Windows 7 Clean install Or Upgrade only

Emil

New Member
#41
As promised here is the answer. This is straight from my friend & collague who is Chief Security Advisor w/ Microsoft Canada...


The short answer is that an upgrade package generally needs to install on top of the existing OS.

There is an exception to this. Many of the upgrades will install on a clean hard drive IF you can provide the original media for a qualifying upgrade product.

I.e. the Windows XP or Windows Vista installation on a clean hard drive will prompt you for a disk from a earlier operating system during the setup phase. This is designed for people who have upgraded their version of Windows and need to re-install after a hard drive upgrade etc, without installing the old OS as well.


Cheers,
Drew
This is an e-mail I just sent to "Dean" at Microsoft:

Dean,

OK. Great. Now we're getting somewhere. But this does not fully answer my (our) questions. You state: "then you would need an existing operating system on your machine." What does THIS mean? Does this mean that we cannot boot to a Windows 7 UPGRADE disc on a formatted hard drive (with no operating system of any kind installed)? If so, during the install process, will the software want proof of a previous OS by asking for insertion of a licensed XP disc?
Do you have any idea of how angry real and potential purchasers of Windows 7 are about Microsoft's reluctance to fully explain this procedure? Just go to windows7forums.com and get a taste of what's going on out there! Does Microsoft care that they are making even more people angry than already exist?
Dean, I'll make this real simple. This is what I want you to ask an expert at Presales and Licensing Department (and please tell them I don't want the simple answer they originally gave):

IS IT POSSIBLE TO BOOT DIRECTLY TO A WINDOWS 7 UPGRADE DISC ON A FORMATTED HARD DRIVE WITHOUT A PREVIOUS OS INSTALLED? IF SO, DURING THE COURSE OF THE INSTALLATION, WILL THE OPERATOR BE ASKED TO SHOW PROOF OF HAVING A LINCENSED COPY OF XP? IF SO, HOW IS THIS ACCOMPLISHED? WILL THE OPERATOR BE ASKED TO INSERT THIS XP DISK TO COMPLETE THE INSTALLATION?

That's it Dean. By answering these simple questions without hemming or hawing Microsoft will satisfy the curiosity of computer geeks everywhere. All we want is a definitive answer. Is that too much to ask of Microsoft? Whatever answer you give me will be immediately transferred (with quotes) to several web sites dealing with this issue. Inform your friends at the Presales and Licensing Department that they will anger several thousand computer users of Microsoft operating systems if they continue to be secretive about this installation process.

Stay tuned for Dean's answer which I will immediately post!
 


SIW2

New Member
#42
I don't understand what you mean. Normally with an XP upgrade disk I could clean install XP as long as I had evidence that I had a previous version disk like Windows 98. Then I can install XP even over a totally formated disk.

So what is with the Wind 7 preorder disk? Do I have to actually have XP or Vista installed on the disk first? That means I will have to format my disk, then install either XP or Vista and install Windows 7. Takes a lot of time.

Please answer!
Jim
We don't know for sure yet, but it would be surprising if there wasn't a way to install to a blank HD using the upgrade key.

IS IT POSSIBLE TO BOOT DIRECTLY TO A WINDOWS 7 UPGRADE DISC ON A FORMATTED HARD DRIVE WITHOUT A PREVIOUS OS INSTALLED? IF SO, DURING THE COURSE OF THE INSTALLATION, WILL THE OPERATOR BE ASKED TO SHOW PROOF OF HAVING A LINCENSED COPY OF XP? IF SO, HOW IS THIS ACCOMPLISHED? WILL THE OPERATOR BE ASKED TO INSERT THIS XP DISK TO COMPLETE THE INSTALLATION?
How do you prove it is a "Licensed " copy. Vista dvd's do not include the product key .
 


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#43
Most systems come with OEM version of Vista/xp and NO install disk... (not even a restore disk anymore )

These systems (probably over half of the pc's running today) will have crashes hardware failures and the os will have to be reinstalled.

How much headache (bad press) and tech support will Microsoft have to deal with if there is no way to fix your broken pc with your upgrade disk? Most people don't look for ways to defeate the registration process... HOWEVER if you are an average user and you PAID for XP, then PAID for Vista, then PAID for 7 upgrade and your hard drive dies (and ALL hard drives eventually fail) When you call Microsoft and ask how to reinstall Windows.... and they say "pay us $200 and we'll send you the full install disk." You will say "screw that ... there must be a better solution."
 


SIW2

New Member
#44
Exactly - I repeat , it is likely there IS away to install to a fresh HD.

It might be to do the double install dance - as with Vista, it might be to show the installer a qualifying version dvd - or something else entirely.

Otherwise - there will be a lot who started with oem preinstalls , then used the Upgrade to 7 license - then are very unhappy when their HD dies.
 


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#45
This just keeps going in circles..... because no one knows exactly what "conditions" it will install on a blank HDD.

We have ALWAYS known it would intall on a blank hdd *IF* you could get to the "Custom" install menu.

Some say you have to stop and put in a XP/VISTA install disk... (for 7 to make some kind of verification check) but even if that was required, there is NO way for the 7 upgrade to KNOW if the old install was ever paid for and activated.

ASK the expert HOW do you get to the "Custom" install menu on a Win 7 upgrade disk.
 


Emil

New Member
#46
We don't know for sure yet, but it would be surprising if there wasn't a way to install to a blank HD using the upgrade key.



How do you prove it is a "Licensed " copy. Vista dvd's do not include the product key .
Notice I used the term XP, not Vista. Personally, I don't care about a Vista install disc because the computer I am currently using is a Gateway with OEM Vista installed. I have a factory-supplied Recoveyr Disc that won't be appropriate after I gut this Gateway turkey and install components more to my liking.
Therefore, I was referring to an XP install disc that has a product key. And in order to install an XP upgrade disc, you have to present an earlier OS during installation.
Get it?
 


Emil

New Member
#47
This is from my friend & colleague @ MS. Believe me, HE knows, definatively. He's now Chief Security Advisor, MS Canda. Read it again...

The prior OS does not need to be installed... if you are going on a blank HDD it's ok, w/ Upgrade media

Regards,
Drew

I.e. the Windows XP or Windows Vista installation on a clean hard drive will prompt you for a disk from a earlier operating system during the setup phase. This is designed for people who have upgraded their version of Windows and need to re-install after a hard drive upgrade etc, without installing the old OS as well.
Drew,
I hope this is true. You might want to ask your expert friend why MS Tech support and the Presales and Licensing Department are so coy about this issue. At this point in time, I have not gotten a straight answer from any of these departments. Is this a case of keeping necessary information under raps until October 23 so that a confused buyer will just throw up his hands and say, "What the hell! I'll just pay two hundred bucks and not worry about it."?
 


#48
Drew,
At this point in time, I have not gotten a straight answer from any of these departments. Is this a case of keeping necessary information under raps until October 23 so that a confused buyer will just throw up his hands and say, "What the hell! I'll just pay two hundred bucks and not worry about it."?
By golly I think you have cracked the Microsoft marketing code.
 


SIW2

New Member
#49
The short answer is that an upgrade package generally needs to install on top of the existing OS.

There is an exception to this. Many of the upgrades will install on a clean hard drive IF you can provide the original media for a qualifying upgrade product.

I.e. the Windows XP or Windows Vista installation on a clean hard drive will prompt you for a disk from a earlier operating system during the setup phase. This is designed for people who have upgraded their version of Windows and need to re-install after a hard drive upgrade etc, without installing the old OS as well.
Drew,

Your friend is saying "generally" and what you do with XP and Vista installs.

He does not specifically say what you do to install 7 to a blank HD.

It might be that you just need to show it a qualifying version on cd/dvd - but no one has categorically said so.

MS employee Harold Wong stated on his blog some months ago that a qualifying version on cd/dvd would do - then he withdrew the statement.

It is sensible for MS not to broadcast how to do it - they want people to buy the Full version.
 


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#51
Man did this thread ever get confusing.. I can see why some are still confused.. ;) I suggest anyone wondering how this "trick" works should read the following: http://www.winsupersite.com/showcase/winvista_upgrade_clean.asp

Paul does a very job of explaining how it works and why it works.. ;) I know the guide is for Vista but it will answer the questions you may have none the less.. :)
 


SIW2

New Member
#52
Why do you think that will still work for 7?
 


#53
I know it will still work for Win 7 because I have done it.. ;) So unless Microsoft releases a patch between now and Oct 22nd it indeed will work.. :)
 


SIW2

New Member
#54
You have an upgrade product key already? How did you manage to get hold of that.
 


#55
You have an upgrade product key already? How did you manage to get hold of that.
Connections my friend.. it's all about the connections.. ;) Anyway, the point is it does work.. Like I said, Microsoft may release a patch on Oct 22 or in a future Service Pack that will prevent it from working.. But we'll just have to wait and see.. :)
 


SIW2

New Member
#56
I doubt it. If they left the double install dance routine in the RTM you are now using - it will almost certainly remain.

Great News. Thanks.
 


#57
I'm still trying to figure out how to handle the migration strategy and justification in convincing clients (98% of which are XP Pro) to move/upgrade to W7 if they have to spend the $ on the OS and then the labor 4-5 hours it will take Backing Up, re-installing OS, Restoring, re-installing all Applications, etc... No Upgrade from XP seems significantly short-sided. Yes, as a consultant it's a home run but from the customers standpoint upgrading to 7 is going to cost them significantly more than a new PC (which in this economy isn't going fly either) Does anyone have a realistic approach (or justification) to making this transition less costly to the end-user? Windows XP is now the old-school/old reliable product in most people's opinion (users). Let's face it - people don't like change for change sake and justifying this will take more than "It's the greatest thing since sliced bread" I'm all for a better OS and it's definitely moving in the right direction but it's a tough sell. Any thoughts or resources that anyone might be aware of (that don't necessarily come from MS)

I'm still trying to figure out how to handle the migration strategy and justification in convincing clients (98% of which are XP Pro) to move/upgrade to W7 if they have to spend the $ on the OS and then the labor 4-5 hours it will take Backing Up, re-installing OS, Restoring, re-installing all Applications, etc... No Upgrade from XP seems significantly short-sided. Yes, as a consultant it's a home run but from the customers standpoint upgrading to 7 is going to cost them significantly more than a new PC (which in this economy isn't going fly either) Does anyone have a realistic approach (or justification) to making this transition less costly to the end-user? Windows XP is now the old-school/old reliable product in most people's opinion (users). Let's face it - people don't like change for change sake and justifying this will take more than "It's the greatest thing since sliced bread" I'm all for a better OS and it's definitely moving in the right direction but it's a tough sell. Any thoughts or resources that anyone might be aware of (that don't necessarily come from MS)


I've put both of your posts together.Please do not double post.
Thankyou
 


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#58
Sorry about that - not a big Forum user or blogger but I thought this woul dbe a good place to start......
 


kemical

Windows Forum Admin
Staff member
Premium Supporter
Microsoft MVP
#59
No worries GTNES...:D

Welcome to the forum.
I hope you have a long and happy stay with us here..:) It's a nice warm, friendly place with tips about computers toboot..
 


#60
Thanks - I hope to get some input....
 


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