9 Things Microsoft needs to do to make windows 9 good

Discussion in 'Microsoft Products and Community' started by Ralph Bromley, Jan 16, 2014.

  1. Ralph Bromley

    Ralph Bromley Honorable Member

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    Okay so as an outsider to windows it seems that Microsofts move to come out with a new version of windows is both a laugh riot and a sad sight.
    I think Microsoft done goofed once more and maybe its time to see how it can undo its mistake.

    The key to the failure is Microsofts need to do a mobile interface but force it on all platforms and not have it entirely work that well on non tablet interfaces.
    Even 8.1 shows that Microsoft was too ambitious but had no sense in thier move to embrace mobile.
    Now of course I dont expect Microsoft to read this post or anything, but for fun here are my proposals for a better experience:

    1: Make Metro and the desktop play nice with eachother.
    If its one issue I have had with 8 in general is that there is a huge disconnect between regular desktop apps and metro apps.
    The metro apps work off an entirely different paradigm and this causes a disconnect between desktop and metro.
    If anything metro apps and desktop apps should have the same basic interface so there is no disconnect.
    Sure as a linux user I am aware that linux itself has more then one interface, but there is little to no disconnect between them if you use an app from another interface.
    In the linux world there are two main graphical interfaces, the GTK and the QT interface.
    How they interact is a little different from eachother but this does not interfere with how they behave on other interfaces.
    For example a gnome app (based on GTK) will function the same way it does in gnome even if it is ran inside another desktop environment like KDE which uses QT as its graphical front end.
    Now how does one remedy the fact that one is intended for desktops and the other for metro?
    Simple metro apps will still have the same basic interfaces as it does on the desktop such as the normal close button, maximise button and minimize button.
    However windows should have the ability to detect if one is using a mouse or a touchscren, if windows detects a mouse it should treat it as a mouse and not a touchscreen.
    Even a multitouch trackpad should be treated as a mouse with swipe gestures turned off if windows detects it.
    And all this can be programmed into the kernel, there should be an autodetect mode of some kind.
    Heck if linux can do something like this windows sure as heck can. (note that linux is still being worked on for touchscreens but there are some ideas to implement this idea in the next year or so. I know its in the works for Ubuntu and its unity interface)

    2: Have the metro start menu behave like a normal start menu
    Now windows 8.1 had the right idea here but it does need some improvement.
    Such as if mouse is detected allow right click functions such as "add to taskbar"
    Now I didnt see this option in my trial of one of the rc's of 8.1 and am unsure if it made it into the final.

    3: Less side scrolling when using a mouse
    Ugh if its one issue I really hated in both my trials of 8 and 8.1 its the side scrolling.
    While great for touchscreens if its one feature that could be desperately included is the ability to not side scroll when using a mouse and when a mouse is detected windows could use the gnome 3.10 /android method of app searching:

    I may not be a fan of Gnome 3.10 it at least works better in some areas as a desktop interface then metro.

    4: Better app searching in the windows software center
    Again this is a major weakness in both 8 and 8.1
    The app categorization is a total mess with endless side scrolling and poor integration of the search bar.
    I think it should take lessons from google play where you only have a few categories at first but each category has a set of sub categories.
    With a clear indication of what does what via tooltips when using a mouse.
    This is very similar to what Ubuntu unity is doing:

    (note this is from a bit back and the feature has been improved since the video was made, but you see how the concept is executed well enough)

    5: Make tutorials easily viewable.
    Again 8.1 was on the right track here, but maybe there should be a tutorial right after initial log in with the option to view the tutorial or not a easy to do thing.
    Like a simple yes and no question.
    Or just keep it in the start menu, easily viewable at all times until not needed (at end users discretion)

    6: Make the control center viewable in any setup
    Adding it to the charms bar is a good idea, but differentiate it from the settings section.

    7: Mac style taskbar when using the mouse in metro apps
    Basically if a mouse is detected it should allow the bottom corner of the screen pop up with the taskbar/superbar while not interfering with the function of the app.
    So certain apps like Metro IE would have to be tweaked so that when the bottom is hovered over it wont cover the address bar by mistake.
    This is something much like how the dock works in OSX when set to hide.

    8: Old style start menu/ traditional desktop as an option
    Okay so even if the Metro start menu is made to work bewtter for mice, maybe the old start menu could be re enabled without third party software.
    Or even have the option of after initial boot and login of choosing metro or traditional desktop.
    Traditional desktop mode would force traditional desktop settings to even metro apps so there is no disconnect.
    This may be more feasible then my first proposal but it could make up for some of the mistakes microsoft made with 8 and 8.1

    9: Make transition make sense:
    So if Microsoft doesnt do any of the above this is the best option possible, if you are going to go from say windows 7 to 9 make sure there is consistency.
    If going from 8 or 8.1 make sure there is consistency and make 9 detect what upgrade path you are coming from.
    If you are using 7 9 should work like 7.
    If coming from 8 or 8.1 then 9 should work like them.
    Sure still allow the option top go between metro and traditional desktop at will but make it make sense.
    If microsoft is going to fix things this is the best possible solution, dont make things harder then they have to be.

    But in the end this just just a hobby post, but how do you feel about my proposals?
    I know I did being up linux once or twice but its a nice comparison as linux is going the same route as windows here soon but its taking its time to work things out as opposed to stumble in.
    Microsoft is a good teacher in that respect.
    And yeah i still call "modern UI" metro, but i do think it is a better name :D
     
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  2. Mike

    Mike Windows Forum Admin
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    I think Windows 8 was pushed out too quickly embrace the mobile market and try to create an eco-system that works with a unified login, as well as home entertainment devices and touch screen tablets and phones. Here is the thing: They will ultimately unify the desktop OS, mobile phone OS, and their gaming system into the same platform. This is because other competitors are trying to do it already. I give credit where credit is due for pushing out something as ambitious as Windows 8, but businesses still need to look at the cost benefit for adoption. I would say Windows 9 will be an attempt to move forward on the ideas I mentioned above, while also giving desktop users (many of whom still rely on traditional hardware, and in business) some slack.

    With a lot of software development, the installer and uninstaller is the last thing the developer works on, which is why people were so desperately in search of software removal programs, as well as "registry cleaners". On an old system with 128MB of RAM, cleaning the registry with tons of invalid entries, in Windows XP, did, in fact, help with performance issues. This has become less of an issue in newer versions of Windows, probably due to the way memory is allocated.

    As to where I was going with that, the upgrade path from Windows XP to Windows 7 was problematic, but I believe this is because too many junk files would be left over; too many registry entry conflicts would need to be resolved. I think they realized it was probably unfeasible to offer customers an upgrade path that doesn't necessarily work and may bog down an older system. Windows 7 was all about performance. I think you could say Windows 8 was about introducing new features for next-gen computing systems. As far as people using the platform on anything other than personal computers, laptops, and desktops, this is a difficulty. So we will see what happens with Windows 8.2 and Windows 9.
     
  3. Ralph Bromley

    Ralph Bromley Honorable Member

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    well since 7 and 8 basically have the same guts I think 9 will follow, given they only hav e a year to do this it makes me think this wont be like a revamp like vista was to XP.
    7 is a good base so why dump it, just improve the kernel and it should be fine for another rebrand.
    Heck even if it was just another spin with 8 it would be a good base, you just got to clean up the mess made with metros inclusion with the kernel.
     
  4. Mitchell_A

    Mitchell_A Excellent Member

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    I agree with all your points, with the exception of number 3. I find side to side scrolling more convenient as it allows lines of text and other information to be wider and also guides the eye to parts of the next screen that are cut off before scrolling, suggesting to the user that they are able to scroll to see more within an app. That's my perspective anyway.
     
  5. Ralph Bromley

    Ralph Bromley Honorable Member

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    The problem though is that its still better with a touchscreen then with a mouse, its just how the interaction is rather then how you like it.
    I am sure for some people side scrolling is fine but having some sort of page system would be better for more traditional setups.
    The current method is just too much like a swipe gesture and not really fluid with a mouse in my tests.
     
  6. Mitchell_A

    Mitchell_A Excellent Member

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    For some people, it may be the more desired outcome. For most users, however, it is not more desired it is simply what they are accustomed to from previous versions of Windows, which comes back to the fact that many people hate change even in situations where it isn't necessarily bad. When I first started using Windows 8 I loved the new interface because I enjoy change and learning new concepts. Since then I have changed from using Windows 8 on a mouse and keyboard combo to a Microsoft Surface with primarily touchscreen use. That has truly made me realize just how much more sense Windows 8 makes when using a touchscreen. Microsoft has also taken this into consideration and a lot of changes will come forth to optimize the experience for desktop users in Windows 8.1 update 1 which is rumoured to be slated for an April 8th release.
     
  7. Ralph Bromley

    Ralph Bromley Honorable Member

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    The thing is the change would not be so bad if it were not so drastic and so abrupt that everything feels so out of place and just not the way that it should have been done.
    A more slow transition into a touchscreen interface would have been better rather then hitting the masses with a full touchscreen experience right off.
    Again its all approut approach and Microsoft had messed up on that end.
    Heck I am more forgiving of the mistakes made here in linux land such as Gnome shell or Unity because linux is not a major commercial OS and is more or less for hobbyists like myself who like their systems to work the way they want them to.
    But with a commercial grade OS you have a different set of rules and standards, you do not charge a crap ton of money for a below average system that most hate.
    And this is not the first time Microsoft pushed a system that was more trouble then it is worth, 98, ME and Vista were all huge mistakes.
    This is all due to Microsofts wish to push out something new every few years rather then trying to improve on what they had.
    That kind of behavior makes linux look sane because at least linux is improving itself.
    How well is up to the end user of course but Microsoft seems to like digging its own grave.
     
  8. Mitchell_A

    Mitchell_A Excellent Member

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    Change keeps people interested however. If they had improved upon Windows XP for the rest of eternity, there would be far few Windows users still around today, but certainly a slower transition would have been more helpful. Ironically I feel as though Linux could do a major overhaul in their next release and get away with it as the user-base is often far more tech-savvy and users of Linux may have a tendency to love newer things such as that.
     
  9. Ralph Bromley

    Ralph Bromley Honorable Member

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    Well yes we linux users are very adaptive, I actually consider that a compliment.
    But as for this part of your comment:

    If they had improved upon Windows XP for the rest of eternity, there would be far few Windows users still around today.

    No I consider this mind set wrong, and in fact I think its a part of the problem.
    Yes change can be good but change for the sake of change is not a good approach to things and its an issue I faced personally in the linux community many times.
    Like the change from KDE3 to 4 or Gnome 2 to 3 there were a lot of drastic changes that not only ruined the user experience but caused a gap in the community.
    Improving what you have can be a good thing and if it was one thing that needed improvement it was XP.
    In fact I think later versions of windows could have been new add ons to the base of XP and made optional so that those without the proper hardware could get it at their own pace.
    Planned obsolescence is one of the biggest issues I have with the commercial OS's as it forces the end user to go get the latest and greatest as opposed to letting them go at their own pace.
    Sure one can have kernel updates, software updates but make sure they are compatible with your last build of your OS.
    This is what linux is doing, ever evolving and getting better.
    Windows is stuck perpetually in whatever version you are comfortable with if you choose not to "upgrade" and when you do its so drastic and different it requires an entire system reinstall.
    I hardly ever have to do this in linux, sure linux has its faults but its not nearly as much of a pain to keep upgraded as it is on windows.
    Especially if you use more then one partition.
     
  10. Ralph Bromley

    Ralph Bromley Honorable Member

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  11. brkkab

    brkkab Senior Member

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    I physically have the 8.1 Update installed on both my pc's, as of 1:30 P.M. yesterday. I got it from Microsoft before they killed the link for it yesterday. It add's boot to desktop automatically, if you don't have a touch-screen, right-click options for pinning to taskbar, etc. in the Start screen. It also, add's link name's to the top of all modern app's for only pc's with non-touch devices. That includes the normal X at the top right for closing modern app's. It add's the Windows Store automatically to the desktop's taskbar. Any modern app's can be placed there, also. It add's a power and search icon next to your name on the Start screen, too.
     
  12. brkkab

    brkkab Senior Member

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    From what I've heard over the weekend, the version of 8.1 Update 1, I downloaded, is the RTM version.
     
  13. Ralph Bromley

    Ralph Bromley Honorable Member

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    They should have done this a long time ago, I mean come on Microsoft nice way to make your customers hate you.
    Luckily for them I hated Microsoft long before windows 8, otherwise I would be crying about this stuff more often.
     

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