Windows 7 wont load with gpt drive plugged in

Discussion in 'Windows 7 Help and Support' started by HyperionN, Apr 7, 2016.

  1. HyperionN

    HyperionN New Member

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    I got a 5tb drive, and since I wanted it to be one large partition I used gpt. Windows recognized the disk, formatted it, and let me copy files. But when I restarted windows it froze on the "starting windows" screen. I figured out after some messing around that unplugging the drive lets windows boot. And if I plug the drive back in while windows is running, I can access it as normal. But I can't load windows with it plugged in.

    It doesn't seem to be a bios issue, I am making it all the way to the starting windows screen with the copyright and the swirling orbs (though I don't get to see any orbs). I know I could probably just clear the drive and use mbr but I really don't want to do that.

    I'm using Windows 7 Ultimate x64
     
  2. holdum333

    holdum333 Banned

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    Hi! Why don't you want to use MBR. Also what are your boot options. Sounds to me like you have it set to boot from USB. When you unplug your USB, then it's able to boot from HDD??. Other members mayhave more suggestions latter.;) It sounds to me that you're tiring to boot to a USB that doesn't have a OS on it!
    PS I'm not really sure what you done?? Could you please explain exactly what you done! Are you trying to install your OS on a new hard drive. Did you clone the drive or do you have a image program??
     

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    #2 holdum333, Apr 7, 2016
    Last edited: Apr 7, 2016
  3. HyperionN

    HyperionN New Member

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    I don't want to use MBR because it doesn't allow partitions larger than 2tb. I want my 5tb drive to be one large partition. I'm not trying to reinstall windows, and its not a usb drive, its sata. I just added a 5tb sata drive to my pc. And I already checked the boot order. It starts to boot from the system drive, but it hangs at the startup screen (the one with the windows logo). My guess is that whatever initialization it does at this point for your hard drives doesn't like the gpt format. Even though it could format it, and when I plug it back in after windows loads it reads it fine.

    edit: just to clarify, the 5tb drive I added is not the system drive. It doesn't have an OS on it, just files. I'm using it to replace the 4 smaller storage drives I was using. And if i have to partition it, then it sort of defeats what I was trying to do, which is to consolidate all my (non-system) crap onto one big drive.
     
    #3 HyperionN, Apr 7, 2016
    Last edited: Apr 7, 2016
  4. holdum333

    holdum333 Banned

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    OK! I'm just saying to me it sounds like your PC is looking for a OS on the 5tb drive instead of the drive with the OS on it??
    Maybe other members will have suggestions latter!
     
  5. HyperionN

    HyperionN New Member

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    I don' think there is any way that can be the issue. It's last in my boot order and the freeze happens on the windows logo screen, which means it is booting from the correct drive (the only one with windows on it) otherwise how would it display that screen?
     
  6. holdum333

    holdum333 Banned

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    Hi! I maybe mistaken; but just because you see the logo screen, doesn't mean it's booting from the OS drive. How else can you explain your PC completing when the 5Tb is disconnected. How is the 5TB attached??
    Maybe other members will comment later.;)
     
  7. holdum333

    holdum333 Banned

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    Hi ! I have a 1TB external hard drive plugged into a USB port on my Toshiba laptop. If I change the boot order to make the USB as the first boot order, my PC will not boot in to windows, but it will POST. That's all I know!
    Thanks for your reply!
     
  8. Joe S

    Joe S Excellent Member

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    That is a common problem people run into with USB drives. The boot order needs to be changed in the BIOS.
    Joe
     
  9. holdum333

    holdum333 Banned

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    Yup Thanks Joe! However my Toshiba will let me change my boot order without going into the BIOS, but that feature is not available on every manufacture.;) Team work is good. Thanks for your reply!
     

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  10. HyperionN

    HyperionN New Member

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    to clarify again, I'm, not using usb, its sata. And yes I checked the boot order. And how could it load a windows startup screen if it wasnt booting from the correct drive? I only have windows installed on one drive, so where would the logo screen come from if not from there? The windows logo screen is not saved in bios.....
     
  11. Neemobeer

    Neemobeer Windows Forum Team
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    Boot order shouldn't be an issue even if the second drive was before the OS drive, BIOS would simply look at the first disk and move to the next one. Also if you're getting the Windows loading screen then the boot loader is loading.

    What tool did you use to format the second drive with? Also is the first disk MBR or GPT?
     
  12. HyperionN

    HyperionN New Member

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    ok, so i tried making the disk mbr and it was still hanging on the windows load. Then I tried a different sata port and it worked. Then I put a different hd on the sata port I had been using and it worked too.


    So I guess windows, for some reason, didn't like having a 5tb drive on that sata port... But it's ok with a 2tb drive on there? I'll make a new post if something goes wrong but for now my issue seems solved.
     
    #12 HyperionN, Apr 14, 2016
    Last edited: Apr 14, 2016
  13. BIGBEARJEDI

    BIGBEARJEDI Honorable Member
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    Hi,

    I see where the confusion came from in this thread so I'll offer to try and clean it up. OP, you are mentioning the difference between a USB and a SATA drive; when actually your terminology is off a bit. SATA is the type of drive interface used on the hard drive to connect the drive to the Motherboard. 99% of hard drives that are external these days use SATA or eSATA drive interfaces, as those are the types of drives inside the external drive box enclosures. When you said you were using a SATA drive, what you meant to say was that you were physically connecting your hard drive to a SATA port or connector on the Motherboard. When you said you were using the 5TB USB drive, you were talking about connecting an external 5TB hard drive (SATA or eSATA) to the PC Motherboard via the USB interface port. This is where the confusion came in for Holdum I believe. Also, it sounds like you are using a desktop PC and not a laptop, since you have access to add a 2nd physical hard drive (SATA or eSATA) to your computer and in most cases you cannot do this on a laptop (unless it's one of the rare ones I've seen that come with 2 hard drive internal bays--yes, I've actually seen one of these!).

    Next, it would be helpful in the future if you could post back the make/model of the PC you are using, and whether or not it's an OEM PC (Dell, HP, Acer/Gateway, ASUS, etc.) or a SELF-BUILT PC also known as a CUSTOM-RIG or GAMING-RIG. This simply means did you build your own PC from assembled parts you purchased, or buy one from a major computer maker (OEM)? It's often important for us to know your specific hardware environment so that we may better help you. People here often jump into a problem, and forget to give us this information, and these "go-rounds" occur quite often since we can't see the computer you have in front of you, we are left to guess what you have. Thanks!

    The reason I am asking this at this point, at it may be moot to you since you say you've fixed your problem, is that there are a number of PC BIOSes that have issues with the newer large multi-terabyte drives especially 4TB or larger (they are coming up to 8TB in size currently). OP, as you mention in Post #3, most BIOSes cannot recognize larger drives (2TB or larger) as you mention, however, if you have a modern PC, then it should have a UEFI BIOS in it. However, some computers and custom-rigs with Motherboards have had UEFI for 6 years or so, but that was back in 2009, and there were no hard drives larger than 2TB back then, so the UEFI BIOSes weren't designed to handle drive partitions that large or larger, hence the 2TB single partition limit. So, depending on whether or not you have a Motherboard that was manufactured from 2009-2011 or so, it's UEFI BIOS is quite likely out of date, and can therefore not properly use a GPT-partitioned >2TB hard drive!! Without an update from the Motherboard manufacturer that is. These are almost always free and can be downloaded directly from the manufacturer's website; i.e. Mobos from ASUS, GIGABYTE, MSI, etc. If you have an OEM PC, then from Dell, HP, Acer/Gateway, ASUS, etc. These BIOS updates, specifically address and correct the problem of recognizing and communicating with GPT-partitioned or formatted hard drives which have become available more recently (*>2011).

    Now you can see why I asked for exact specs on the type of PC you have and it's components--specifically the Motherboard and manufacture date if you have it. The date your Motherboard was manufactured can help us determine whether or not your UEFI BIOS can be updated or note. We often help people do this with a similar issue you are having, and often it resolves it. The real issue you will face is that if you do follow our recommendation here above, and update your UEFI BIOS to the latest version from your Mobo manufacturer, and it still doesn't solve your problem, then your hardware is not capable of recognizing the new larger multi-terabyte drives with a single >2TB partition in GPT mode.:zoned: That then means that in order to use it as you have suggested you'd like to do, would mean that you'd have to replace the entire PC if it's an OEM PC, or most likely a Mobo replacement on a CUSTOM-RIG.:( The real gotcha here if you indeed have a CUSTOM-RIG is that a Mobo replacement often means new RAM chips, new PSU, and even a new Case if the new Mobo you select has a differing form-factor from your original build configuration.:skull:

    **If you have an OEM PC, none of this matters because you CANNOT upgrade the Mobo from the factory in most instances as it won't be available or compatible to your existing case, internal hardware, etc. And even if you could since you are changing out your Motherboard, your Windows install on your existing C: boot drive will no longer work with your Win7 license key on that computer since the license is registered to the original Mobo (OEM or Purchased Custom). And you'd have to go out and purchase a new Win7 license.**

    Since you seem pretty savvy on the basics of MPR versus GPT formatting, you may have indeed updated your UEFI BIOS and your new 5TB hdd is still not being recognized by your Windows as a single partition. This probably means that your hardware is simply not compatible. Period. And it would require a complete PC replacement or a multi-component rebuild if a CUSTOM-RIG. Probably not what you are looking to do; but that's what happens when you try to use brand new technology with older hardware. This is not a criticism in any way--just a plain fact.

    An interesting side-note for you, I have a NON-UEFI BIOS on my 2008 Dell Studio540 desktop PC, and I have been able to use my new WD 3TB MyPassport USB drive (external, SATA) in the single partition mode. In spite of that fact, my Mobo does not have UEFI, it's a pre-UEFI BIOS, but Dell did a tremendous design job, anticipating the larger drive sizes, and with their Mobo and BIOS architecture, their most recent update to my BIOS (2015) allowed me to see all 3TB as a single GPT partition no problem. This of course may not be the case with other Dell models 2008-2010 say, as well as other manufacturer's PCs or other Mobo based CUSTOM-RIGS.
    But, it's worth mentioning here for other folks facing this same problem and reading this thread, that NON-UEFI BIOS based PCs of that era (6-8 years old) may still be able to access the entire drive via GPT partition type, as long as you install the manufacturer recommended BIOS update necessary.


    Cheers! :encouragement: :brew:
    <<<BIGBEARJEDI>>>


     
    #13 BIGBEARJEDI, Apr 14, 2016
    Last edited: Apr 14, 2016
  14. holdum333

    holdum333 Banned

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    Very nice reply BBJ! You are way above my pay grade my friend.;) I have a Toshiba lap top with a 500GB internal HHD. I using 39GB.
    I have a external seagate 1TB for my back up images and other things. I'm using 98 GB. I don't see why this old country boy would ever need a 5TB, so I won't need all the great information you provided in your reply, but it was very good reading and I think you cleared this issue up nicely.
    Well done sir!:up:
     
  15. BIGBEARJEDI

    BIGBEARJEDI Honorable Member
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    @Holdum: Thanks, Bro!! I'm putting the blushing emogi here now...:aww: Always appreciate kind words! It makes my efforts seem worthwhile! See you on the next thread-bus! :polite::cat:
     
  16. HyperionN

    HyperionN New Member

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    I actually never said it was usb, that was the assumption of others. I tried to make it clear from the start that it is just a normal internal 5tb sata hdd. I don't have uefi bios (to my knowledge), but my understanding was that uefi is only necessary if you want to BOOT from a gpt drive. And since the drive was just for data, and my windows was always using the drive fine, and the boot made it past bios, I don't think bios is/was an issue.

    I have noticed that since I fixed things, my windows startup still kind of hangs at the same spot. But instead of completely freezing, it goes through after 10-30 seconds. And it seems to take longer the first restart after moving files to the drive (I'm in the process of putting back the 3tb of files I had on it when this issue started). So my working theory is that maybe windows needs extra time to initialize (or whatever it does) with a gpt drive, and maybe having made big changes to the data makes that take longer. So perhaps adding 3tb all at once was too much for it to figure out, or it was never really frozen, it was just hanging so long on startup that I assumed it was. Keep in mind that I could ALWAYS disconnect the drive, startup windows, then reconnect the drive and have full usability.

    So I don't really have answers, just ideas. But for now it seems to be working.

    edit: just to clarify, I was ALWAYS getting the full 5tb when I had the drive formatted as gpt. Everything functioned perfectly, the only issue was the hanging/freezing on windows load. It is a self built gaming rig, I don't remember exactly how old the mobo is but I know I've updated the bios once or twice.
     
    #16 HyperionN, Apr 14, 2016
    Last edited: Apr 14, 2016
  17. BIGBEARJEDI

    BIGBEARJEDI Honorable Member
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    Hi, I see we finally got some information back from you, thanks. However, we still don't have hardware specs on your system, and that's especially important with a CUSTOM-RIG machine, especially the Mobo spec.

    Glad to hear it's working for you now. Also Holdum had asked if your boot drive (C: drive) was formatted MBR or GPT. You never answered that question, and it is relevant to the troubleshooting issue at hand. There are known issues with both UEFI and non-UEFI BIOSes having issues with 2 different drive format setups; C: Drive as MPR and D: Drive as GPT. Again, BIOS updates can help solve this. Since you didn't provide us with your Mobo or full hardware specs, such as the Mobo model number, we can't dispute what you are saying about your statement that you indeed have the latest Mobo BIOS update.

    One other thing; the delay you are experiencing on your windows startup is NOT normal, so you have some other problem you haven't resolved yet. And the HAL detection portion of Windows startup is NOT done at the Windows splash screen, it still reads devices on the hardware bus all the way through the password login (unless of course you have not password on your windows account). This is evident with your network or wireless network adapter (take a look at when that driver actually gets initialized). Both NON-UEFI and UEFI BIOSes are still communicating with devices such as storage devices on the SATA bus at that point, so if you have a BIOS-level incompatibility with GPT formatting type issue, you can get delays, hangs, or freezing as you indicated. In your case it wasn't bad to the point where you lost access to the device or the MFT, it just caused boot delay that could be fixed by removing the device. The fact that you had to remove the device to get past the hang tells us that you had or still have an incompatibility with your Mobo hardware.

    Without having your full specs, we are just guessing at what you actually have in your PC case, so it's not to be expected that we could have helped you much. Some of your statements lead us to believe that you have some knowledge in this area, but there are some inaccuracies mentioned. At this point, I would suggest that to really prove your Mobo is working ok, try taking the 5TB drive to a more modern PC, preferably an OEM machine with UEFI BIOS, and plug it into a secondary SATA port on the Mobo and see whether THAT PC experiences a startup hang or not. If it does not, that would strongly indicate your Mobo is incompatible, and that likelihood is strong since it's a NON-UEFI BIOS, and as we've mentioned before, most Mobos that are PRE-UEFI capable often have problems recognizing or using a >2TB drive formatted with GPT.

    Enough said.
    <<<BBJ>>>
     

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