Windows 10 Forced Windows 10 update damaged my attached external USB hard drive

Karen Grube said:

I'm not asking for advice at this point. What I need is to find out if others have had this problem, but it can't be "I've heard . . .." I really need specific instances or situations if I am going to get Microsoft to help.

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no. I have not sorry.

First of all, whether I had duplicate backups or not isn't relevant. The fact that their process damaged the drive and the data on it is all that's relevant. That's like saying someone smashed up your car but it's okay because you have another one you can drive around in. NO IT IS NOT!

Besides that, you have no clue about how many re-installs, repairs and other processes Microsoft put me through because of Windows 10's issues with drivers they overwrote and other really significant problems over the last year. We're talking MONTHS of being held hostage to my phone and my laptop while their so-called technicians messed around repeating the same stupid unsuccessful "troubleshooting" steps over and over again that they knew wouldn't work!

There was a period when Windows 10 DID NOT allow you to suspend updates. You do know this, right?

It can take days to move a terabyte of data from an external drive to somewhere on a cloud backup server. You ALSO know this, right?

The reason I had the drive plugged in that day was to work on doing just that. I thought I finally had a stable operating system until that forced update.

I never mentioned damages. All I want back is whatever data that can be restored, and a new drive if this one is actually non-functional now due to the sudden power loss caused by the "shutdown." when the system became basically inaccessible while I was accessing the drive.

I started with the Insider Home edition of Windows 10 and ran it for months with nearly constant issues. Now, I'm running the most current retail version and update of Windows 10 Pro which was installed in mid November.

With all of that, Microsoft knew full well that the Windows 10 Anniversary Update had issues with recognizing external drives. Windows 10 Anniversary update problems, not recognizing external hdd - Page 2 - Windows 10 Forums,. But when I called about my drive not being recognized, no one bothered to say a word about it.

To be clear, all I've been asking here is whether or not anyone specifically has encountered the same intentional system slow-down right before seeing in the start menu that you have to "shutdown and update." I've also asked f anyone else had the same or a similar problem with their hard drive not being recognized and perhaps even being damaged. I'm just asking for information, not necessarily advice.

I may try going through the Microsoft dispute process and then further arbitration if I have to, but we'll see. Still, it would be really helpful to know specific instances where others had this issue

I do believe me. I'm a Windows 10 insider since this Windows went live in Jan 2015. I have tested these builds since 9926, the very first build. I now keep my update setting set to preview release ring. they are the most polished builds.

Turning off an external USB drive without going through the safe shutdown process can in some cases cause the drive to change it's format to RAW, or actually become un-formatted.

It's possible that if the external hard drive was turned on during the the update process that Windows shutting down and rebooting has caused this to happen.

I have read of multiple cases where this has happened when an external drive was disconnected unexpectedly.

External Hard drive turned to RAW how to convert to NTFS - [Solved] - Storage
External HDD turned RAW but still salvageable! - [Solved] - Storage
» How To Fix: External Disk Drive Suddenly Became RAW
How to Convert/Change RAW File System to NTFS without Data Loss - EaseUS

No guarantee that this is what happened but it's the only way I can think of that the drive would be damaged by the update.

No idea if any of the solutions listed would work, and the more you mess with it the less likely that it will be recoverable.

I personally didn't find any cases where the person posting claimed that the fault was caused by Windows Update, but it seems possible.

Mike

Most of these issues can be cleared up if a clean install is employed.

Microsof's upgrade process is pants and almost always borks the system in some way.

As soon as i'm able I clean install and usually it's problem solved.

To be clear, I was actually doing a search on the external drive when my system became unresponsive. When that happens - and it had done the same thing at least a half a dozen times in the prior six months or so, it's ALWAYS when Windows is forcing me to Shutdown and Update. I waited a while, but ultimately hitting "Shutdown and Update" was ALL I could do. No other command, key, or click would be acknowledged. I think the combination of the system being in that unresponsive state and the "shutdown" removing power to the drive did something to it. I don't know exactly what yet. I may have to see if I can get a data recovery technician from Fry's to tell me what's really wrong. If all that happened was the drive becoming "raw," that would be great. I just hope the techs at the Store didn't make things worse. I'll know in a few days.

Karen Grube said:

it's ALWAYS when Windows is forcing me to Shutdown and Update.

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Ideally you should have a choice of whether to update there and then or at a later date (although to be honest this is a moot point as the damage has already occurred).

If you never saw a prompt then perhaps your install of Windows is or was a little buggy? Anyhow the important thing is you get your data back if possible and i'm keeping my fingers crossed they haven't totally screwed your drive down at the store.

If you don't mind Karen please keep us updated on how you get on.. Good luck!

It turns out, and I have seen W10 (as well as earlier versions of Windows; back to XP) have external drives as well as internal drives borked by Microsoft Updates. Often, it's due to User errors either in configuration or daily usage; and that is usually a result of lack of training in the Business workplace environment.

Thanks for telling us which version of W10 you are running; W10 Pro. Now that we know that; I can tell you that Microsoft can make a case that you had the version of the software which allowed updates to be disabled, or the very least rescheduled to a date and time of your choosing. Further, if you chose not to use that feature the fault lays with you, not them. If you claim you weren't aware of that feature or capability in W10, that's going to be a weak defense in my opinion, as you've been running W10 since the Insider Preview editions, at least 1.5 years or longer, and should have been aware of this information. [personally, I find this to be bogus as I mentioned I only found out about it a few months ago, here on WF myself; and I've been an Insider Tester since Sep. 2014].

As you can probably tell by now, I'm on your side on this and hope you can achieve getting your drive recovered or getting them to pay for the Data Recovery you are now having to go outside of Microsoft to get done (@ Fry's) or other Computer Techs you have to pay to do this. I'm simply playing devil's advocate here, and I have been in a few formal court hearings over similar things during my career in IT.

My esteemed colleagues aren't trying to give you non-pertinent advice, they are just used to solving Technical problems and are trying to prevent you from repeating your mistake in the future. They may not have experience with the gathering of evidence to be used in a court hearing or arbritration hearing and can't wrap their heads around that.

Even though, you and I agree that it's not YOUR mistake, it's a flaw or flaws in the W10 Operating System that caused your drive failure. Microsoft will maintain that you didn't take adequate backup measures, since you had all your Personal Data stored on that 1 backup drive. However, from my perspective probably 98% of my Clients don't have their Personal Data properly backed up in at least 2 separate different types of media (DVD discs, external Hard Drives). Businesses should be adhering to the "Grandfather Principle" which requires businesses to have at least 3 different types of backup media in at least 2 different physical locations. This is considered "Best Practices" by Insurance companies, and if not done, they are not insurable by most large Insurance Companies for data loss or Disaster Recovery restoration fees. More than 1 business I know of, has gone Bankrupt from having to pay to put in all new computers and a completely new computer network to support it. From a professional standpoint then, you can maintain that you were taking "reasonable" backup precautions for any normal home user; that is having 1 external hard drive on which to store your Personal Data. If Microsoft maintains you should have done more--I saw "pee-shaw", not likely! This should bode in your favor in court or arbitration hearing I believe. Again, I'm not an Attorney as I keep repeating, but I have lots of experience with this stuff in over 1,500 companies I worked in that had me working on their computer stuff.

Well, I'm off to do some paperwork and go watch it snow some more.

If you have any further questions or advice on how to proceed, please update us and write back. I wish you all the luck in the world!

<<<<BBJ>>>>

BIGBEARJEDI said:

It turns out, and I have seen W10 (as well as earlier versions of Windows; back to XP) have external drives as well as internal drives borked by Microsoft Updates. Often, it's due to User errors either in configuration or daily usage; and that is usually a result of lack of training in the Business workplace environment.

Thanks for telling us which version of W10 you are running; W10 Pro. Now that we know that; I can tell you that Microsoft can make a case that you had the version of the software which allowed updates to be disabled, or the very least rescheduled to a date and time of your choosing.

If you have any further questions or advice on how to proceed, please update us and write back. I wish you all the luck in the world!

<<<<BBJ>>>>

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I was running the Windows 10 Home Edition at the time this occurred, so no, I couldn't stop the updates.

I'm still trying to get documentation on the behavior that occurred with the update. This had happened to me at least six times before with Windows 10 updates over several months. I'd be working away (browser, programs, etc.) when suddenly the system would slow to an absolute crawl. Keys that I pressed wouldn't be echoed on the screen. Mouse clicks wouldn't execute anything from the desktop or in a program or browser window. EVERY SINGLE TIME this happened, I would check the Start menu, and EVERY SINGLE TIME, it would say "Shutdown and Update." This was the ONLY action I could take. Period. No other action was possible. I was even in a webinar once - a really important one to me - and it hung until I hit "shutdown and update" and updated.

I can't get Microsoft to admit that this behavior was intended in order to force me to update, or even admit that they have had anyone else call about this behavior. I don't believe that. Having said that, it wasn't until this behavior killed my external drive that I decided to complain about it. I'm guessing that most people are just excusing it and not bothering to call as long as it doesn't trash their system or ruin something they were doing.

Again, I need to know if anyone else has experienced this. I strongly believe it is this behavior that resulted in the system not shutting down property and trashing the external hard drive.

I'll be surprised if you get any where with this.

Microsoft would probably spend whatever it takes in court rather then admit that they had any culpability in this.

Once they open that door it would never close.

Every person who has a hardware failure would want them to pay for it.

Well, they did decline to appeal the $10,000 judgment against them for the forced Windows 10 Upgrade. I think I'm on solid ground.

kemical said:

Ideally you should have a choice of whether to update there and then or at a later date (although to be honest this is a moot point as the damage has already occurred).

If you never saw a prompt then perhaps your install of Windows is or was a little buggy? Anyhow the important thing is you get your data back if possible and i'm keeping my fingers crossed they haven't totally screwed your drive down at the store.

If you don't mind Karen please keep us updated on how you get on.. Good luck!

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Thanks for asking for an update.

The external drive finally arrived at DriveSavers and they just let me know that the drive suffered "catastrophic" damage and no data is recoverable.

I will be receiving a report from them by email shortly detailing what they found, and the drive back by mail in a few days.

I did discuss with a technician the possibility of the damage being caused by the power being removed during the forced update. What he said was that a normal shutdown process first makes sure that all external devices are no longer being accessed. He said that part of the shut down procedure is to make sure that all processes have ended before the shut down. I understand that typically works well for a normal shutdown, but I'm not convinced that it worked correctly in this circumstance, where all the resources were being used to run the update and that it may not have had the resources necessary to stop the search I was running on the external drive at that particular moment before removing power to the device. He couldn't say whether or not removing the power suddenly might have caused the damage they saw, though he said it wasn't likely. Their job is to recover data when they can, not make a determination as to what caused the loss.

If you have any thoughts about whether or not the power being removed suddenly may have caused this level of damage, please let me know.

Damage to the file structure is possible when the power goes out faster than the system can handle yes... However its hard to prove that was the cause when other contenders such as 3rd party virus | antivirus software is also a known culprit

Damaged hardware (as in physical damage to the disc part if the harddrive) is also possible when a replacement driver tries to make the disc spin at speeds the manufacturer hasn't allowed for... This is the reason some safeguard practices were forced out

The drive "suffered catastrophic failure" meaning it was a head crash. I doubt a virus or my anti-virus would cause that at just the moment of a Window's 10 update. I also doubt the drive would just choose to go bad at that very moment. I have no clue what point the update process was at when my system suddenly became unresponsive. My guess, however, is that drivers aren't changed or updated until AFTER the reboot, when the system is actually installing all of its updates. I can tell you, I couldn't "eject" the external drive using the system tray icon because the mouse was unresponsive and wouldn't let me.

I am seriously considering filing a formal dispute with Microsoft over this. I'm shell shocked at the moment and don't quite know what direction to take. I had years of archived files on that drive that I was just about to duplicate onto cloud storage that very day, which is why the drive was connected in the first place. My biggest problem is that Microsoft techs won't even admit there was an issue with the Anniversary Update and recognizing external drives, yet alone admit that their auto updates make your system grind to a screeching halt and won't let you stop them or exit the process, at least it didn't in the Windows 10 Home edition at the time.

Can I prove the shutdown and update process killed the drive? No, not definitively. But the preponderance of the evidence absolutely points to the damage having been caused by a sudden removal of power while the drive was being accessed. Given the coincidental nature of the failure and the known issue of the Windows' 10 auto-updates making the system inaccessible by tying up all available resources, the most logical conclusion is that the shutdown caused the failure given the circumstances. According to Occam's razor, "other things being equal, simpler explanations are generally better than more complex ones."

As @ussnorway say's HDD damage/Data loss typically occurs when the machine isn't shut down properly. One of my friends built a system for his kiddies and all seemed fine for a while. Eventually he discovered the kids had been shutting the machine down by simply yanking out the wall socket.. The HDD was basically buggered so after a stern lecture on how to shut the machine down properly, a new one was obtained and the system was back to running as it should..

Yes! Exactly! But my problem is getting Microsoft to admit that the shutdown didn't occur properly in this circumstance. They keep claiming that this can't have happened, that their shut down always works properly. What a crock!

Hi Karen,
Not sure who "Data Savers" is unless it's Fry's or Microsoft Store's data recovery service. In any case, that's not the final word on your data recovery. Neither of those places are reliable and used by professionals.

If you still want your data back, or at least some of it you need to send it out to Professional Data Recovery services, not either of the places above. There are only 2 services in the U.S. that are reliable, and both are very very expensive. However, they get results, and they use similar method to the ones used by the U.S. Government and many State and Federal law enforcement agencies.

The 2 companies are:
1.) Best Buy - Geek Squad services provided in Memphis, TN
Link Removed

2.) Kroll Ontrack in Minneapolis, MN
Link Removed

These are the only 2 companies I've been using for over 25 years that are reputable. The price listed is usually under $100 US but that only gets the process started. Dead-drive recoveries ARE possible, contrary to what these yahoos are telling you. Recovery prices for dead drives can be from $200-$80k or more, of course the high end of the range are for business recovery not personal. Personal ranges from $200-$800 or so. I've never paid more than $800 for a personal data recovery. Last one I did was for a WD 750GB MyBook external drive similar to yours my son had. It had about 4 years of usage on it or so. That's when those start to fail usually. Drive was not spinning, and he had 10 years worth of his music library, photos, videos, and movies on there. Total cost through Geek Squad was $550. This price included shipping back his recovered files onto a brand new WD external HDD. According to him, we achieved about 97% recovery! I've seen even higher recovery rates than that on totally DEAD drives as well.

With Best Buy, they have thousands of stores in the US and several in SoCal. You're best bet if you use them, is to walk into their Service Department and hand a Geek Squad Agent your drive and tell them your story, you'll have to fill out about 6-7 pages of paperwork for all the disclaimers and hold-harmless causes in case they cannot get all or most of your stuff back. Very standard, don't sweat signing it. Right now, you have ZERO off that drive anyway, so even if they only recovered 1 file from your dead drive, you'd be better off.

With Kroll-Ontrack; they are in Minnesota so you'll have to ship your drive there. Make sure and insure it with the carrier you ship with (USPS, UPS, FEDEX, DHL, etc.) for your full purchase value of that drive or an equivalent replacement; say $150 for example. You pay the shipping to them, and after the repair, they pay the return shipping to you (same as Geek Squad does) on their dime; which is expected these days for this type of service.

Anyway, I didn't want you to give up on that drive, as I can pretty much guarantee you there is still stuff on there that I could get off from it, and I don't have a 5 million dollar lab to do so. If that stuff is worth as much as you say it is, you'll have to spend some big bucks to recover it. Once you do so, you can decide whether or not to try and sue Microsoft and recover whatever those recovery costs are. Make certain to document the entire process and of course keep any receipts for data recovery services you get from either of those companies should you decide to use them.

Keep us informed.
Best,
<<<<BBJ>>>>

I'm sorry. I provided the wrong name of the company that examined the drive. The correct name is DriveSavers. Here is their link.

Data Recovery by DriveSavers

They are the company Fry's sent the drive to.

I should get the drive back in a day or so, and will gladly ship it to another company for a second look as long as there is no charge. When the drive arrives, I'll check with the companies you mentioned .If there's any data that can be recovered, I'll ask for an estimate of the cost and talk with Microsoft again.

Thank you!
Karen

I think I heard of them; they are not on my Short list of good companies to use. That's only MY opinion, not the opinion of WF forum just to be clear.

Also, need to be clear that these companies don't give out freebies; you pay WHETHER OR NOT THEY ARE SUCCESSFUL IN RECOVERING YOUR DATA! I want to be clear on that. They are used by professionals, and they get few home users and they have no idea how difficult or expensive the process is or how time consuming it is. Like I said, it's a last resort effort you should try if it's worth it to you financially. If it's not worth $50-$100 for you to make the attempt, no offense but the stuff on that drive just isn't that important to you. If this is a "showstopper" for you, then fine. If you brought your drive to me and I spent weeks working on it and could get nothing off of it; these are the only 2 companies that I have personal experience with who will get guaranteed results. If they can't get anything off your "dead drive" then no one can.

Good luck!
<<<BBJ>>>

BIGBEARJEDI said:

I think I heard of them; they are not on my Short list of good companies to use. That's only MY opinion, not the opinion of WF forum just to be clear.

Also, need to be clear that these companies don't give out freebies; you pay WHETHER OR NOT THEY ARE SUCCESSFUL IN RECOVERING YOUR DATA! I want to be clear on that. They are used by professionals, and they get few home users and they have no idea how difficult or expensive the process is or how time consuming it is. Like I said, it's a last resort effort you should try if it's worth it to you financially. If it's not worth $50-$100 for you to make the attempt, no offense but the stuff on that drive just isn't that important to you. If this is a "showstopper" for you, then fine. If you brought your drive to me and I spent weeks working on it and could get nothing off of it; these are the only 2 companies that I have personal experience with who will get guaranteed results. If they can't get anything off your "dead drive" then no one can.

Good luck!
<<<BBJ>>>

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I'll call and discuss it with each of them. More often than not, however, there is no charge if no data can be recovered. Microsoft should be paying for this anyway. But as I said, I'll check with these recovery providers as soon as the drive arrives.