed with drugs." Over the next five thousand years, this view came to be reversed; the brain is now known to be the seat of intelligence, although colloquial variations of the former remain as in "memorizing something by heart".
So right

Pauli · Oct 21, 2013

I guess we're getting out off topic, more and more, but there is the concept of what man is? "And I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ", I Thessalonians 5:23.

We are trinities, I trust. But are we the ones to be solely deserved and saved, by teachings of Pope, or Luther = Finland, or Pastor here or there, or... whoever. THAT I doubt. I don't trust people. I even trust whoosh more... and that was a bad comment.

whoosh · Oct 23, 2013

Pauli said:
I guess we're getting out off topic, more and more, but there is the concept of what man is? "And I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ", I Thessalonians 5:23.

We are trinities, I trust. But are we the ones to be solely deserved and saved, by teachings of Pope, or Luther = Finland, or Pastor here or there, or... whoever. THAT I doubt. I don't trust people. I even trust whoosh more... and that was a bad comment.

Complexity and confusion and paths in all directions. Now what did they say about all paths ?

Pauli · Oct 23, 2013

I guess the ones to be truly honored said, The path is narrow, and the Truth is nay easy to find. The basic problem is, in my opinion, we have the perception "we know". Regardless of conception of reality, be it political or religious or anything... "we know". Ask a bear, and he knows. Certainty may be the most cruel aspect of reality, as it denies the relativity of existence, and who of us would be the one to say "This is it. I know it!" Except perhaps Adolf Hitler and his kindred? And certainty gives the right for arms and persecution, like the Inquisition had - they had no doubt.

X Files had the statement, The Truth is out there, and I would sign that. To repeat myself, I do believe the Bible, but then... that Truth is also, actually, out there. It's not here, is it? It's in the spiritual realm, in eternal realm, and I wouldn't make the claim "I know it".

Some topic you created, m8!

whoosh · Oct 25, 2013

Pauli said:
I guess the ones to be truly honored said, The path is narrow, and the Truth is nay easy to find. The basic problem is, in my opinion, we have the perception "we know". Regardless of conception of reality, be it political or religious or anything... "we know". Ask a bear, and he knows. Certainty may be the most cruel aspect of reality, as it denies the relativity of existence, and who of us would be the one to say "This is it. I know it!" Except perhaps Adolf Hitler and his kindred? And certainty gives the right for arms and persecution, like the Inquisition had - they had no doubt.

X Files had the statement, The Truth is out there, and I would sign that. To repeat myself, I do believe the Bible, but then... that Truth is also, actually, out there. It's not here, is it? It's in the spiritual realm, in eternal realm, and I wouldn't make the claim "I know it".

Some topic you created, m8!

Yes the truth does seem to have a life of it's own

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