Windows 10 Which Anti Virus?

H

hawkeye62

Extraordinary Member
Joined
Oct 2, 2011
I am running Windows 10 and Internet Explorer. I have depended on Windows Defender to protect me from virus , malware, Trojans, etc. But, my system became infected with safesear.ch. Windows defender did not detect this virus. I used Malware Bytes to remove it.

So, what anti virus would you folks recommend to use along with, or instead of, Windows Defender?

Thanks for any advice.

Regards, Jim
 
have you checked this post, hawkeye62? https://windowsforum.com/posts/678722/

typically, it's not so much the exploits as it is the operator. his/her actions usually govern the infection rate … no matter how well fortified his arsenal may be. fact remains … safesear.ch is a "pup" … and usually is acquired when a person downloads other "legitimate" software. just last week malwarebytes-anti-rootkit caught a raid-trojan in my temp folder which neither avg nor windows-defender nor malwarebytes-anti-malware caught.

safe practices means safe computing means your internet alliances will also be happy/secure.

personally, i'd suggest a five-step approach.
  1. don't let anyone else use your computer or connection.
  2. soon as you boot up, update the reference files for your arsenal and scan.
  3. before you download anything global … scan your computer for anything disturbing.
  4. create/remove system restore-points.
  5. keep abreast of trends.
i been using avg for many years, hawkeye62 … my arsenal also contains several malwarebyte itinerants. i utilize abp ad-blocker in my browsers (firefox/chrome) and make certain i keep low profile on the browser addons. hijackthis and spywareblaster also complement my artillery. i sport a password-manager … and windows-defender sleeps until it's awakened.

elaborating the above steps:

1.) the person may be your spouse or family or friend … doesn't matter. unless you are an expert on windows-os … don't let them near your computer. if you are advanced enough, create user-account for that person … that account may/mayn't offer access to outside world (your decision) … that account should not have admin-priv … that account should not be able to install software or copy files to/from internet.

2.) cars need oil-changes … air-cons need refrigerant (r410) boosters … floors need sweeping … laundry needs to be washed. same goes for one's security arsenal … do it! update those reference files … every time you power up your computer.

there will be time when microsoft is updating their crap … give it ample space and time to finish it's task. if you do not have a 1tbps speed … go sweep your garage while microsoft finishes.

3.) the pipeline … between your comp/periphs and the outside world … that's where most of the risk occurs. from email-provider to social-groups to media-streaming to your contacts … entry-points exist within every axis. trust is never reliable and should never be guaranteed.

the picture your son attached to his email … is it clean? a trusted website such as microsoft.com or classicshell.net … are you certain the files you are downloading are safe? the news-website you are patron of during late evening hours … is something risky going on behind the browser shell? thanks to fellow member kemical and extraordinaire for the alert.

before you download anything global … scan your computer and it's peripherals for anything disturbing. copy the url of the file you wish to download … go to virus-total and get their seal of approval. take screen-cap of the little window for d/l file … make sure it's representative of it's logical point of entry. (i.e. AVG_Protection_Free_1606.exe is from http://files-download.avg.com and not from hackers_unlimited.com). if you are confident of the source, size, "ext" of the file … proceed to d/l file. once on your drive, throw your security-arsenal at the file. take screen-cap of windows "programs-installed" interface (appwiz.cpl) … sorted by most recently installed.

if your intent is to install software; when installing … concentrate on the interface … choose "custom-install" … never install any third-party bs or toolbars or anything. why not? search google for what happens when web-browser toolbars are installed. during installation process, click "next" only if you're comfortable. if, at any time, a "back" button appears … click on that back-button … is the "back-screen" same screen as before you proceeded? personally, i take screen-cap every time i hit "next" or "back" in the installation interface.

continuing forward … you've had virus-total scan your url … you have scanned your computer/periphs with your arsenal … you created a restore-point … and your software has successfully installed. now, take another screen-cap of appwiz.cpl (sorted most recent) … and scan your computer/periphs again. perform "rootkit" scan as well as "ransomware" scan … there are free products on the market that can assist … i been using malwarebytes.

oh! btw … there was recent scare on the internet few weeks ago … with regard to using malwarebytes products, make sure the malwarebytes files you d/l are a bonafide/legitimate files (use virus-total) … do your research. look back at my previous post regarding malwarebytes … also, pls read posts of other members here on windowsforum for their opinions and invaluable experiences as well.

4.) windows "restore" points … prior to installing/removing software … create a system restore-point. also, of the previous 10+ restore-points currently existing, delete the oldest restore-point. by removing previous points in this manner, you lessen the burden on your os as well as storage-accrued.

5.) most likely, you are a steward of the global community … whether you like it or not. keep abreast of security exploits and notifications of policy-changes. doing so will increase your own self-awareness.

before closing this post, hawkeye62 … i wish to interject a couple thoughts:
  • windowsforum member and fellow netizen neemobeer mentions software that goes by the name of "process-explorer" … this program really offers some good analysis and is quite robust.
  • also … stop using simple passwords and duplicate names/passwords … get yourself a password-manager and be "hip" … your family 'n friends will love you for it.
ref:
- windowsforum.com/posts/678722/
- windowsforum.com/threads/care-needed-with-classic-shell.222629/#post-677823
- windowsforum.com/posts/681506/
- technet.microsoft.com/en-us/sysinternals/processexplorer.aspx
 
Windows Defender is ok for free AV, but it still doesn't have very good detection. I personally recommend Webroot Virus Protection For All Your Devices | Webroot it's a signature less AV protection that relies on Cloud data and behavior. Extremely high detection rate 100% from tests, cheap $29 and extremely lite on your system 8MBs of RAM usage.
 
Thanks for the advice guys. This virus is the second I have had in about 20 years. The first was that FedEx virus I got via Email and I am sure this one came via a download. I am very careful about downloads and Email, but this one slipped through.

Is Webroot compatible with Windows Defender? Malware Bytes seems to be compatible with Defender. I had used it for many years with earlier versions of Windows, but quit using it when I went to Windows 10.

Best regards, Jim
 
I've been using Kasperky Internet Security for years now. And I feel safer with than freeware AVs, but to be honest that's just piece of mind versus reality.
However, over the years it has become bloated with extra features and a larger footprint. And that's mostly to compete with other AV manufacturers so I get that. But with all those extras it does have a noticeable slow down on my computer. It doesn't make it crawl or anything like that. For example over the summer I did a clean install of Windows 10 to get the Anniversary Update. Well I rocked Windows Defender for a few months afterwards and I couldn't even tell it was running in the background or when it did a scan. But once I reinstalled KIS I could noticed the speed difference right after restarting my computer and opening Firefox or Chrome. Again not enough to make me uninstall it but it's there.

With all that said though, KIS always scores when it comes to zero days and general virus scanning. And I really like the firewall features and customization. So based on just keeping you protected I always recommend KIS. You can disable a lot of the extra features after the installation too.

I have been curious about trying BitDefender because it always scores well for zero day and general virus scanning.

It's always hard making these decisions based off other recommendations with out actually seeing an AV in action. So I'd recommend checking out this YouTube channel, The PC Security Channel The PC Security Channel This guy, Leo, tests a lot of the popular AVs, Kaspersky, AVG, BitDefender etc. And the malware scanners like Hitman Pro, MalwareBytes etc. The videos are long form because he wants you to see the scans, which I actually enjoy.

Hope this helps. Let us know what you decide on. Or if you more questions after checking something out let us know too. I'm curious as to what you'll pick as I said I'm considering a move to something else.
 
Perhaps but Kasperksy has had pretty good zero day protection...so far lol.
 
Well, right now I am leaning toward Webroot based on it's light footprint. Or maybe just keep using WD and add Malware Bytes. Does Webroot detect the same kind of malware that Malware Bytes does? I guess malware is sort of a generic term for all virus, Trojans, hijackers, etc? But, it does seem that Malware Bytes detects stuff that anti virus programs don't. I used Esset for some years and Malware Bytes always picked up some PUP stuff.

Best regards, Jim
 
I used to use ESET back in the Win 2000 days. It was great back then. But I haven't even looked into it at all lately, I probably should.

I've never used a Webroot product before. If I remember correctly did they have freeware AV or Malware protection back in the day?
Have you checked out any independent reviews of it? Like non PC Mag or CNET type reviews. I find those sites many times can't be trusted because they aren't being critical just reviewing software given to them for free.
Right malware is a catch all term for everything.

Are there any others you're interested in?
 
Maybe Bit Defender. But, I am beginning to think that while most anti virus programs probably detect virus, they probably do not focus on Trojans, adware, nagware, worms, hijackers, etc. as much as something like Malwarebytes. So, I will most likely go with a conventional anti virus and a anti malware program.

Regards, Jim
 
There's are some AV programs that only have a virus scanning engine in them that's it. However the ones like Kaspersky and BitDefender also scan for malware, detect for computer behavior that lead to malware infections, protect your browser from going to infected links etc.

I think what you're referring to here is how most "tech people" usually have their main AV program (Kaspersky or BitDefender) as well as a secondary program to scan with (Hitman Pro, MalwareBytes etc.)
 
Let's be clear on definitions all bad programs are malware. Viruses and spyware are the main two sub categories of malware. Viruses focus on propagation and spyware focuses is hiding. There are many sub types of these types. Webroot is entirely heuristic and behavior based while many other anti-malware applications rely on signatures heavily. A signature is basically looking for a specific assembly regular expression to determine if an application is malicious. All that is required to defeat a signature is to encode the malware to change the signature such that it is not in the AV signature database, So if an AV product relies on signatures it is extremely ineffective.
 
An interesting discussion for sure. Everyone has their own opinions on what works and what doesn't for their particular computer environment. However, as someone who makes their living repairing computers from virus infections and keeping customer computer running, I have found that the 2 best AV's are still Norton, and the newer Avast. I have recently switched all my customers over to Avast since it is comparable protection to Norton, but with a smaller footprint and a much lower annual cost. Norton Security Deluxe (used to be Internet Security) just went up to $90 a year for 3 PCs. About $30 year. Avast free is free forever, but it's about 97% effective at catching the bad stuff. Their paid version is a bit better around 99% effective. Those percentages are based on my personal experience in my own customer base. I have over 200 computers now on Avast; the majority of those are using the free version. I have about 35 power users or business customers who want and are willing to pay for solid virus/malware protection as they have paid me or another Tech to do expensive repairs on their older computers and so are willing to pay for protection to do this due to bad experience, data loss, etc. Out of the 200+ customers, I only have a handful that use Norton, or McAfee or CA or something else that came with their computer or that their work or University recommends using. Maybe 5%.

Like I said, Avast has a higher protection rate; what I call the return rate or how many of my 200 customers still get infected using Avast free or paid versions. It's between 1%-3%! Which is the best out there I've found. Customers using the big brands such as Norton, McAfee, Kaspersky, etc. it's much higher like 5%-20% return rate! Which is completely unacceptable. Why pay $80 per year for an AV product that still lets viruses into your computer and scrambles them?

Again, you need to know that if you use Norton, Avast, McAfee or one of these AV products, WD (Windows Defender) must be turned off since your computer can only run 1 AV program at a time. You cannot use 2 simultaneously! :noway:

Additionally, I believe in using what we call "backstop" security programs to keep out specific types of nasty viruses that traditional AV products cannot deal with. These are things like Day-Zero attacks, Ransomware spyware viruses, Rootkit viruses, and worm-email viruses. So I use 3 backstop programs from TrendMicro (another decades-old AV company) and Malwarebytes already mentioned and the absolute king of antispyware virus protection. I therefore have 1 primary AV (Norton or Avast) and 4 other backstop programs running. A formula I developed on my own the last 4 years that provides me and my customers the fewest infection numbers available. It's not perfect, as neither are any of the programs mentioned so far in this thread.

pnamajck has the right idea about a lot of virus attacks are due to human error and the cybercriminals out there have devised many ways to lure unsuspecting folks who pay lots of money for AV protection but forget to learn about the new threats that come out on a regular basis. Lack of knowledge and sloppy work habits cause more virus infections than most people realize.

I do want to mention that we have some of our volunteers who swear by other products such as Webroot and ESET Nod32; however, in the location I live in, I have multiple failures of those products to protect my customer's computers from being infected by nasty viruses of all categories mentioned above. I therefore remove them when I see them and cannot recommend using them. That doesn't mean they won't work for you. They are reputable products and have been well tested.;) However, these products don't rate that high on independent testing; so another strike against them. Take a look at the products that are highest rated on this AV report here: AV-TEST – The Independent IT-Security Institute
This is the Gold Standard of independent AV testing outside the US; and there are also a couple of independent AV testing places in the US as well. It's a good idea to look at all of them before making your buy decision. Take a look at the Virus Bulleting testing report here: Virus Bulletin :: Home

Finally, it's a good idea to ask your own Computer Guy what HE uses on his own personal computers for virus protection. Most Computer Guy's are fanatical about their own computers and will go to great lengths to protect their own stuff and have even been known to pay for that protection <grin>. And too, check with your local Computer Club and see what those folks recommend. Bottom line here is don't make your decision in a vacuum without doing your homework; just like buying a home or a car, you should use the same rubric in buying AV protection. Your computer investment is not as large as a home investment dollar-wise but certainly will fee like it if you catch a virus that locks up all your stuff for 20 years or deletes every file on every computer in your home network. :eek: :waah:

My 2 cents,:)
<<<BIGBEARJEDI>>>
Hopefully, this will give you some more insight.
 
Wow my experience with Avast pay version was horrible. I would never use or recommend them anymore.
They kept charging my card for 2 years after I told them not to renew my subscription. And what tips it off I never signed up for automatic renewal, I never do for items like software because you never know if the next version is going to be good or not, just how programs work. I had to send screenshots, email responses, phone calls, and ever rep would acknowledge that yeah you opted out of auto renewal on out website, but one rep wanted to remote into my computer because he said I probably have a virus, wwwwhat haha!

And haven't touched a Norton product since the late 90s and early 00s. Back then their consumer products were very bad and never completely uninstalled. Now their Symantec line was excellent and I was lucky to get a copy back when I was in school for IT. And would probably use it today, great protection, feature rich, and small footprint.

But I think you have a good point in that it comes down to personal preference as well. A lot of people don't mind the AVG Free pop up reminders, minimal features, "it works and that's all I need."

And the other point of how a person uses their computer. Perfect example, a family member got a brand new laptop, they wanted me to "do my thing" to it, i.e. clean out bloatware, install security software, browser security privacy add ons, disable "open doors" in services, the hole nine, like what any of us would do. Then like a month later she says it's acting weird and slow. OMG, it had the most spyware I've ever seen, several toolbar add-ons, so many pop ups I felt like punting it, viruses, even old school ones, the AV was disabled before booting up, she was trying to download movies because one of her roommates showed her how, lol.

So perhaps the middle ground in all this is knowing a computer person to help you or you be that computer person, because the threats just evolve and change. I mean who would have thought 10 years ago a Skynet type of highjacking of internet connected devices in your home would be used to take down major sites on the East Coast, lol.

Galaxy S7 Edge
 
Neemobeer said:
One of many many articles on why signature based av is useless. I recently deployed next gen malware protection at work and it's already picked up many things that Symantec Endpoint protection never did. Endpoint specific malware renders signature detection useless
Click to expand...

Thanks for this link. I'll definitely read the study. I'm curious as to how they collected this data and how they came to their conclusions.

There's no doubt that the basic virus of the past, i.e. the Melissa or ILOVEYOU virus, wouldn't be such the big threat as they were in the past. However, I don't think signatures, as part of, an AV program will go away anytime soon. At least not until the computer systems we use become invulnerable to them. Could you imagine the consumer or business outrage if their AV/security software, whatever you prefer to call it, let a simple virus get in and do damage? Definitely though we have moved into a new age of computer threats, the Mirai botnet attack is proof of that. But I'll definitely check out that study.
 
Yeah when you have the same malware execute on two different systems and the signature is completely different how are you going to detect it?
 
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