People With Computer Problems

Joe S

Excellent Member
#1
It seems to me that the biggest group of people having problems are trying to use an old computer. Then another group thinks that changing a thing or two like motherboard memory graphics card on an old computer is all that is needed. It seems to me that if the computer was not built for Vista you are more likely to have problems. And the lower end computer starting point just ads to the problems. I also think many of the people are inexperienced at loading any system and tweaking it to their taste. I think the free RC programs got more people to experiment than would have if they had to buy the software.
Joe
 


Ed Dixon

Senior Member
#2
I think the problem with those with older machines is not so much the machine, but the other stuff there today.

I have W7 running on a couple of different PCs now. Some newer and fairly capable and some much older and limp in comparison. So far, W7 seems to have similar performance to XP, so most upgrade users will not see a significant gain or loss (like most did with Vista).

The issue with older machines, beyond the experience of the user already mentioned, is the presence of older hardware and software that is currently in use. Some percentage of this will just not function on XP. Hardware will have missing drivers or no support for W7. The same will be true for software., from both the view that some just wo’nt/can’t work on W7 as well as the issue that a W7 fresh install requires a reinstall of all programs and many users with older machines will have long since lost their CDs or install downloads.

Ed
 


#3
I was going to add some to this but after reading the last two posts there's really not much to add.. You both make VERY valid points on both sides of the "argument".. ;) Well done.. :)
 


#4
Not to step on any toes but,, the whole moral to the thread should be.......

To get new users to understand that Vista/7 is NOT XP.
They are different in many many ways.

So they should NOT expect that 7 will run like XP.

And as to older systems.
Again, 7 is not XP, you can not expect that full compatibility exists in 7 for your older Software/Hardware.
 


Ed Dixon

Senior Member
#5
Not to step on any toes but,, the whole moral to the thread should be.......

To get new users to understand that Vista/7 is NOT XP.
They are different in many many ways.

So they should NOT expect that 7 will run like XP.

And as to older systems.
Again, 7 is not XP, you can not expect that full compatibility exists in 7 for your older Software/Hardware.
I think that the people here all understand this. The issue is that most consumers don't.

Ed
 


#6
I agree. And with more and more users coming on board with 7 in the near future, the facts I pointed out should be like wall paper for a while.

Because trust me, it will be repeated endlessly for the next year or so.

"Stop comparing Vista/7 to XP, they are not the same OS"
 


john3347

Extraordinary Member
Premium Supporter
#7
"Stop comparing Vista/7 to XP, they are not the same OS"


I want to sprinkle a little rain on your parade. You continually admonish one to not compare Windows 7 with XP. I do not understand the thought behind this recommendation. If I (or anyone) own a computer with XP and I am considering replacing it with something else why would I NOT compare what I have with what I may be considering as a replacement? One MUST compare Windows 7 with XP if they are to make a wise and reasonable decision whether to migrate or not. Sure, XP is built on a different platform from Windows 7 and is not "the same OS", but they both have the same function of running one's applications. They are both "playing the same game" and therefore ARE to be compared with each other.

XP does "things" that seven will not do and seven does "things" that XP will not do. One must compare the capabilities and shortcomings of each before making a decision whether seven will make a suitable replacement for XP and whether there would be enough value added to warrant whatever cost is involved.
 


Ed Dixon

Senior Member
#8
Most consumers don't give a crap about platform, and most don't even know what that means. What they do want to know is if they will gain more than they lose when moving from XP/Vista (or anything else) to W7.

Its a little like buying a new car. The worlds greatest 2 seater is mostly worthless to a couple with 2 kids.

Ed
 


john3347

Extraordinary Member
Premium Supporter
#9
Most consumers don't give a crap about platform, and most don't even know what that means. What they do want to know is if they will gain more than they lose when moving from XP/Vista (or anything else) to W7.

Its a little like buying a new car. The worlds greatest 2 seater is mostly worthless to a couple with 2 kids.

Ed


Yes, my point exactly! And they must compare one to the other to make that decision.
 


lorenkjr1

Extraordinary Member
#10
At least for me 7 is more stable. Vista could be a bear such as reinstalling and all. Hopefully those days will go away now that 7 is coming out. I have forgotten but, I don't believe I ever got to service pack 3 in XP. Though I had my share of crashes there to if I remember correctly. And when I really look back at XP, do like Aero very much. Sure it takes a computer to run it but, thats about it when new operating systems come out.
 


Ed Dixon

Senior Member
#11
For me, stability is about the same between XP and W7. I do note that IE8 tends to go stale more often in W7 than XP.

Ed
 


#12
Ok, WE know, in a certain sense, Vista/7 doesn't get/shouldn't be compared to XP. In another sense 'comparison' will

Cus the idea that Vista is terrible floats around, there's excitement that 7 is better, comparatively.

As for comparisons against XP, there is more to it that meets the eye, be that eye trained or untrained. And it sure does not all have to do w/ speed! Just as an aside, I was on the phone w/ MS Tech Support yesterday & the CSR said, "Mainstream support for that product (XP) is over." Not sure that's really quite accurate but, anyway, point is, dear John Doe End User, we are talking about an OS that is 10 yrs old and blah, blah, blah. There was stuff XP Ready. There was (a little, lol) stuff Vista Ready and there will be stuff Windows 7 Ready (hopefully lots, lol). However, @ the end of the day, there is a continuum & for many reasons & on many levels, @ least in terms of how the average End User perceives things, 'comparatively', they can be told Windows 7 is better (to use) than XP and even add that they did well to miss the Vista step in between.

Oh, and I've seen ppl saying something about the Look & Feel of Windows 7 being similar to Vista, as if that's a bad thing; yet ppl don't like huge change from what they have become accustom... can't have your cake & eat it, too. As someone said, how far can one depart from what computers basically do or how they get that done. Sure 7 is somewhat like Vista, in some ways different ( more or less appealing?; cosmetics are so subjective!)... but, what the hell do ppl expect?... it IS

As long as WE know how things stack up & WE are willing to advise & educate there has to be trust from clients even w/out all the deep techy stuff they don't know or understand. They need stuff explained, just so everything makes sense & can be appreciated but, there is no reason they should have to take the onus to deal w/ all the deep techy bits ('cuse the pun)... that's exactly why WE exist... the deep techy bits are OUR concern, not theirs.

So, for some reasons they should not be compared; for other reasons they will & can be compared.

Thanks for listening.

Regards,
Drew

"A scan a day keeps the nasties away." happen. different, DOH, hello.
That's all fine Drew but your forgetting one crucial thing.. People in general are dumb.. It's a sad fact.. People let other people's opinions about something influence them way too much.. ;) And as a result a large number of people will avoid Windows 7 just because their buddy told them it's just like Windows Vista (for example).. :) I see what your saying and I do agree with most of it but unfortunately a lot of people just don't see it that way.. It's their loss of course...
 


#13
That's all fine Drew but your forgetting one crucial thing.. People in general are dumb.. It's a sad fact.. People let other people's opinions about something influence them way too much.. ;) And as a result a large number of people will avoid Windows 7 just because their buddy told them it's just like Windows Vista (for example).. :) I see what your saying and I do agree with most of it but unfortunately a lot of people just don't see it that way.. It's their loss of course...
Your right Raedenight but that is why I think MS went with a public beta and unlimited RC this time around at least there are alot of informed opinions bouncing around out there as well.

I'm not hearing nearly the amount of negative FUD about this release. By this point in Vista's development I was already hearing the rumblings, hell by this point in Vista's development I think a GA was missed.

The other hopeful sign is that I am hearing a small buzz in the "couldn't be farther from IT" segment of society. Even to the point that several of my mothers co workers have asked to be among the first customers of my barely conceptualized business by having me perform an upgrade on there various OS's to Seven.

Some of these people are feeling what I call "Aero Envy" having skipped Vista entirely due to it's bad press.

The others are so tired of the bad taste in their mouths from the x64 flavor of Vista that they want an alternative to downgrading to a 32 bit OS (they were told 64 bit is better it just doesn't work with all their stuff).

These segments of the population were non existent when Vista was released so I guess we will see if it actually translates into anything.
 


#14
Your right Raedenight but that is why I think MS went with a public beta and unlimited RC this time around at least there are alot of informed opinions bouncing around out there as well.

I'm not hearing nearly the amount of negative FUD about this release. By this point in Vista's development I was already hearing the rumblings, hell by this point in Vista's development I think a GA was missed.

The other hopeful sign is that I am hearing a small buzz in the "couldn't be farther from IT" segment of society. Even to the point that several of my mothers co workers have asked to be among the first customers of my barely conceptualized business by having me perform an upgrade on there various OS's to Seven.

Some of these people are feeling what I call "Aero Envy" having skipped Vista entirely due to it's bad press.

The others are so tired of the bad taste in their mouths from the x64 flavor of Vista that they want an alternative to downgrading to a 32 bit OS (they were told 64 bit is better it just doesn't work with all their stuff).

These segments of the population were non existent when Vista was released so I guess we will see if it actually translates into anything.
That is true my friend.. I guess I didn't really look at it from both points of view.. ;)
 


john3347

Extraordinary Member
Premium Supporter
#15
That's all fine Drew but your forgetting one crucial thing.. People in general are dumb.. It's a sad fact.. People let other people's opinions about something influence them way too much.. ;) And as a result a large number of people will avoid Windows 7 just because their buddy told them it's just like Windows Vista (for example).. :) I see what your saying and I do agree with most of it but unfortunately a lot of people just don't see it that way.. It's their loss of course...

I must be a self-appointed spokesman for the masses. Sometimes I elect myself to that role and sometimes I just fall into it.

People in general are not necessarily dumb, they just have different interests. Computer techs think highly trained auto techs are "dumb" because they choose to spend their "energies" on automobiles and are not proficient with computers except to diagnose auto functions. These highly trained auto techs think highly trained computer techs are dumb because they have no desire to spend hours and considerable dollars for schooling to learn to do much more with their automobiles than get from where they are to where they want to be. Highly skilled wood craftsmen think highly trained & highly skilled computer techs are dumb because they cannot build some intricate wooden object.

It all boils down to personal interests and priorities. The masses, no matter how smart or dumb they are, are just like auto owners. They ABSOLUTELY don't care about the inner workings of their computer - or automobile, they ABSOLUTELY do not care how they work; they just want them to work and to be simple and easy to use. Can you picture Einstein trying to overhaul the brakes or transmission on an automobile? Does that picture make him dumb? (I don't remember, but he was probably too "dumb" to even drive a car.)

When computer developers learn this simple concept, that is when they will begin producing real blockbuster applications and operating systems.

That's my story, and the masses are backing me up.
 


#16
It is the difference between being in your element and not.
Some things are just plain common sense, which is highly lacking in todays society.

What is dumb is people who think they know a thing or 2 about a thing or 2 and then spout off about how bad a thing or 2 is when they really don't know what they are talking about beyond the thing or 2 they think they know.

********
We are all guilty and not immune from time to time.
 


#17
I must be a self-appointed spokesman for the masses. Sometimes I elect myself to that role and sometimes I just fall into it.

People in general are not necessarily dumb, they just have different interests. Computer techs think highly trained auto techs are "dumb" because they choose to spend their "energies" on automobiles and are not proficient with computers except to diagnose auto functions. These highly trained auto techs think highly trained computer techs are dumb because they have no desire to spend hours and considerable dollars for schooling to learn to do much more with their automobiles than get from where they are to where they want to be. Highly skilled wood craftsmen think highly trained & highly skilled computer techs are dumb because they cannot build some intricate wooden object.

It all boils down to personal interests and priorities. The masses, no matter how smart or dumb they are, are just like auto owners. They ABSOLUTELY don't care about the inner workings of their computer - or automobile, they ABSOLUTELY do not care how they work; they just want them to work and to be simple and easy to use. Can you picture Einstein trying to overhaul the brakes or transmission on an automobile? Does that picture make him dumb? (I don't remember, but he was probably too "dumb" to even drive a car.)

When computer developers learn this simple concept, that is when they will begin producing real blockbuster applications and operating systems.

That's my story, and the masses are backing me up.
Well you must one of the lucky one's John because the part of the world I'm from backs my theory pretty well.. ;) I'm not saying common sense doesn't play a role in things... I'm saying that people in general are dumb, and they are. Society is influenced far too much by things like the Media (for example).. And other people's word.. If you stop and think about how many people are going to avoid Windows 7 just because so and so told them it sucks and is just like Vista it's disappointing.. And this doesn't just apply to computers. The same goes for movies (for example), you go see a movie and formulate an opinion about it.. Then you tell your friends that it was either good and that they should go see it or you tell them it sucked and that they shouldn't waste their time and money. And the majority of them listen..

I'm not talking about people's interests.. I don't feel they play a valid role (if any) in the stupidity of Society as a whole..

And I'm not saying every single person falls into this category but there are more that do then you may think.. ;)
 


#18
I mean no offence to anyone.. :) But I'm stepping out of this discussion.. You've all read into the "dumb" comment way too much and the conversation is taking a complete left turn as a result.. So I'm out.. ;)
 


#19
Older machines might need upgrades

I instaled Windows 7 on an older Dell Desktop. It installed okay and ran fine. However my graphics card was not powerful enough to do certain things, such as screen savers and playing most games. I was faced with the option of upgrading my graphics card or going back to Windows XP. I'm not the user of this computer and thus decided it was probably more advisable just to go back to XP.

I do have it on two other computers which are more recent and in general have no problem at all, except for some driver and printer problems which I'm working my way through.
 


Ed Dixon

Senior Member
#20
There is a difference between intelligence and knowledge. What most are saying here is that many consumers lack knowledge when it comes to the finer points of OS comparisons. And while intelligence can enter into the equation, it’s more of a knowledge thing.

Those consumers will rely on a combination of advertisement hype, salesmen, recommendations of TV IT types, and friends. Many will just guess.

Like a car, many wont really know what they have bought until they have driven it a week or two.

Ed
 


This website is not affiliated, owned, or endorsed by Microsoft Corporation. It is a member of the Microsoft Partner Program.
Top