Extremely negative review of 8.1... fair?

Discussion in 'Windows 8 Help and Support' started by Mike, Aug 25, 2013.

  1. Mike

    Mike Windows Forum Admin
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    This gentleman has gone through Windows 8.1 Preview and completely found every possible inkling wrong with it. For the most part, I have looked forward to the technical changes in 8.1 that, perhaps, might increase the stability of the kernel when interacting with rogue drivers. You know, something that doesn't involve animated wallpapers or floating buttons. I actually found his review to be interesting, somewhat constructive criticism of what is going on with Windows 8.1.

    What do you think happened with Windows 8? Did Microsoft get the message that "People don't like the user interface" and then went crazy trying to fix it with 8.1? Because most of these changes are, indeed, what we call in development "eye candy". What do you think of this guy's review? Is it unfair? Good, bad, ugly? Some truth to it?

    My inclination has always been to reserve a judgement call until that horse has already left the proverbial barn. The software that he is reviewing is in an incomplete state. However, there seems to be some truth in at least some of his gripes. I thought I'd open this for conversation. *-)

    You know.. conversation, not arguing :)

    You decide.

     
  2. strollin

    strollin Senior Member

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    The guy repeats several times in the video that MS "...must think their users are morons." The reviewer seems to have forgotten that most users, while not necessarily morons, are less technically inclined and often do need lots of hand holding.

    He spends entirely too much time reviewing the changes to the apps. Apps are NOT the OS. He doesn't even talk about the feature I'm most interested in with 8.1, the ability to boot directly to the desktop.

    I don't think his criticism is too harsh, he's entitled to his opinion.
     
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  3. BigFeet

    BigFeet Senior Member

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    Not saying that it's bad, but it's nothing more than a service pack. As far as features, it has few.
     
  4. davehc

    davehc Microsoft MVP
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    Sensible words from Strollin
    I believe one of the principal reasons for making it a standalone OS/update, is that several items in the kernel were rewritten. A slim decision, perhaps.
    I have, personally, yet to find anything seriously wrong with Windows 8. With that in mind, the only appeasement I find, for present users of 8, is the fact that it can be customised to go direct to the legacy desktop. Very few of the other "improvements", are apparent. The "changes" to the "Metro" desktop, are minimal but, I must admit, welcome, in whatever little they offer.
    I understand that one thing, which could be ready for the RTM release, is an Office Metro application. Good for Office users? Certainly a drive of users further towards the use of the modern screen.
    As strollin remarks, the reviewer spends a great deal of time commenting on App changes. Maybe he found, as I have done, that in the main, these are the only visible differences. If present users of 8 are expecting a return to the familiar, forget it. MS have attempted to appease one complaint, the mandatory opening of the Metro screen as a desktop. This is now optional but Microsoft have apparently drawn the line there. No mind shattering improvements in the legacy desktop usage. Hence the reviewers focus on the modern desktop.
    Mikes question. "fair or unfair". Too much emphasis on criticism of what has, or has not, been achieved. Too little focus on one or two of the (minor) improvements.
    From my own point of view, I have been using modernmix since the earlier days of Windows 8. I boot direct to the legacy desktop. I use the modern screen as my start menu. I have no use for the , now, integrated and synced skydrive does not excite me- I don't use it. So I am not, Im afraid, overwhelmed at the prospect of obtaining Windows 8.1
     
  5. Henry Wong

    Henry Wong Well-Known Member

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    He was way too engrossed in the "no start button" ideal. There is a start button, always has been, its just not in the same spot and doesn't look the same as before. If you want to start this "well then that means its not a start button crap, that would mean 2003 was the last with a start button, because it changed to an orb.

    He immediately started off talking about what it was missing from the start screen...yet it was single apps. :-/ WTF Even 8.0 had missing apps there where in the OS, but didn't get start screen icons till the final release. I also found in humorous how he was griping about no thumbnails and then he found a thumbnail setting LMAO Then there where things like going off on the new IE layout...that's not a new IE layout, it is the same from 8.0, if you use the metro style IE. I have to agree that he talks about MS thinks the users are morons...well some are, some are less and some are intelligent. The problem is they have to cater to the lowest denominator. Also if you look at the new dashboard update on the X360X, it did the same thing as well. The tiles where bunched in closer together, so I would say that MS is sticking to the idea of multiple platform unification. Then the review of the Windows Store...what a load of crap that was. He was griping about how he could only see 40 top apps after griping about how he had to look at reviews for apps not chosen by him that he didn't want to see. He just seemed to be looking for things to gripe about and not really caring to see the good in what was happening in Windows. I also found it interesting that he was talking carp about the camera app, though he didn't mention if 8.1 had drivers for his web cam or not. That would be something one would want to know before knocking an application, because that might be a PEBCAK issue.

    It was an interesting watch, though just seemed like another bash MS and Windows video, which in my opinion, is becoming way too many to handle. I would give him a:

    6.00 - Content
    5.00 - Presentation
    3.00 - Research
    4.67 - Overall
     
  6. badrobot

    badrobot Senior Member

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    That's a lame review. It's all about start screen and apps. In the first place, everyone is screaming and whining about the start screen for whatever it is. So really, there is no sense reviewing it. I never set my eyes and mouse on start screen.
     
  7. Mitchell_A

    Mitchell_A Excellent Member

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    I personally loved Windows 8 RTM but am somewhat disappointed in 8.1 from the perspective that I think the average user needs a lot more changed/simplified than what the Release Preview has shown us thus far,

    As for the guys video, it's incomplete on so many levels to the point that it comes across as ignorant.
     
  8. MikeHawthorne

    MikeHawthorne Essential Member
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    Hi

    I haven't tried RTM, but I think there is little chance that this is going to pry me away from Classic Shell.
    I'm guessing I'm going to be using it for a long time.

    I'll update when it goes live but probably the first thing I'll install afterwards is Classic Shell.

    Mike
     
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  9. Henry Wong

    Henry Wong Well-Known Member

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    Just keep an eye out for problems using that Classic shell. Not that it would come from their side of the development, but from Microsoft's side. The one thing this video did point out is the problem with the Classic Shell over lapping the Windows original positioned Start Button.
     
  10. davehc

    davehc Microsoft MVP
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    How do you see that as Microsoft's problem, rather than of Classic Shell - just curious.
     
  11. Henry Wong

    Henry Wong Well-Known Member

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    Looking at it not being flexible for third party software. The "new" start button in 8.1 is kinda fighting with the Classic Shell one. Though this is not a we should completely bash Microsoft thought. Just one of the things that both companies should look into working on. I'm not trying to throw any one company/person under the bus, just the ideal thing, well in my mind, would be to test and try to work with the things that users are most likely to use, and things like Classic Shell is one of them. Backward compatibility I guess you would call it. I know not everything will work perfectly, but seeing as these kind of software are going to be used by many it would be a good idea to see if they could work a little to make it work better with the new OSes.
     
  12. davehc

    davehc Microsoft MVP
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    "Just one of the things that both companies should look into working on."
    That is the reason it went out to OEM guys in the first instance. Remember you are looking at a pre release. By the time of the public release, the software people should have ironed out their individual bugs.
    Maybe not quite in context with this thread, but this was the principal reason for Vista's failure. The software and driver producers mad almost nil effort to examine their own bugs, resulting in a close disaster for Vista.
     
  13. sirloyne

    sirloyne Banned

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    1. The review is all about the Start Screen and apps, because that's where M$ wants you to spend all of your time (and money).

    2. With the search all he did was type in a few program names. Big woop. What I want to know is, can you actually use the search to find files and folders? While XP's search was great, 7's was completely useless. It took forever and didn't find find things.
     
  14. davehc

    davehc Microsoft MVP
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    OK. Just for kicks. I have "Speccy", not a common installation, on my OS. I typed Speccy in the metro start page and it found both instances (The homepage and the program) in a brief moment.
     
  15. sirloyne

    sirloyne Banned

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    Not at all relevant. I asked about files and folders. If I wanted to know the name of an album, to which I only knew 1 of the 3 words in the title, and it was on an external hard drive, which is not monitored by M$'s crappy media player, could I put that 1 word in a search and have any hope of finding it? XP let's me drill down first by letting me pick not just the drive letter, but the folder I want to look in, as well as other things. In a test I put the word "Rubicon" in the search. It took XP roughly 24 seconds to find the album folder "Crossing The Rubicon" in the band folder "Sounds, The" in my main folder called "Music", but 7's search, which is terrible took over 3 minutes. Is 8's "new & improved" search more like XP or 7?
     
    #15 sirloyne, Sep 14, 2013
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2013
  16. davehc

    davehc Microsoft MVP
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    I cannot emulate that, but I do have an album called "Piano". If I type pia in the Metro, I find it. I don't have an external, but maybe another member can help, if you include the External in the indexing, I think it would find it. I use a search engine called "Everything" (even back in Windows 7) It would certainly be able to do it.
    Don't know if this is "relevant". Music is an installed default folder, in windows7/8. In it, is, for example, an album called "Album Art". If I type Album, it finds it in less than a second.
     
  17. nmsuk

    nmsuk Windows Forum Admin
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    I'm running windows 8.1 and really don't have any issues with it. The whining about the start screen is now getting boring. Mostly the video is his opinion about stuff.
    Also he's complaining a preview isn't as fast as RTM 8. Well yes as it still contains the debugging code.

    And why's he going on about Apps which are not the OS. The microsoft treating it's users as morons. After doing tech support for 20 years. I have to agree the average user is a damned moron.
     
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  18. MikeHawthorne

    MikeHawthorne Essential Member
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    Hi

    When it comes to searching I have stuck with Agent Ransack for a long time.
    Partly I suppose just because I'm used to it, but it does work really well.

    Recently I ran a search for any document on my computer that had any reference to Registration in it anyplace.

    I tend to originally place these where ever it seems convenient at the time,

    I was able to quickly compile a folder that had every document on my computer that had registration information in it.

    I could easily search my over a thousand music files and find any that had the work Blackbird in the titles.
    I have quite a few, and copy them all to the same location if I wanted to.

    Even if some of them weren't in my music folder, I could tell it to search everyplace and look for the .mp3 extension along with the word Blackbird.

    It just seems easier to use then the Windows search engine and it shows up on the right click menu.
    It will start the search from whatever location you right click on automaticly so it's really quick and easy.

    Mike

    PS. I won't be updating until I read that it is completely compatible with Classic Shell or Start 8.
     
  19. bassfisher6522

    bassfisher6522 Essential Member

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    FYI.....both Classic Shell and Start8 are infact compatible with 8.1.
     
  20. Mitchell_A

    Mitchell_A Excellent Member

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    And that's the good thing about Windows is that it has always allowed for extension third party customization and functionality additions.
    Can you imagine if Windows was more like say, iOS? Obviously not a fair comparison (desktop vs. mobile OS) but the point being everyone would hate it to the point that the developers would have to change it to comply with people's requests, otherwise people simply wouldn't use it.

    Your adaptation to search in Windows 8 is perfectly suitable for a user such as yourself. Me on the other hand, I found the built in search function in Windows 8 RTM was excellent (although 95% of users have no clue how to use it). The "improved" functionality in 8.1 is a step backward in my opinion. For example, you used to be able to start a search within any app from the start screen by typing in your query and then selecting the app from the list under the search box. Now you have to be within the app and you have to specifically select the app from a drop down. To further complicate issue, some developers have put a search button within the app itself and it CAN NOT be accessed from the Windows 8 search function. I like Windows 8, as well as 8.1 but I simply can not wait to see what Microsoft has in store for whatever comes next.
     

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