Food for Thought... IRONY

Medico

Senior Member
#21
I do not consider myself Old, just More Experienced!

I am still working although temporarily out on worker's compensation from an injury. It does not at times seem like I have enough time on my hands, LOL!

I also apologize for the divergence from the topic.
 


MikeHawthorne

Essential Member
Microsoft Community Contributor
#22
Hi Dave.

Wow, I'm really relieved that I'm not the oldest person here at 74. LOL
Makes me feel like a spring chicken!!!

I've been retired for a long time, but I still never seem to have enough time to get every thing done.

One of the things I've done since I retired that I'm proud of, is learn to type.

When I was still working I always had someone to do that for me.

When I started using computers to do my graphic design work, I had a hard time and had to ask clients to give me all their copy as Word files so I didn't have to do any typing.

I may not be super fast but I can actually type using all my fingers and talk to someone else at the same time.

Now I get together with other old guys and we brag about how fast we can type, I never thought it would come to that. LOL

Mike
 


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whs

Extraordinary Member
#23
Wow, I'm really relieved that I'm not the oldest person here at 74. LOL
Makes me feel like a spring chicken!!!
74 is my age too and I do not feel old when it comes to computers - the bones is another matter though. Since 1961 I had to adopt to at least 30 different operating systems - that was my job.

Windows 8 is special. It is a confused Windows 7. It makes my operation unnecessarily difficult without adding any advantage. So where is the beef.
 


MikeHawthorne

Essential Member
Microsoft Community Contributor
#24
Hi Whs

I started another thread asking "What can you do in Windows 8 that you couldn't in Windows 7?"

I thought I would get a list of things I'd missed.
I didn't get many responses, and none really pointed out new features.


I was happy with Windows XP, and I skipped Vista, but I found Windows 7 to be a real improvement.
I love the snap feature, I use it constantly.

But in Windows 8 while I find it to have improved performance on my computer and to be very stable, doesn't have anything new as far as real features, other then the Metro UI, (which I don't really use).

Maybe if I get a Windows pad I'll like it more, but from what I have read they are going to lock down the Window's pad the same way that Apple has done with my iPad and not let you run software that you don't buy through there app store.

If they do that, and I can't run my Windows Applications I'll just stick with my iPad.

Anyway back to the point, I agree with you, I like the improved performance, I'll spring for the $39 just for that, but "Where's the beef?"

I'd like to have seen some features that really make things easier to do.

Mike
 


Medico

Senior Member
#25
I use the Charms Bar to go to User options - Settings, Change PC Settings. I also find it easier and quicker to use the Power Users Menu, Win + X.

These are just 2 things of many that I have found beneficial in addition to the better performance.
 


#26
Superior navigating & access, graphics, overall performance, speed, CPU & RAM needs & handling, Terrific Task Manager, lack of need to add many things (such as Flash & Reader), lack of need to install hardware (peripheral devices, w/out CDs), vast compatibility list, embedded security and, and, and...

Cheers,
Drew
 


whs

Extraordinary Member
#27
Mike, I guess $39 is OK for tinkering around with Win8. Drew thinks that you get a lot of beef, but for me that is mostely unimportant smoke. Especially the performance argument does not really apply when you operate from a SSD - there is quasi no difference to Win7.

Yes, the task manager is nice. But all they did is carry the functions from the Resource Monitor.

I have to say though that I had a lot of fun playing with Win8. I even made a few simple tutorials. But for the daily chores I rather stay with Win7.
 


MikeHawthorne

Essential Member
Microsoft Community Contributor
#28
Mike, I guess $39 is OK for tinkering around with Win8. Drew thinks that you get a lot of beef, but for me that is mostely unimportant smoke. Especially the performance argument does not really apply when you operate from a SSD - there is quasi no difference to Win7.

Yes, the task manager is nice. But all they did is carry the functions from the Resource Monitor.

I have to say though that I had a lot of fun playing with Win8. I even made a few simple tutorials. But for the daily chores I rather stay with Win7.
I agree for the most part, except that I do see a noticeable improvement in performance on my computer (no SSDs).

And as far as usability, I actually have it set up using Classic Shell, Rocket Dock and some tweaks that make it look pretty much the same as my Windows 7 set up any way.

If I din't see the improvement in performance I wouldn't bother to upgrade.
The interface it'self isn't an enticement for me.

I wish I could design my own interface, most of my job as a graphic designer was making things look attractive and be easy to understand.

I think I could do better, but I guess everyone thinks that! LOL

Mike
 


davehc

Essential Member
Premium Supporter
#29
The new boot up system is mainly responsible for the apparent improved performance of Windows 8. It has almost half of the normal Windows 7 processes/services running, this naturally gives the computer more memory with which to work. I felt, at the time of the first look at 8, that the same consideration could have been given to Windows 7. Later thoughts made me realise that this would have meant a major rewrite, and not just an SP. - so we get Windows 8!
Windows 8 performance is, without doubt, improved. I do find it faster in terms of general use, such as navigating the OS, installing apps, load times, and other routine operations.
But, realistically, reports of the big improvements in performance are, IMHO, a little imaginative. Among the numerous available figures, benchmarks show an improved performance. Currently, with so many different bench measures of Windows 8, it seems that the overall (Guess that for yourselves!) performance is about 8% improved. This may go either way when Microsoft loads up a few extras for the RTM in a couple of weeks or so. But, if you consider that there has been a three year pause since Windows 7 was released, I don't find this mind blowing.
But, having said that, for multi graphic users such as Mike, I can certainly see the overall response must be gratifying. Possibly difficult to accomplish using the Metro applications, should there be any useful ones in the graphics field, but it does seem that we will be able to streamline/customise the Metro in the final release.
 


#30
"I felt, at the time of the first look at 8, that the same consideration could have been given to Windows 7. Later thoughts made me realise that this would have meant a major rewrite, and not just an SP. - so we get Windows 8!"

As a bit of an 'aside', what you said ^ causes me to (re)mention something. I say (re) cuase I think I due an article about this in the forum, already. Anyway, it's just that Windows8 & going forward is based on WinRT Platform technology. Prior to Windows8 was WinNT. It just jibes w/ what you said or had deduced.

(Don't confuse WinRT w/ Windows8 RT; the latter being Windows8 for ARM based devices.)

Cheers,
Drew
 


davehc

Essential Member
Premium Supporter
#31
IF I understood you,. Thank you for your observation. I don't think I "jibed" with anything. I do not see in my post, any mention of "technology". In fact, the difference will not be discernible by most users, as it will still have WinNT support into the foreseeable future, so that those users can continue to use Win32 applications. I understand from the press coverage, that it is Microsoft's hope that, by the next Windows generation, they will be able to totally eliminate this need.
 


#32
Yes, 32 bit soon will be passé. We'll see only 64 & 128 is not all that for off in the future. Certainly WinNT support will be around for a long while but, the platform, now & henceforth is WinRT. Your mention of the task to make major changes to 7 brought to mind that, yes, that gets interesting, as opposed to, as you say, may as well just go new & different; 8 & future Windows are just that, new & gone from WinNT to WinRT.

Cheers,
Drew
 


#33
I very much love Windows 7 and truely find 8 to be the miserable one. I did not see enough of a performance increase to offset the cumbersome interface. I can't even imagine what it would be like getting the two in the household who just get by on Windows as it is now, on to Window 8. Telling them, you hunt for the magic corners that give you no idea that you would click there, and hope you get the one you want to do what you need to do. Isn't that just fun!!! Oh I'm sorry that big nasty start screen of big blocks covers your whole screen and cool wall paper. Isn't that fun too! I'd spend weeks running back and forth and getting calls. How do I do this? I can't find out to do that. When I tried the Consumer preview I thought it was a pain. I knew that the others would find it difficult and confusing. I did have to stop and think about it when I heard the deal they were offering for the first few months. I just not sure even that much of a discount is worth the irritation, hassle and poorly thought out UI for the desktop/laptop. To cover that, they would have to throw in the DVD in the buy it off line price and have it hand delivered by Ballmer himself. I went from years ago rushing out to buy the newest version of MS Dos, same with Windows, now that excitement is utterly gone, replaced by dread.

Some of the criticism thats been made about Windows 7 I feel is not true, I see no reason Win7 should be clunky or chunky (whatever chunky means, it dosent feel fat and bloated like vista was). But in fact for me it feels very fast still. I use Ultimate so I can only speak for that version though.
Everyone remembers how slow vista tended to be, people complained, and MS did alot of great performance fixes resulting in Win7. What I'm getting at is Windows 7 is still a rock solid OS. Even though win 8 probably can run on computers that Win7 struggles with. I think if you have a good system and maintain the OS then you should be okay and get great performance. On my laptop I tried win8 but sadly could not stay because Intel has not released a win8 graphics driver yet so I had issues. I thought both win7 and win8 ran at the same speed.
I could not tell any difference in speed. I have nothing bad to say about Win7 or Win8. I think they are both great improvements MS had made since XP and Vista. I would like to hear more good things about Win7, maybe we could be talking about the many failures of XP or Vista, and the time we all had to spend in hell using them for 5-10 years. Poor driver support and hunting done the right drivers usually spent a whole day to get everything working. Those tasks where tiring and annoying. I glad I'm out of that mess for good. Win7 deserves more credit and less bashing.
 


Medico

Senior Member
#34
This thread gives a very good starting point when first starting Win 8. These customizations (Navigation Tips) will make Win 8 feel more comfortable right out of the box.
 


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#35
Windows 7 was usable with no customizatons out of the box. Install your programs, double click and do your thing. No wondering which corner does what. Who's going to tell everyone that you can just start typing on the start menu and it will give you a list of all your programs. And to be honest I'm not even sure you could do that when I messed with the Preview. I was so shocked and dismayed by the lack of common sense to the UI for non touch screen systems, all I can remember was the intense desire to get rid of it. Knowing the other two's Windows skill and knowledge levels, best to stay on a UI that makes sense than to throw them onto something which little is intuitive.

This thread gives a very good starting point when first starting Win 8. These customizations will make Win 8 feel more comfortable right out of the box.
 


#36
Windows 7 was usable with no customizatons out of the box. Install your programs, double click and do your thing. No wondering which corner does what. Who's going to tell everyone that you can just start typing on the start menu and it will give you a list of all your programs. And to be honest I'm not even sure you could do that when I messed with the Preview. I was so shocked and dismayed by the lack of common sense to the UI for non touch screen systems, all I can remember was the intense desire to get rid of it. Knowing the other two's Windows skill and knowledge levels, best to stay on a UI that makes sense than to throw them onto something which little is intuitive.

I recently have gotten a Lenovo Ideapad z565 with Ati Radeon HD 4200 graphics, and my wife got an Acer Android Tablet. She loves it, the look is somewhat of windows 8 with some live tiles. But the background is not a dull stationary wallpaper but a live moving animation of 3d clouds. You can change it, and customize it every bit as much as Windows. It works well and alot of Windows software has been ported to Android which is a big plus. She rented an Ipad once but things that are free now with Android are not free on the Ipad which is very stupid on Apples part. It turned out to be a very good buy.
As far as my laptops go, The Thinkpad R61 has good graphics and can run most pc games, but it fails on some 3d intensive ones. Thats where my other one comes in, it can run Modern games pretty good. Both have Win7 and both run flawlessly. Windows 8 may appeal to alot of people, but to me I like 7 and love using it. I have the best performance I could ask for and need. So theres no reason for me to get Windows 8 or my wife. She has her laptop but also didnt like win8 so I reinstalled 7. She said it had problems which is true since its still a beta. Thats my story of what I've seen and used, others may think different which thats okay since people feel different on things.
 


davehc

Essential Member
Premium Supporter
#37
Vegas Guy. Perhaps your last post was referring to Ted's preceding?
Maybe Ted was using the wrong expression, "Customise". If you have a look at his link, you will see that it is a guide to the different navigation in Windows 8, without having to start by customising the OS.
Quite honestly, if one moved from XP, straight into Vista/Windows 7, the new navigation was horrendous and, unless you began to experiment and hunt around, there was not a lot intuition could really do for you, imo. But I do agree. In the least, most items were available and, with a possible single click, mostly visible also. I cannot understand why MS should have made several functions quite invisible. I wonder, will a retail purchase come with a basic handbook of user procedures? (This is not meant in sarcasm, MS!)
 


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#38
My, how times have changed. Seems not that long ago when trying to bash MS was the name Gates that was cursed. Now, I see the accusatory finger is wielded towards the name Ballmer. Seems all the sh*t runs uphill, to whoever's @ the top.

There is a freedom for one to own an opinion. There is a freedom to present various opinions and differences in supporting one or another.

I suppose there is 1 person (somewhere) in the world who keeps their Harley dead stock, out of the box. As for Windows & computers, bloody rare that NO customizing or personalizing is done.

It is dreadfully unfortunate that the Win8 Start screen should be a brick wall or a moat. Especially, when, in point of fact, to treat it as such, is ungrounded.

To be considered:
1. There is no need for any tiles on Start.
2. There is no need to use or visit Start.
3. Start can be arranged w/ whatever tiles wanted (or not)
4. Tiles there can be Grouped & groups can be Named
5. Tiles can be large OR small
6. Tiles can be such that only real estate is used such that no scrolling is needed.
7. Refer back to #1

Since, one can be 100% @ Desktop, rhetoric bashing Start is a moot point.

And there are only 3 corners... top & bottom-right are identical.

Everything regarding the "How To" of Windows8 is in HELP.

There is a Start orb in Windows8, except it's a rectangle... guess, it can't be called an orb, anymore. NAME CHANGE Alert!! The Start orb in Windows going forward will be referred to as Start Rectangle. The start orb in Windows* has been replaced by a Start Rectangle. Ok, that done, moving on...

Back to being just serious & not tongue in cheek, as well...

(W/out looking @ HELP) Took me a day, maybe day 1/2 to learn/find my way around Win8

Have added NO 3rd party stuff or 'retro-fits'. Have created 1, not originally native (new) Shortcut... doing so is not "hacking" a system!

A few desktop shortcuts, normal in any OS. As stated just usual personalizing... can, only, be tagged, customizing as, no hacking of any sort is involved.... not, even, anything from outside the out-of-the-box OS.

1 Toolbar being used that is, already, available, by default; Simply needed to be enabled

Having long used pre-Win8 systems AND having a dual-boot scenario, A/B comparisons are easy for the undersigned. In that light...

Windows8 is faster, easier, more direct & convenient to navigate, do, find & access things than prior Windows OS

To ignore and be aloof the REST of an OS beyond and besides the silly Start screen is a travesty & makes one question where to short-sightedness lies... w/ Microsoft or elsewhere?

Any condemnation of Win8, Microsoft or Steve Ballmer based on the OS's Start screen can carry no weight as that is using a non-issue. In reality (and everyday usage) the Win8 Start screen is not a problem nor does it cause any.

It takes no time, arduous difficulty or hardship to operate Windows8. It might take an open ear, an open mind and some degree of willingness to discover and a positive attitude.

And we are not absolutely sure @ this date whether in the GA some initial, basic instructions may appear or something. We are, also, not dead sure the UI seen in the RP will not show any mods in the GA.

To write off Win8 based on a misperception or lack of awareness or a less than full understanding of Start is like saying an unread book is bad because of its front cover... there may be many fine pages of enjoyable reading to be found under that cover. And so much of Windows8's virtues are under-the-covers. IF, one takes the attitude to balk @ Windows8 based on the immediate, superficial sight of this OS, the short-sightedness may not lie w/ Microsoft or Steve Ballmer.

The above comment is not directed @ any specific individual but, put forth to & as applying to, the general populous.

Cheers,
Drew
 


#39
VG,

Please, (everyone) be mindful that just because there is a new Windows OS being released in October, as there is every 3 years, there is no obligation to buy it or switch to it, arbitrarily, @ that time. Some will cus it excites them or for whatever personal reason(s). For some it may coincide w/ a need or desire for new hardware, anyway. Certainly, for some it's cus it is, also, time for their 1st computer. For some it will be to have a Win8 tablet or phone. But, nothing says, just cus it's here, one must feel that they must run out in October to purchase it or switch to it. Although, for assorted reasons, that may happen @ some time after October.

Cheers,
Drew
 


Medico

Senior Member
#40
Thank you Dave, I made a small change to the post.

I'm also of the mind that Win 8 will not appeal to everyone. If it does not to you then stick with your present OS and be happy. As Drew mentioned just because a new OS is going to be released on October 26th does not mean you have to switch to it.

Vegas and Shane, it's pretty obvious neither of you like Win 8, so stick with your original OS. IMO, since this is a Win 8 Forum, we do welcome all opinions, but if you have nothing productive to say about Win 8, perhaps your time would best be spent on Win 7 Forums. I prefer comments that show positive ways people have discovered to further the knowledge of how this OS works, that will enlighten others on better ways to get done what we wish to have done with our PC's.

Strictly negative comments on a feature of Win 8, IMO, do not add to the overall discussions of Win 8, especially when all these items have been discussed in great detail previously.
 


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