Setting up Drive Partitions for Installing Windows 10

Discussion in 'Windows 10 Help and Support' started by AttilaMagyar, Sep 7, 2016.

  1. AttilaMagyar

    AttilaMagyar Well-Known Member

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    Initial OS Windows XP. 250Gb HDD, 1 Partition C:. 4/2014 upgrade to Windows 7 Home Premium. Still using single partition 250Gb C:. A year ago experienced various hangups and performance issues. Ran SeaTools by Seagate. Had HDD failures on long tests. Installed Samsung SSD 850 EVO 250Gb using USB cable. Tried to clone HDD C: drive to SSD C: Partition. Failed, so I had to do a clean Win 7 install. Went to Win 7 Forum on how to partition SSD for a system drive C: (70Gb) and user drive J: (163Gb). Refer to Win 7 Forum Tutorial 2674 to do this. Copied Pgm Files Folder from C: to J: Reinstalled Office. Began Cleaning up C partition to have only system information in C: partition. With the deadline for upgrading to Windows 10 approaching wanted to get the C: partition cleaned up. Did not happen as I had to upgrade to Win 10 Home on 7/2016. Have since installed Win Anniversary upgrade so I am at version 1607 OS Build 14393.105.
    Question: What Folders and files belong on the System C: partition and then everything else should be in the non-system J: partition? If I copy the directory for the C: partition and post it in a file on this site can someone tell me if what is on there is correct or not?
    AttilaMagyar
     
  2. Neemobeer

    Neemobeer Windows Forum Team
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    Windows really wants most everything on the C drive that is there when you first install Windows. Programs and data can be installed on any drive. you can do some tricks with mklink where you have all the data in a different drive and yet Windows will think it is still on the C drive. as an example if you wanted to move your Documents,Picutres,Music and VIdeo folder to the J drive and have Windows still think its C:\Users\<username>\Folder you can do the following
    Create a folder on the J drive I'll call it myData for the example. Now move (do not copy) over say your C:\Users\<username>\Videos folder into J:\myData\Videos
    Now you can create a directory junction from an elevated command prompt mklink /J C:\Users\<username>\Videos J:\myData\Videos

    Now if you go to C:\Users\<username>\Videos it will still appear to be on the C drive but really it points to J:\myData\Videos
     
  3. BIGBEARJEDI

    BIGBEARJEDI Honorable Member
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    Hi there,

    Here's a link to an article that shows the minimal W10 folder configuration on a W10 bootable usb stick:
    How To Create Bootable Windows 10 ISO From Files/Folders

    That being said, we could use a little more information about the computer you are using here on W10. Is this a desktop PC or a laptop? Is it an OEM computer (Dell, HP, Acer, Toshiba, etc.)? Or is it a self-built PC or custom-built PC you built yourself from parts or paid a professional Tech to build for you? If it's an OEM computer, please provide us with Make/Model. If it's a self-built or custom-built PC, please provide Make/Model of your Motherboard, RAM memory sticks, GPU card, CPU chip, and PSU Make/Model/Wattage.
    If you don't have this information handy, get as much as you can and you can download the free SPECCY diagnostic program from piriform.com. Download SPECCY and run it and post the result output text file back here for our further analysis.

    Additionally, it's very important to know the exact date of manufacture of that XP computer you have. There are date limitations on how old the computer hardware can be in order so that it can run W10. Experimentally, several of us here on Windows Forum have determined that the oldest computer that can run W10 was made in 2006. That's 10 years ago. I personally have been testing W10 as an Insider Tester for Microsoft for over 2 years. During that time, I've tested XP-era machines that were built going back to 2002. None of these work. We do have 1 or 2 guys here that claim to have gotten an XP-era computer built in 2004 to work on W10; but it's unsubstantiated since he was not able to provide full specs on the machine nor it's BIOS build date. I've personally never seen one running W10 built prior to 2006, period. There are several ways to determine the build date; the BIOS is a good one, but is not always applicable as if you bought your computer used, a repair Tech may have updated it to several years newer, thus that build date in invalid. On OEM computers as I asked about above, they often have a Factory Sticker on the top, rear, or bottom of the tower case if a desktop PC, on the bottom of the laptop if a laptop and very rarely inside the battery compartment on the bottom of the laptop. This is much more reliable and the major computer makers such as Dell, HP, Acer, Gateway, Toshiba all use this; but if you got this computer used, or it was gifted to you, those stickers are often missing or torn off, or the numbers worn off from age and use. Again, that's why we asked for full specs on your computer.

    I'm betting that if you did your own XP upgrade, you neglected to run the Microsoft W10 COMPATIBILITY TEST, which tests for outdated hardware, apps, and drivers that do not work correctly in the W10 environment.:ohno: If you skipped this step, then you're not doing it right. Not checking this is like trying to get a computer like a 386 machine built back in the 80s to run W10; will never happen as those computers didn't meet the minimum specs required by W10 posted on the Microsoft website as well as the W10 install program.:down:

    Here's the link for the instructions on how to use the W10 COMPATIBILITY TEST:
    Get Windows 10 app - Check Compatibility Report for Windows 10


    The fact that you got the AU update to install means that the hardware is probably pretty close to the cutoff date, otherwise it's highly unlikely that the AU would install at all.

    Post back your information, and we can advise you further. But, this is my best guess at this point.

    Best of luck to you,:encouragement:
    <<<BIGBEARJEDI>>>
     
  4. AttilaMagyar

    AttilaMagyar Well-Known Member

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    I just ran speccy and will upload the text file. Then I will go follow your posts and try to answer your other questions.
    AttilaMagyar
     

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  5. AttilaMagyar

    AttilaMagyar Well-Known Member

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    more files from speccy.
    AttilaMagyar
     

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  6. AttilaMagyar

    AttilaMagyar Well-Known Member

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    I think I screwed up back when I replaced my HDD with the SSD and set up the C and J partitions. I did a copy, not move, of folders like Program files and Users, Documents, etc. over to J: and now I have folders of the same name on the C: partition and the J: partition. Any new programs I try to install in the Program Files Folder on J if the install wizard gives me that option. Can I do as you suggest above and move, for example, my Program Files Folder to my J: Program Files Folder and set up the directory junction for any of the folders that I move to the J: partition?
    I want to keep all of the Windows 10 system files in the CV: partition. Should I follow BIGBEARJED's post to find out which files and folders are the ones that I should leave on the C: partition?
    Thanks to both of you.
    AttilaMagyar
     
  7. AttilaMagyar

    AttilaMagyar Well-Known Member

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    BIGBEARJED, Here is the rest of the information you requested I provide.The PC is a tower Lenovo ThinkCentre A51 Model 8122 55U. It was purchased new in December of 2005. I remember it was built and shipped at the beginning of December, 2005 as they had trouble procuring the Graphics card I had ordered and substituted a more expensive card(ATI Radeon X600 Pro 128MB). I found out that card does not have Windows 10 driver support so I gave up trying to make it work and removed the graphics card and am using the graphics adapter on the motherboard. I added RAM, replaced the HDD with the SSD a year ago and also have a 250Gb Maxtor HDD USB connected that I want to use for backup once I get this PC cleaned up. The PS is 310 watts. I remember updating the BIOS many years ago. It has been a good PC with all of the physical options I need, like 6 USB ports, 2 optical drives and a diskette drive. Connected to the internet using an Actiontech DSL Modem and Router. I have been very remiss in doing timely backups and once I get everything resolved I want to avail myself of this forums expertise in setting up a good backup and recovery plan.
    I will now follow the 2 links you provided to see what the minimum Windows 10 folder configuration should be as well as running the W10 Compatibility test. I remember doing that when I went from XP to Windows 7 but did not do it for Windows 10.
    AttilaMagyar
     
  8. AttilaMagyar

    AttilaMagyar Well-Known Member

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  9. AttilaMagyar

    AttilaMagyar Well-Known Member

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    When I went to run The Win10 Compatibility App the instructions say, "Click/tap on the Get Windows 10 app icon on the taskbar notification area".
    Once I installed Win 10 that icon is gone. Any ideas?
    Attilamagyar
     
  10. AttilaMagyar

    AttilaMagyar Well-Known Member

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  11. AttilaMagyar

    AttilaMagyar Well-Known Member

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    I went to the link How to Create a Bootable Windows10 ISO from Files/Folders and I can't get past the first step, see below.
    "Step 1: If all the installation files are in a folder on your PC, you can skip to the next step". I have uploaded 3 files using snipping tool to show the directory contents of my C partition. Where are the installation files? The only place they would be are on my PC because they were downloaded from MS and I don't have them on a stick or DVD. I went down this directory hoping to find something related to installation but can find nothing. Thanks.
    AttilaMagyar
    9-12-2016. This is for Neemobeer. If you had to choose what files and Folders stayed on the C (System) partition and which files and folders you would move to my J (Non-System) partition which ones would they be. Please refer to the 3 screenshots that I attached to this thread on 9/09/2016 named C Partition1.PNG, C Partition2.PNG and C Partiton3.PNG. Thanks.
    AttilaMagyar
     

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    #11 AttilaMagyar, Sep 9, 2016
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2016
  12. AttilaMagyar

    AttilaMagyar Well-Known Member

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    Neemopbeer, please refer to this edited post on this thread.
    AttilaMagyar
     
  13. Neemobeer

    Neemobeer Windows Forum Team
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    The random named folders are probably windows updates and you should be able to delete them. You can move pretty much anything except the root of your user folder and Windows if you use the mklink command.
     
  14. BIGBEARJEDI

    BIGBEARJEDI Honorable Member
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    >>>No, you weren't supposed to run any app on that link; I gave it to you in order to directly answer you question on what files/folders are created on a normal W10 installation on the C: bootdrive. That's what you were asking. The link shows the smallest possible configuration of files/folders on a USB drive; which I now understand will now fit on a 4GB USB stick. This configuration has fewer files than a hard drive used as the C: bootdrive. If you deleted all files from your C: drive root directory other than these files it may or may not still boot your computer. :nerves:There are other OEM files and folders built specifically for your Lenovo PC and inserted onto the C: drive folder structure. If you really wanted to see what files/folder should be on that C: drive from the factory, you're going to need to use the factory Recovery Discs that came with your PC. If you never got any, there may be a utility to make them. But on an 11 year old computer, it's not guaranteed to be there. You can call Lenovo to see if you can buy the factory Recovery Discs which will cost you $29-$99 US; but it's doubtful they have anything that old as Lenovo's were still being made in the US back then (they are now in China).
    I would back everything up as far as personal data from that SSD (a full Image Backup such as Macrium or Acronis would be best) and then apply the factory Recovery Discs to that SSD (which will erase everything from that disk including W10). It would put back everything from the XP load from when your PC was new. You could then Clean Install your W10 from MCT tool created media, and take a snapshot with W10 Snipping Tool or your camera-phone and see what folders/files are there. If you created an image backup, you could then restore your C: drive from the Image backup and overwrite that TEST W10 install, and delete all the folders from your snapshot that are not on the restored image folder structure.
    Of course, that's a lot of work but you could also use a spare hard drive or buy a low-cost mechanical drive for this test on ebay such as a 120GB or 160GB drive; they run about $30 US, and use that drive for the factory rebuild-test W10 Clean Install. You could avoid having to do the image backup/restore this way, but it would be a good idea for you to do this with your current install in any event in case your current setup gets attacked by a nasty virus or the SSD fails one day.<<<

    BBJ
     
  15. BIGBEARJEDI

    BIGBEARJEDI Honorable Member
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    >>>Hi; Great job getting this information on your System specs back to me. The bad news I have for you is that I believe your PC is too old to run W10.:( We have no confirmed installs on any machines that are as old as your PC. There are certainly no W10 drivers for that machine on the Lenovo website; and that's one indication of incompatibility. The oldest PC we've been able to get W10 to run on properly is an XP-era machine built in 2006 that has the "Vista-ready" sticker on it. That was built maybe 10 months before Vista came out. I've personally attempted to install W10 on machines going back to 2002 (14 years old) and I have several machines in the 2002-2005 era; none of them worked!
    Looking at the Lenovo website for W10 drivers; they have partial support for both 32-bit (your PC) and 64-bit machines of your Model. There are BIOS updates for both including yours (32-bit). However, there are no Chipset updates, nor network drivers, nor audio, nor several other categories. That means you could attempt a BIOS update on your Motherboard (VERY HIGH RISK!!!),:hide: and without W10 chipset drivers and network drivers written by Lenovo for your PC, it's unlikely to ever run correctly.
    Here's the Link to the Lenovo site for driver download for W10: Desktops-and-all-in-ones :: ThinkCentre-A-Series-desktops :: ThinkCentre-A51 - Lenovo Support (US)
    NOTE: If you decide to attempt the BIOS update and have never done it before yourself, I urge you NOT TO DO IT, as it's very likely to Bork your Motherboard! 90% of my Customers and Students who attempt a first-time BIOS update fail and Bork the Motheboard.:ohno: In fact, your Motherboard is so old, you may not even find a replacement board in the online channel such as ebay, Amazon, etc. Rather, I would take it your local repair shop and pay a licensed Tech to do this for you.
    With all that being said, I have serious doubts that this computer will run properly on W10. Of course, "properly" is a different definition for different people. If all you do is check your E-mail, facebook, and edit some photos on the computer and do some occasional google searches, that computer may still work for your with W10; assuming it connects to the Internet. If it doesn't, I would junk it and buy a new machine or at least one built in 2006 or later as mentioned. That's up to you. Lastly, that Motherboard probably only has months or maybe another year or two before it completely quits on you due to Age.:wound: Computers built in that era were made to last about 10 years; new computers today with the exception of Dell are only made to last 3-5 years. You've definitely gotten your money's worth from that old Lenovo. I would consider retiring it before it goes legs up on you. As you attempt to add various programs and apps to that W10 build, the more likely it will be that things won't work correctly, you'll start experiencing hang/freezes, BSODs and Black Screens, etc. The more stuff you do to try and make W10 work on it, the more likely it is to fail completely.:waah: Again, sorry to be the bearer of bad news.:headache:<<<
    BBJ
     
  16. AttilaMagyar

    AttilaMagyar Well-Known Member

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    My expertise on Windows is limited so when you say random named folders are probably windows updates, I can't tell which ones are random and which ones really belong. Therefore, I am reluctant to delete anything. For example I am attaching a file called, 'Capture C Partition1.PNG that is the first page of the directory of the C partition. This was one of 3 pages I posted to BBJ. Going down this list, which files/folders can be deleted? or Moved to the J partition? Am I doing the file captures and uploads correctly for this Forum?
    The reason I went to partitioning my SSD when I installed it to replace my bad HDD that was not partitioned was I had read somewhere by separating system files/folders from user/data files and folders performance would improve along with making changes to the OS would be easier as it would not cause me to have to reload my programs and data if I changed the version of the OS. Backup and restore was supposed to be easier if I partitioned the drive. I may be off base here, and by partitioning I may have caused myself more problems and added complexity to a fairly basic system.
    I am open to your looking at my system from an overall standpoint and make recommendations as to which direction I should go.
    Now that I have retired I only use this system for volunter work, emails, MS Word, MS Excel, Quicken, Taxaide, pdfs, pictures, etc.
    In answer to BBJ's concern about this PC not being capable, going to Widows 10 and then Windows 10 Anniversary (that happened all by itself) has caused only 2 issues that I know of. First was the non driver support for my old graphics card, solved by using the graphics on the motherboard, and the failure of my Internet Security/AV program, VIPRE, to run under the Anniversary addition. ThreartTrack Security is working on that problem with a fix targeted for October??? My security/AV is being provided by Windows Defender that somehow took over when Anniversary installed. VIPRE support assured me that this should be OK for now.Any help you can provide would be appreciated. Thanks.
    AttilaMagyar
     

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  17. Neemobeer

    Neemobeer Windows Forum Team
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    The folders in the root of C:\ that are just random letters and numbers like 66723fa2323b232 as an example
     
    AttilaMagyar likes this.
  18. Neemobeer

    Neemobeer Windows Forum Team
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    It's hard to say with certainly which folders you can simply move. The reason being is if a program is using the registry to determine where it is installed moving the folder will potentially break the installation. Anything the is purely data (Documents, videos, music, pictures) can be moved without issue generally, unless the program you use needs to know where that data is in which case to need to change the settings of a given application to point to the new location.
     
  19. BIGBEARJEDI

    BIGBEARJEDI Honorable Member
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    Based on how you are planning on using this system, I would backup all your library folders to external media, wipe that drive clean, and start over. Using the partitioning is a good idea, but yes, it takes more work to troubleshoot it than 1 single large partition. It does eliminate the single point of failure issue, and the performance issue is negligible in my opinion. Best practice in IT for years has been to remove the data partition off to a 2nd physical drive, either internal or external usb. You may not be aware of this.o_O Several of us here do that and have been doing it for years. Using the partitioning scheme on a bootdrive (C: drive) is just asking for trouble.:noway: Using a program such as mklink which neemo suggests is like handing a loaded .45 pistol to a 3 year-old and telling him to have at it!!:shocked: We tried doing stuff like this with various windows config rollouts to our national sales force and it exploded in our faces; the maintenance on a system like that is horrendous.:headache: And when, not if your new hard drive fails in a few years, will you remember the 30 directories you re-mapped on that setup 5 years from now? I doubt it.

    It's your computer, but I too am recently retired, but you have to draw a line at making your system overly complicated to maintain. If you are going to pay someone to fix your computer for you, who cares right?:D That's the Tech's problem you are paying to deal with not yours. However, if you are maintaining it yourself for hobby or just to save money (welcome to Fixed-income!); this is seriously the wrong direction to go in as you suspected in your above post.:rolleyes: You need to make your computer EASIER to maintain and keep running, not HARDER. :noise:

    That's my 2 cents.

    Cheers!:encouragement:
    BBJ
     
  20. AttilaMagyar

    AttilaMagyar Well-Known Member

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    BBJ, I have been off line due to fighting serious illness but as I start to recover I want to continue cleaning up my PC. I maintain my own stuff. I am not a guru by no means and keeping this PC running is important from a budget standpoint, my serious health issues/expenses not withstanding.
    I want to follow your recommendations in your current post to use two physical drives. I will give up on the partitioning idea. This is where I stand at present. My Physical drive configuration is as follows.Internal Samsung SSD 850 EVO 250GB, external Maxtor USB connected HDD 200GB, various sizes of USB sticks for selective backup.
    I want to use the SSD as my C: boot drive. I will use the Maxtor HDD as my data drive. To do this I cleaned off the HDD and will move my data folders and files over to it Since I used the Windows offer to do the Win 10 upgrade I don't have an installation DVD. I followed one of the forum blogs to create a Windows 10 ISO DVD so I can do a clean install of Windows 10 on my SSD. Once Windows 10 is installed and updated to the latest level I will install my application programs on the SSD. When that is done I want to set up a backup procedure that is acceptable using your expertise to do so. Does this sound unreasonable to you? Are there various links that I am not considering in setting things up this way?
    RogerAttila
     

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