Windows 7 Hands up those who've wiped their original OS. How to Move On

[jimbo45]

Hi guys
I hope that NONE of you has irreparably wiped your original OS since if there is no Upgrade path from Beta 7 to the Final 7 you'll either have to re-install your Old OS to get an upgrade version or have to buy a totally new version which will of course cost considerably more.

For example a Brand new copy of Microsoft Office 2007 (Enterprise) in the UK costs more than a decent Laptop plus Student edition 2007 thrown in. Considerable difference in price even for an upgrade.

If you've been imbecelic enough to wipe your OS I'd look at buying an OEM edition of Vista or XP -- don't install it just yet but install it ONCE ONLY for the W7 upgrade.

Note an OEM copy unlike a normal retail version CAN'T be transferred to a new computer - that includes a computer where you've upgraded the Mobo. You might get away with it if just the processor has been upgraded but you can never rely on whose at the other end of the Microsoft Activation Lines.

Cheers
jimbo

 

[davehc]

"For example a Brand new copy of Microsoft Office 2007 (Enterprise) in the UK costs more than a decent Laptop plus Student edition 2007 thrown in. Considerable difference in price even for an upgrade."

This must be relevant to your post in some way, but I can't seem to relate it.??

"If you've been imbecelic enough to wipe your OS "
It doesn't take so long to reinstall it, if thats where you are going?

 

[jimbo45]

Hi there -- Yes you CAN re-install it but from what.

I'm referring to those cases now where you don't get any install disks but just some "recovery software" which pulls up an image from a hidden partition -- if you've wiped the disks this won't work anymore -- Bye Bye OS install. There's still a lot of stuff out there where these systems are delivered with no install disk.

Incidentally even the recovery software supplied with these machines isn't always 100% fool proof either and it's a HUGE hassle to get a replacement.

The relevance to the full price of Microsoft Office was to explain that their can be a HUGE difference in paying for a NEW product or an Upgrade.
In this case the price differntial is HUGE but it is an example of what can happen.

(I do think that all computers that have Windows installed on them should come with a properly licensed Windows install disk -- OEM disks will have an OEM product number anyway - these hidden partition image restores should be OUTLAWED).

Cheers
jimbo

 

[Radenight]

@jimbo45

I must say I don't agree with all of your statement.. however, I do strongly agree with the fact that all Windows PC's that you buy either online or in a store should indeed come with a properly licensed Windows disc.. and not this recovery crap.. I don't see why they don't by default to be honest.. I can kinda understand some of the arguments as to why they don't come with one, but still.. If I was to go out and spend $1000+ on a brand new comp mainly because it came with a certain version of Windows on it, I'd expect to get a disc containing a full copy of the Operating System that I could then use to reinstall or to have as a backup in case my compy crashed... I mean really.. when you buy a new computer.. your paying for the license.. so why not included the little piece of plastic that costs absolutely nothing to make with the OS on it... Not to mention the fact that anyone who knows anything about computers that goes out and buys one pre-built would want to reinstall the OS in the first place anyway considering the amount of bloat and absolute garbage that comes installed on a pre-built rig...

I donno.. just another one of those things we're not really ment to fully understand I guess..

 

[ldkoi]

You know why they do it? It's so that when your puter crashes, they have you buy the taquitos and can charge whatever the heck they want to for the recovery CD.. i know ONE person who got the recovery CD's sent to him free. but that's because when he bought his lap top from wal mart, it had French Vista on it. LOL

 

[Kai]

I wiped my Harddrive to install Wndows 7. But I did it because I already have a OEM disk that Fujitsu Siemens sent me with my laptop

 

[john3347]

May I throw my two cents worth in on this discussion? I, like most if not all of the rest of you, do not like that there is no recovery CD included with a new "store bought" computer. BUT.....let me give you a problem that installing the recovery partition on the harddrive solves. (Exclude anyone who "knows anything about their computer" from what I am about to describe.) How many typical home computer users would be able to locate the recovery CD that came with their computers two years down the road when something goes terribly wrong? They take their computer (without the recovery disc) to "Joe's Computer Repair". Joe has a problem! No, really it isn't Joe who has the problem, it is the computer owner who has to pay Joe for his time obtaining all the drivers,etc. who has the problem. Onboard recovery solves this problem for almost any failure other than a total harddrive malfunction. Since there are so many million more "typical home computer users" than those who would slide a recovery disc into the CD drive when "something goes terribly wrong" that maybe there is a need for onboard recovery information. It really is not a major problem for the rest of us to create a recovery disc as part of our initial computer set-up. After you have your recovery DVD with drivers, bloatware, OS, and who knows what else, you can wipe out D drive and use that space for something else if you desire.

 

[Joe S]

I partitioned my HD. I like windows 7 fine but can't see buying a copy at full price when It comes out since Vista runs fine. I'm annoyed by the lack of an actual disk too. When you reinstall from the image you also get all of the preinstalled crap that was on it so you can't actually do a clean install of the system. Some of your repair options are limited also. Without a clean install disk you are also prevented from slipstreaming and creating an up to date disk which was easy to do in XP.
Joe

 

[jimbo45]

Hi there - Good point about slipstreaming

I tend to disagree with the usual system of not having a Windows install Disk.

-- users eventually look at the hard disk space and say hey I've got another 25 (or more) GB here -- I'll delete this and use it for my data.

Then when they need to restore -- Bang -- Recovery disk can't find the data.

If they need a recovery disk they should just be able to boot from the DVD with the DATA on the DVD itself. That to me whilst not good is far far better than the hidden partition method. Besides a lot of users are actually quite savvy at taking out the ususally small drive that comes with a store bought computer and replace it with a nice fast SATA 750 GB drive. Even altering the drive configurations can screw up a lot of the "Hard Disk based" recovery systems to say nothing of the Boot Loader itself.

In any case the computer is Licensed for Windows so why not ALWAYS INCLUDE the Windows disk --whether a user chooses to use this aor not is of course up to them as well as all the recovery crap. It's only an extra DVD.

Some firms like HP I believe still give you a Disk.

I rarely buy a "Store" computer these days as I prefer to "Roll my own" but if I did I'd probably have to spend half a day uninstalling all the pre-installed junk that I don't want anyway.

Cheers
jimbo

 

[john3347]

Joe S, when you either purchase the recovery disc from the manufacturer, which is personalized for your particular model computer, or reinstall from the recovery partition, you still get all the bloatware, .......and all the drivers, etc, too. The only way to do a true "clean install" is to buy an OEM or Retail copy of the OS.

 

[thislilfishy]

Yeah, I decided to 'roll my own' this time around. Cept I didn't have a new version of Vista to install, just the pre-installed one on my HP system which I junked. So it's even worse, I have a licenced piece of software that I can't use. Very frustrating, I anguished over which OS to use on the new system, until I heard about the Windows 7 Beta. I was leaning more towards Linux (likely SuSe, Ubuntu 8.10 has some issues still) but thought I'd give 7 a shot. So far so good...just a few bugs and missing drivers. Nothing to prevent actual use though.

I just wish there was an indicator that showed a program (typically during installing software) was still working. It sometimes seems like the installation program disappears then comes back a few minutes later to tell you it's done..or something has gone wrong...

Ian

 

[Kyle]

Haha.

I wiped both my desktop and laptop and have Windows 7 Beta running as the only OS on both.
But, unlike most users, I have nothing to worry about.

I have copies of all my disks. (Well, all my disks are copies...)
I have all my data backed up in duplicate (Both to a second hard drive on the computer, and an external)
I always do clean installs of OS' anyways, so I'm not looking to upgrade (Clean installs leave less 'bloat' and work better)
I'll have Windows 7 Ultimate RTM on October 3rd if all goes well (That's the tentative RTM date, and as any good Pirate knows, that's also the day it hits the interwebs, on the higher level channels, anyways.)

So yeah, nothing to worry about.

 

[reghakr]

jimbo,

Even if there is an upgrade option, I highly recommend you do a "clean install" as I've done this update option with other versions of Windows and you end up with several hundred old files from the previous OS that are of no use at all

I've got an HP and although it comes with tons of HP crap, that's the first thing I uninstaled. However, all you have to do (if your PC comes with the recovery partion) is to copy or more (doesn't matter) the application files to an external drive. For instance, I didn't want to lose my apps such as Cyberlink Power Producer, DVD Blue-ray DVD Play, Power2 go, Label Print, Lighscribe and muvee auto producer, so they can be re-installed.

It did not come with a recovery disk, although after having so many problems with it, they finally agreed to send me 3 DVD's for re-installing.

You can also use a free forensic tool called FTK Imager, to make a bit stream copy of the recovery partition, then delete it.

You can download FTK Imager here:

AccessData Downloads

Scroll down to the utilities section and choose FTK Imager 2.55. When you've imaged the logical drive, you can simply export the applications wherever you prefer and re-install them
Actually, my recovery partition is only 9 GB in size.

 

[john3347]

I am one of the "lucky ones". I have a computer dedicated to experimental OS's. I have played with various Linux versions and currently, of course, Windows 7. I do not have, and will not have, anything critical on this computer as long as it is being used as it currently is. I also have another computer that isn't used for any critical applications that I download any and every interesting free application to sample. I find a few good freebes and many duds this way. I'm one of download.com's best "customers". Unfortunately, my Vista computer crashes so often and does so many strange things that I cannot understand, that it is only for play and I cannot trust any critical documents or applications on it either. Hopefully Windows 7 will be to SP2 stage before I start running into many applications that will not work with XP and older applications as I did with Windows 2000.

 

[jimbo45]

Joe S, when you either purchase the recovery disc from the manufacturer, which is personalized for your particular model computer, or reinstall from the recovery partition, you still get all the bloatware, .......and all the drivers, etc, too. The only way to do a true "clean install" is to buy an OEM or Retail copy of the OS.

If I'm buying a Computer from the store then why should I pay EXTRA for a Windows Disc when the computer ALREADY has a License. I wouldn't mind if the computer was sold WITHOUT an OS (at a cheaper price) and then you could pick your OS to go with it.

Actually the last time I bought a "Built computer" I haggled with the store manager and got a Retail version of Windows Home Premium thrown in -- in the current economic climate it's always worth asking -- the worst is they say NO -- you aren't any worse off - but you might be suprised - they want to make a sale. This won't work however for Online sales of course.

These days (apart from Laptops) I "Roll my own" when it comes to computers -- parts are quite easy to fit together - you don't need an Engineering degree to put a computer together and you get a decent machine according to the specs YOU want without a whole slew of Bloat, and adware.

Cheers
jimbo

 

[john3347]

Jimbo, I agree with your position on every point you make in the previous thread. Every time I go to my Vista machine, I threaten to upgrade it to XP but I did that with a previous Vista machine when Vista was quite new and I later wished I had not done that. It appeared that it would have been a hassle not worth the effort. It is true that I have a license to the original OS on the computer that is now serving well as a Winsows Home Server. My other Vista machine that was purchased about a year ago is still serving (serving????) as a Vista machine. (I think I am straying from the point I am trying to make.) What I started out to say was that when a harddrive fails, Gateway wants you to pay $20 "shipping and handling" for a recovery disc and try to reinstall the OS by that method before they will ship you a replacement harddrive. If I had created a recovery DVD from the recovery drive prior to the harddrive failure, they would not have required me to obtain THEIR recovery disc and would have gone ahead and sent the harddrive based on my word that I had tried the DVD. In this particular instance, the harddrive failed on a less that 3 month old computer. So I was not required to buy THEIR recovery software, I was only required to obtain a recovery disc appropriate for my cocmputer model. I could - should - have "obtained" this DVD by following the manufacturer and Microsoft suggested procedure to image D drive.

I like your idea of haggling for a retail version of your OS along with the computer purchase even tho there exists an installed OS. It will cost the retailer a whole lot less to give you a retail version of an OS than it will cost you to buy one outright.

I also usually build my own computers from partially new stuff (motherboard, processor and memory) and partially old stuff. When a "last months'" computer model goes on sale (with an installed OS) for less money than I culd build an equal computer for, I will sometimes buy the "store bought" computer. I build and buy too many computers, then, often after only a few months, give them to children, grandchildren, etc.

The point I was trying to make to Joe S was that even the "full" recovery disc (which is a DVD in Vista) supplied by the computer manufacturer contains the same bloatware, etc. as the original installation and the recovery partition on the harddrive. Your scheme of haggling for a retail version of the OS at time of purchase solves this issue - cleanly.