Master Chief
New Member
- Joined
- Apr 15, 2009
Windows 7 Windows 7 to be shipped in Europe sans IE
- Thread starter Master Chief
- Start date
Microsoft makes a Boo Boo - No IE8 for European editions
Hi all
This seems to be a real case of "Non Technical management" making technical decisions. It looks like the EU commission has poked its fingers in the wrong place again.
(If I'd had a vote - we aren't members - Iceland - I'd have voted for the Swedish Pirate party !!).
W7 will be delivered in the EU (and unfortunately the EEA as well which includes my part of the world) WITHOUT IE8 and will be labelled the E edition.
The "Sales spiel" mentions that of course IE8 will be freely downloadable -- but the interesting question here is how do you actually download a browser if you haven't got one to start with.
Of course the same problem occurs if you want to activate by Internet -- I'm not wasting hours on the phone speaking to some wretched Indian call centre - sorry Indian guys - I know a lot of you are quite skilled and qualified in IT so no general slur intended - but if you've ever been through sheer telephone hell having to use one of those wretched off shored call centres you'll know what I mean.
Also you wont initially be able to use a webmail type of email package.
Nice one MS
Cheers
jimbo
Hi all
This seems to be a real case of "Non Technical management" making technical decisions. It looks like the EU commission has poked its fingers in the wrong place again.
(If I'd had a vote - we aren't members - Iceland - I'd have voted for the Swedish Pirate party !!).
W7 will be delivered in the EU (and unfortunately the EEA as well which includes my part of the world) WITHOUT IE8 and will be labelled the E edition.
The "Sales spiel" mentions that of course IE8 will be freely downloadable -- but the interesting question here is how do you actually download a browser if you haven't got one to start with.
Of course the same problem occurs if you want to activate by Internet -- I'm not wasting hours on the phone speaking to some wretched Indian call centre - sorry Indian guys - I know a lot of you are quite skilled and qualified in IT so no general slur intended - but if you've ever been through sheer telephone hell having to use one of those wretched off shored call centres you'll know what I mean.
Also you wont initially be able to use a webmail type of email package.
Nice one MS
Cheers
jimbo
I'm not aure what you mean by "Nice one MS". Trust me, it's not their fault. Blame the EU Commission.
.
I have yet to understand why they don't go after Apple? They bundle Safari, and they are far more anti-competitive than MS could ever dream of being.
.
What I mean is, you can't install MAC legally on any other hardware than Apple Hardware. How's that for anti-competitiveness?
.
Oh and if you try to produce and sell MAC Clones, Apple sues you into oblivion.
.
I have yet to understand why they don't go after Apple? They bundle Safari, and they are far more anti-competitive than MS could ever dream of being.
.
What I mean is, you can't install MAC legally on any other hardware than Apple Hardware. How's that for anti-competitiveness?
.
Oh and if you try to produce and sell MAC Clones, Apple sues you into oblivion.
I wanted to elborate on that last post.
The EU decided MS was too anti competative and that IE8 being bundled with Windows doesn't allow for other browsers to compete. Hmmm,,, seeing as they are all FREE ANYway, geez, the idiocy of people trully astounds and amazes me to no end.
So, I say again. Don't blame MS, Blame the all knowing and mighty intelligence of the idiots who find anti competitive practice among free crap.
The EU decided MS was too anti competative and that IE8 being bundled with Windows doesn't allow for other browsers to compete. Hmmm,,, seeing as they are all FREE ANYway, geez, the idiocy of people trully astounds and amazes me to no end.
So, I say again. Don't blame MS, Blame the all knowing and mighty intelligence of the idiots who find anti competitive practice among free crap.
A question does spring to mind what about windows updates ?
Normally you can only update via Internet Explorer . Will they have to make it possible to update using other web browsers ?
I think I will download a few browsers so that I can be ready for that .
Normally you can only update via Internet Explorer . Will they have to make it possible to update using other web browsers ?
I think I will download a few browsers so that I can be ready for that .
Master Chief
New Member
- Joined
- Apr 15, 2009
I thought you only update via IE in XP. In 7 you just use the Windows Update program. If you go to windowsupdate.com from another browser it tells you to use IE, and if you go to it using IE on Windows 7 it tells you to use the Start menu and launches the program automatically.
Correct, IE is no longer used for udates.
But do you know what is a part of windows updates?
IE8, so I say FU EU Commision.
Does not mean you have to use it exclusively, but at least you have a Browser to get another one.
Unless they are banning that from EU Win Updates. Then you are all F'ed.
What I will be interested in knowing. What browser will the OEM's be allowed to install on pre-built systems?
Will they be required by law to install all browsers, IE8, FF, Safari, Opera, Chrome, Mozila, etc.? Or all of the above minus IE8. How's that for anti-competitive.
WOW, Talk about bloat. Blame the idiots at the EU Commission, not MS or the OEM's for that one.
conspiracy theory - maybe this is there way of regulating the net?
,,, hahahaha
But do you know what is a part of windows updates?
IE8, so I say FU EU Commision.
Does not mean you have to use it exclusively, but at least you have a Browser to get another one.
Unless they are banning that from EU Win Updates. Then you are all F'ed.
What I will be interested in knowing. What browser will the OEM's be allowed to install on pre-built systems?
Will they be required by law to install all browsers, IE8, FF, Safari, Opera, Chrome, Mozila, etc.? Or all of the above minus IE8. How's that for anti-competitive.
WOW, Talk about bloat. Blame the idiots at the EU Commission, not MS or the OEM's for that one.
conspiracy theory - maybe this is there way of regulating the net?
,,, hahahaha 
PcBoyGeorge
Senior Member
- Joined
- May 20, 2009
What will it come with then. If it comes with Chrome then ill be buying that pc.
Also it says that europe will not get windows 7 with IE. So im assuming they will be with the others. Google Chrome one ftw.
Also it says that europe will not get windows 7 with IE. So im assuming they will be with the others. Google Chrome one ftw.
PcBoyGeorge
Senior Member
- Joined
- May 20, 2009
No fair we get all the versions shipping without IE in europe. Im going for chrome. Its the best browser ever!
Radenight
New Member
- Joined
- Nov 16, 2008
I have to say I'm starting to feel that way too.. I still like IE8 (I've always had a soft spot for IE) but Chrome is quickly becoming my 2nd favorite broswer.. Safari is definitely close behind..
"The "Sales spiel" mentions that of course IE8 will be freely downloadable -- but the interesting question here is how do you actually download a browser if you haven't got one to start with."
Ah! Thats the easy one in this thread. I have all my favourite programs already downloaded, including IE8, Chrome and Firefox, and currently saved on my second harddisk and DVD's.
Ah! Thats the easy one in this thread. I have all my favourite programs already downloaded, including IE8, Chrome and Firefox, and currently saved on my second harddisk and DVD's.
Hi there
Hi Dave -- you don't get off that lightly.
How about you are a Brand new user with no previous OS etc . How are you going to download your browser.
Even if you buy a machine with the OS already installed -- will it HAVE a browser already in it -- or can you specify when you buy your PC which browser will be installed.
Or to me the obvious get around would be to supply "Extras" in another folder on the Retail DVD which would include IE on it. Perfectly legal as the browser wouldn't actually be installed in the OS.
Then its up to the USER to decide whether to install or not -- gets round the whole POINTLESS court case which doubtless cost the long suffering EU taxpayer millions of Euros.
Cheers
jimbo
Hi Dave -- you don't get off that lightly.
How about you are a Brand new user with no previous OS etc . How are you going to download your browser.
Even if you buy a machine with the OS already installed -- will it HAVE a browser already in it -- or can you specify when you buy your PC which browser will be installed.
Or to me the obvious get around would be to supply "Extras" in another folder on the Retail DVD which would include IE on it. Perfectly legal as the browser wouldn't actually be installed in the OS.
Then its up to the USER to decide whether to install or not -- gets round the whole POINTLESS court case which doubtless cost the long suffering EU taxpayer millions of Euros.
Cheers
jimbo
LOL. I nearly surrendered on that one. Jimbo. But Microsoft did say, in the same policy announcement (not yet fully confirmed) quote
" according to VP and deputy general counsel Dave Heiner "we will offer it separately and on an easy-to-install basis to both computer manufacturers and users.
You will have to interpret that as you feel best. I would , 1. Tell the seller that it is no deal unless it has full internet caccess or, 2. Ask for the free software. It may even be already on the installation DVD.- not yet ascertained. The only EU ruling is that it must not be part of the installation. or
3. March en masse on the local EU rep and demand the free software -lol.
P.S. (Later)
Of course. We must not forget that the browsers are merely gui's to the internet. Before they became popular, we had to use prompts in Dos in order to achieve anything on the web. As the web was very small, this was not a big deal. It is unlikely that new users would be familiar with those old fashioned ways and, if they were new to computers, would probably not have an inkling as to how to start but, fwiw, you could download a browser, without a browser installed. Take an example of obtaining the latest Firefox:
here's how to install Firefox without using a browser:
To start FTP, click on the Start menu, then "Run..." and enter:
ftp (or go sttraight to the Command prompt, run as Admistrator, and type ftp)
Then click "OK."
When the ftp> prompt appears, type:
open releases.mozilla.org
Then press Enter. You will be connected to the Mozilla Firefox FTP download site.
Note that you will need to press Enter after every command that follows.
When prompted for your username enter: anonymous As your password enter: your email address
When the ftp> prompt reappears enter these commands, one at a time, pressing enter after each one and waiting for a response from the server:
cd pub/mozilla.org/firefox/releases
cd latest-2.0
cd win32
Now, to see a list of languages and countries that Firefox is available for, type:
ls
If you live in the United States or you prefer your interface in U.S. English, your next command is:
cd en-US
If you prefer another language, cd to that directory instead.
Next, to find out the name of the current version of the Firefox installer, use one more "ls" command:
ls
This last "ls" command will show you the exact name of the installer for the current version of Firefox 2.0, among other files. You are looking for the filename that ends with .exe. AS OF THIS WRITING, it is:
Firefox Setup 2.0.0.20.exe
But you need to use the ls command to see what the current version is instead of relying on this.
Next, type the command:
binary
To make sure the file is moved as a program and not as a text file, which would ruin it.
Now we need to get it to go to your desktop.'
Fortunately, the desktop "lives" right inside your home folder, so we can use the lcd (Local Change Directory) command to go there:
lcd Desktop
Type:
get "Firefox Setup 2.0.0.20.exe" (If that is the setup program name you found with the ls command. )
(The quotation marks are important!)
The file will take a while to download. On a dialup modem a little longer. When and if the ftp prompt comes back without an error message, type:
quit
You should now finf the install on your desktop.
" according to VP and deputy general counsel Dave Heiner "we will offer it separately and on an easy-to-install basis to both computer manufacturers and users.
You will have to interpret that as you feel best. I would , 1. Tell the seller that it is no deal unless it has full internet caccess or, 2. Ask for the free software. It may even be already on the installation DVD.- not yet ascertained. The only EU ruling is that it must not be part of the installation. or
3. March en masse on the local EU rep and demand the free software -lol.
P.S. (Later)
Of course. We must not forget that the browsers are merely gui's to the internet. Before they became popular, we had to use prompts in Dos in order to achieve anything on the web. As the web was very small, this was not a big deal. It is unlikely that new users would be familiar with those old fashioned ways and, if they were new to computers, would probably not have an inkling as to how to start but, fwiw, you could download a browser, without a browser installed. Take an example of obtaining the latest Firefox:
here's how to install Firefox without using a browser:
To start FTP, click on the Start menu, then "Run..." and enter:
ftp (or go sttraight to the Command prompt, run as Admistrator, and type ftp)
Then click "OK."
When the ftp> prompt appears, type:
open releases.mozilla.org
Then press Enter. You will be connected to the Mozilla Firefox FTP download site.
Note that you will need to press Enter after every command that follows.
When prompted for your username enter: anonymous As your password enter: your email address
When the ftp> prompt reappears enter these commands, one at a time, pressing enter after each one and waiting for a response from the server:
cd pub/mozilla.org/firefox/releases
cd latest-2.0
cd win32
Now, to see a list of languages and countries that Firefox is available for, type:
ls
If you live in the United States or you prefer your interface in U.S. English, your next command is:
cd en-US
If you prefer another language, cd to that directory instead.
Next, to find out the name of the current version of the Firefox installer, use one more "ls" command:
ls
This last "ls" command will show you the exact name of the installer for the current version of Firefox 2.0, among other files. You are looking for the filename that ends with .exe. AS OF THIS WRITING, it is:
Firefox Setup 2.0.0.20.exe
But you need to use the ls command to see what the current version is instead of relying on this.
Next, type the command:
binary
To make sure the file is moved as a program and not as a text file, which would ruin it.
Now we need to get it to go to your desktop.'
Fortunately, the desktop "lives" right inside your home folder, so we can use the lcd (Local Change Directory) command to go there:
lcd Desktop
Type:
get "Firefox Setup 2.0.0.20.exe" (If that is the setup program name you found with the ls command. )
(The quotation marks are important!)
The file will take a while to download. On a dialup modem a little longer. When and if the ftp prompt comes back without an error message, type:
quit
You should now finf the install on your desktop.
- Joined
- Feb 5, 2009
- Location
- San Antonio, Tx
The makers of Opera and the EU want M$ to bundle other browsers into the install program then give users a choice. The reason they want this is because the average computer user only uses IE because they don't know they have a choice. They prefer to just do their e-mail, social networking, pictures and web browsing without paying attention to the workings of their computer. M$ should give them what they want. But no, they're the Big Dog and they do whatever the @#$% they want to. That is the #1 reason I hate MicroSUCKS.
The only reason I don't have a Mac is that Apple is even more stupid and stubborn than M$. I have never been able to afford a Mac. I refuse to buy an iMac. Any computer that I own will have a big box for the components. They could offer competitive prices for their hardware and still make a tidy profit because they would sell a lot more.
The only thing that M$ ever did that truly makes me happy is W7. They seem to have gotten the O/S right finally.
The only reason I don't have a Mac is that Apple is even more stupid and stubborn than M$. I have never been able to afford a Mac. I refuse to buy an iMac. Any computer that I own will have a big box for the components. They could offer competitive prices for their hardware and still make a tidy profit because they would sell a lot more.
The only thing that M$ ever did that truly makes me happy is W7. They seem to have gotten the O/S right finally.
Hi all
Why is there so much antagonosm to people who run successful businesses -- MS might not be to everyone's taste - nor is SHELL. TOTAL etc etc. but you'd be stuck without gas (petrol /diesel) wouldn't you.
I DEFY (without getting too much into the realm of Politics) anyone to tell me in what activity has a central government EVER provided a FAIR service to those who actually NEED it and have paid into the system to qualify for it in a decently economic efficient manner.
I've seen social benefit offices in loads of countries -- HUGE costs to the small nr of taxpayers who have to fund "gold plated" final Pension schemes for employees who wouldn't have a hope in hell of surviving one day in any sensibly run business dispensing YOUR and MY tax dollars to any amount of totally unjustworthy causes and individuals whilst genuine deserving people get ZILCH from the system.
I've paid a HUGE amount into the UK tax system -- even though I'm not from there - but if I tried to collect anything from the social security system -- because I'm nordic, white WASP looking and over 6 ft - I'd get laughed at all the way back to Heathrow Airport whilst others from certain parts of the world (not even having ANY connection with the UK) get housing and huge amounts of other benefits right from Day 1.
OK this is for the politicians of these countries to fix -- but why is there so much HATE against MS -- a hugely successful company providing 100,000's of jobs world wide with a passable product and having a foundation (Bill Gates Foundation) which probably provides MORE money to alleviate poverty etc than any other organisation on this planet.
Isn't it time we all got real and stopped the tirade aganst MS.
Sorry for a bit of a Rant here -- but I've been to most places on this planet -- not all of them nice and W7 WILL be a winner.
Cheers
jimbo
Why is there so much antagonosm to people who run successful businesses -- MS might not be to everyone's taste - nor is SHELL. TOTAL etc etc. but you'd be stuck without gas (petrol /diesel) wouldn't you.
I DEFY (without getting too much into the realm of Politics) anyone to tell me in what activity has a central government EVER provided a FAIR service to those who actually NEED it and have paid into the system to qualify for it in a decently economic efficient manner.
I've seen social benefit offices in loads of countries -- HUGE costs to the small nr of taxpayers who have to fund "gold plated" final Pension schemes for employees who wouldn't have a hope in hell of surviving one day in any sensibly run business dispensing YOUR and MY tax dollars to any amount of totally unjustworthy causes and individuals whilst genuine deserving people get ZILCH from the system.
I've paid a HUGE amount into the UK tax system -- even though I'm not from there - but if I tried to collect anything from the social security system -- because I'm nordic, white WASP looking and over 6 ft - I'd get laughed at all the way back to Heathrow Airport whilst others from certain parts of the world (not even having ANY connection with the UK) get housing and huge amounts of other benefits right from Day 1.
OK this is for the politicians of these countries to fix -- but why is there so much HATE against MS -- a hugely successful company providing 100,000's of jobs world wide with a passable product and having a foundation (Bill Gates Foundation) which probably provides MORE money to alleviate poverty etc than any other organisation on this planet.
Isn't it time we all got real and stopped the tirade aganst MS.
Sorry for a bit of a Rant here -- but I've been to most places on this planet -- not all of them nice and W7 WILL be a winner.
Cheers
jimbo
- Joined
- Feb 5, 2009
- Location
- San Antonio, Tx
For me the problem began with Windows 95 and my being a complete newby trying to learn to use it. That "Illegal function" message totally freaked me out. It went on for years with each successive version of Windows giving me constant problems. After about 5 years of using XP I finally learned how to make my computer run well. There is no way it should have been that hard.
The thing is I'm very technical minded. I know a lot of other people who have no clue how to make a computer work well. They have to ask people like me to help them or take them to the "Geek Squad" to get them fixed. It's wrong for us to pay the amount of money we pay for a computer just to have these problems. It should be easy. People in general need this.
Then during all those years I heard from numerous sources how Macs ran so much better and were so much more user friendly. I have no way of knowing about that. I still can't afford a Mac. I've never used one.
I am no computer user by trade. I work in a lumber mill. I had only one person during all those years to teach me things about computer operation. The rest I got from the wonderful people who hang out in these forums. Since I found the forums I haven't had to bother my computer mentor much at all.
Maybe I shouldn't take it so hard but I can't help it. I feel wronged by Microsoft. It should never have been so hard. People who don't know how to operate computers well are completely at their mercy.
I'm sorry about my rant too. Please forgive me but this is a real sore spot for me.
PcBoyGeorge
Senior Member
- Joined
- May 20, 2009
This is annoying. New users wanting a new pc and familier with IE will not know how to get a browser or how to use the one included. Its stupid!
But im glad that if you get your pc with 7 preinstalled or use a oem disk a browser will be in it as microsoft says oems can slip a browser into it.
So i am going with a new pc and getting one with IE or chrome(if avalible)
But im not upgrading because now it has no browser you can't upgrade. Custom install only.
But im glad that if you get your pc with 7 preinstalled or use a oem disk a browser will be in it as microsoft says oems can slip a browser into it.
So i am going with a new pc and getting one with IE or chrome(if avalible)
But im not upgrading because now it has no browser you can't upgrade. Custom install only.
THANK YOU!! Jimbo. I an far from being a Microsoft "fanboy", but , no longer a young man, I am becoming tired to the pont of despiration with the constant, and unwarranted, attacks on Microsoft. Oh yes. If they had no done it, someone else would have done it. Bu in spite of that hypothetical argument, Microsoft have brought hours of convenient pleasure to millions, and vastly improved efficiency to the business millions. Of course they make mistakes. Of course they make money. Is that justified cause for such virulent attack?
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