CPU Temperature Error

Discussion in 'Windows 7 Help and Support' started by NewfieEK, May 14, 2016.

  1. RichM

    RichM Active Member

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    Great let us know what they find...actually the wattage on Psu means little as this is one of the components where the brand means more than anything else IMHO.
     
  2. matterny

    matterny New Member

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    Also, can someone explain why the power supply being under bolted would cause this much heat? I could understand something like the fan not spinning, but you seemed to imply that the CPU it's self would produce heat from being under volted.
     
  3. RichM

    RichM Active Member

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    No I don't think that's what anyone is saying...poor quality psu damages certain components like cpu by not providing sufficient power to them but not causing over heating. A few of actually said we don't see the psu causing the heat issue on cpu.
     
  4. William B

    William B Active Member

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    The only way a computer power supply can actually "cause" heat is for it to be dumping heat (usually inadvertently) back into the case, or rather re-circulating it within the case. This can be caused by the improper mounting of a power supply (blocking the power supply fan) or installing a newer model power supply in a newer type case with the fan facing upwards (recirculating the air) instead of downwards to suck fresh air from the bottom facing vents in the case that are meant for the power supply to be affixed on top of. However, it's usually not an issue if the case itself has proper front-to-rear airflow with two good fans. 120MM fans are preferable.

    As for quality power supplies I agree with the above statement that the quality and therefore the quality amperage and even steady power supply is extremely important for overall computer system and nominal computer operations, especially when gaming is involved where temperatures can be much higher and the power draw needs to be steady and strong.
     
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  5. kemical

    kemical Windows Forum Admin
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    Exactly!
     
  6. nmsuk

    nmsuk Windows Forum Admin
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    I've seen a PSU going bad do weird things with cpu temp. I'm guessing this though is either the fan has stopped working or the cooling compound has gone off. Easy to check goto the bios and check the cpu temp and fan speed from there.
     
  7. BIGBEARJEDI

    BIGBEARJEDI Honorable Member
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    >>>No problem, NewfieEK. We appreciate the clarification back, and will advise further on your PSU size for your hardware. Glad this information proved helpful to you.<<<
    <<<BBJ>>>
     
  8. BIGBEARJEDI

    BIGBEARJEDI Honorable Member
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    >>>Mike; thanks for the detailed response!:) Very good information there. Unless Power Supplies have changed a lot in the last 20-30 years; I think you're a little off on your answer. I used to build and test Power Supplies for several companies in both the Server PC business as well as Biomedical equipment (Heart Monitors, specifically). Both of these industries are notorious for business-critical and life-support-critical applications--they can't afford to fool around with poor quality Power Supplies in their equipment. Back in the 70s, & 80s Switcher power supply technology was just coming out. In the Lab, we had special variable Power Generators, and we were able to adjust rails with a rheostat type knob switch on each and every power rail being output out of the PSU; +12Vdc, -12Vdc, +5Vdc, -5Vdc, and some other oddball ones like +/- 14Vdc; +/-18Vdc, etc., and then observe the results. With the testing we did, we were also able to put Microprocessor Chip Emulators from Intel and AMD directly into the Mobo sockets, and see the results on a computer screen in agonizing detail; and simultaneously on an Oscilloscope *might be before your time!*, that included every single I/O line into and out of that CPU socket; both signal voltages, ground lines, and all data buss lines. We certainly did see things like undervoltage on 1 or more rails damage the CPU chips. We specifically tested for this to eliminate the problem. In well-made PSUs, there are circuit design compensations that provide protection to the CPU chip itself from this particular problem. However, as I've posted in detail elsewhere on our forum, the detailed PSU design guide put together buy a bunch of engineers who also know their way around Power Supply technology as it pertains to building custom-rig gaming systems. Based on my direct experience with inexpensive PSUs made over the years, I believe this to be the case more often than you would think.o_O On failed PSUs that test with 1 or more low voltage rails, as tested with a Multimeter, probably 1-2 in 10 CPU chips are damaged and must be replaced. Of course this varies, and doesn't happen all that much with OEM built PSUs; but it does happen. You're last line of your last paragraph states:
    "...If anything the PSU can overheat from undervolting the other components in extreme circumstances.".
    I would submit that undervolting as you put it can and does damage and even scorch the CPU chip in occasional circumstances, rather than extreme circumstances. In fact, we used to go through bags of CPU chips that we would intentionally destroy in just this method. This is because that today as we know, just about all PCs and laptops are now built in China, and the majority of PSUs are built in China and Taiwan. The quality of the components used in the lower end OEM PCs and laptops are often sub-standard quality, and that's why the PSU industry has gone to the SILVER-GOLD-PLATINUM ratings standards. Some of the more expensive PSUs are assembled in the USA, but are still using circuit components manufactured overseas. This is in of itself not bad, but just like PC and laptop factories in China, quality control can vary widely by brand as you are well aware. This is also true of the component manufacturers over there as well. Just my 2 cents.
    <<<BBJ>>>
    :brew:
     
  9. BIGBEARJEDI

    BIGBEARJEDI Honorable Member
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    >>>Well, Rich having been a PSU designer decades ago (as I just posted back to Mike's response), I'm not certain that's true the way you worded it. :noway: I think it's more of a Guideline.;) But, PC and laptop engineers can and do add up all the component wattages and then add the old "fudge-factor" or overcompensation rule of thumb all engineers are taught in school to use. If what you are saying was strictly true, I could buy a Seasonic or Corsair 150W PSU, and because it's a good brand it would power this OP's custom-built PC just fine?? I don't believe that's true.:ohno: One has to look at the standard rules for computing a PSU's total power output to the Mobo and internal as well as externally connected devices it must power. I know what your are meaning to say, and that's "given an adequate computed total power output measured in wattage for a specific list of components, that a calculated wattage value of say 450W is determined, quality will vary widely by the PSU brand chosen by the system builder. This in turn can cause multiple failures including premature component failure due to temperature, heat, or altitude stresses, as well as undervoltage and overvoltage issues in the Motheboard and other connected components. Therefore it's more important to choose a PSU brand that has excellent reputation for using quality components and design, at an equivalent wattage (i.e. 450W in this example), than a low-quality brand". I'm posting this for others reading this thread including the Tech at the repair shop where the OP is planning on taking his PC.
    <<<
    <<<BBJ>>>
    :)
     
  10. Mike

    Mike Windows Forum Admin
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    I think that if the guy can bake a chicken on top of the processor die, the fan is dead or the CPU has lost voltage regulation. Hopefully he sends it to a shop soon.

    Sent from my SM-T710 using Windows Forums mobile app
     
    #30 Mike, May 16, 2016
    Last edited: May 16, 2016
  11. RichM

    RichM Active Member

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    BBJ you are reading what I said literally and I didn't mean it that way exactly so you are correct. I just didn't say it right. I didn't mean that you could buy a Seasonic 200 watt psu and power a superfast gaming pc. I simply meant the brand is more important than high wattage on a generic or no name psu. What I should have said was find the right wattage in a good quality branded psu.
     
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  12. BIGBEARJEDI

    BIGBEARJEDI Honorable Member
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    Good one, Mike! graphics-snoopy-360370.
     
  13. William B

    William B Active Member

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    That is very true. One needs a good combination of quality power, and also some overhead (about 15-20%) in wattage when a gaming system is involved. That way you kill two birds with one stone -- the high quality (and steady with as few variances as possible) +12v rail, and also some decent overhead if and when one decides to upgrade to more drives, or more drives and or a stronger GPU. Typically when I build a gaming system I take into account what the user needs @ 90% (I give about 10% leeway to 100%), and I add about 20% to that. So a 90%@450-500W draw system would need at least a 650W high quality power supply in my shop for a gamer system. This takes also takes into account a possible heavier power draw GPU or heavier TDP processor upgrade. Example an FX 6300 to an FX 8350, and or an upgrade from a GTX 760 to an R9 290.
     
  14. BIGBEARJEDI

    BIGBEARJEDI Honorable Member
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    @WilliamB: I see you've built a few systems. We really are on the same page on this!!;) On my Dell Studio540 desktop PC I was getting BSODs, and random hangs for years, until I did some more research on PSUs. Turns out that Dell uses around a 350W PSU for this machine I bought in 2008 *gonna be 8 years old this summer*. I bumped that up to a SEASONIC SS-750KM3 750W 80 GOLD CERTIFIED psu, and it's made a tremendous difference in how my system performs! It cost me like $150+, but it's been well worth it. I do not run a high-end Gaming GPU card, as I don't do online gaming; but I do have multiple HDDs in there; 2 internal mechanical drives, and now 3-4 USB external drives. These perform WAY better with a high-performance power supply, and I only get an occasional hangup post Tuesday MS weekly updates push. But, I think that's because my Mobo developed a weird problem and it's getting old.:sosad: I'm probably going to replace the whole PC in the next year or so to get USB3.0 capability which I really need for my work. I tried one of those add-in PCI-1x internal usb3.0 cards, but it doesn't work on my Mobo apparently it needs a full UEFI BIOS to work; I have AHCI, but that's not enough for the add-in card FW. o_O Since I do lots of Image Backups now for my customers and daily full image backups of my C: drive, that takes up more space and I had to get more usb drives to manage this. So I am regularly copying and transferring 130GB+ file sizes between drives. This high-performance PSU has really rejuvenated my system. I was actually thinking of replacing it earlier this year in Jan. prior to upgrading the PSU to the Seasonic.
    Cheers! :cool: <<<BBJ>>> :victorious:
     
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  15. William B

    William B Active Member

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    Yes BIGBEAR I have been building since about 1999 or so. When you hear about nagging issues with unexplainable FPS drops in gaming, lockups and or reboots, and various other issues, more often than not a new high quality power supply will get rid of most if not all the little nagging issues provided the rest of the hardware/driver configuration/BIOS setup is good. Kudos on picking a 750W Seasonic you can't really do any better than that for quality :)
     
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  16. kemical

    kemical Windows Forum Admin
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    Agreed.. :) I have one too!
     
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  17. RichM

    RichM Active Member

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    Me three! No question they are the best.
     
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  18. BIGBEARJEDI

    BIGBEARJEDI Honorable Member
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    >>>
    >>>Thanks William!!:ohyea: Looks like I'm not the only one either.:shades: Last home system I built from scratch was like 1997; I usually take old OEM boxes and rebuild them with better components than they came with, except the Mobo's; and refurbish to sell or donate. I've been doing that now since 1993. For the last few years I've been promising to build my son a Gaming rig from scratch, but I didn't have the money. Now that I have access to my retirement funds, I'm going to start buying components 1 at a time, using recommendations from here, and put together a really nice system for him for Christmas or Birthday gift. I don't do online Gaming, but he's been doing it since he was knee-high to a Mid-tower!! <<<
    <<<You have any suggestions on Cases?:indecisiveness:>>>

    <<<BBJ>>>
     
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  19. kemical

    kemical Windows Forum Admin
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    Awww.. Way to go BBJ! :)
     
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  20. RichM

    RichM Active Member

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    Sorry to butt in but as William knows I own this case and not only is it awesome looking it smiles at you as it turns on in blue and screams at you when flying in red! It also has a port on top to attach a hard drive to read and all at an affordable price......
    IN WIN GT1 White SECC Steel ATX Mid Tower Computer Case - Newegg.com
    Don't be afraid of white it never shows any dust!!!!!
     

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