How would you rate Windows 7

catilley1092

Extraordinary Member
Neemobeer, I agree that TRIM in itself needs no space to operate, yet there's something about these drives, when filled to a certain point (which may vary by source, even among SSD OEM's), performance goes downhill, that I know for sure. Maybe I've been reading at the wrong sites, many says that once the drive gets 'too full' (again, that varies by brand, some has 'hidden blocks') that TRIM can't do it's job effectively. Maybe this is confused with garbage collection (GC), which are two different services.

Some of the same sources also says that TRIM, as you've stated, marks data as invalid, yet recovery is still possible of some, especially on an overloaded SSD. I've used Recuva as a test to recover deleted data on these & have successfully recovered items weeks after deletion, performed by CCleaner prior to every shutdown. This is why on my three best computers, which are also used to make transactions, after repeated slow benchmarks across two days, will image the SSD (also performed weekly), secure erase then restore image, regardless if SATA-3 or NVMe SSD, performance increases. This I perform yearly (or when performance drops) & am not concerned about wearing, because the good models are tougher than spinners anyway, am on my oldest at the moment, a 128GB Crucial m4 purchased in 2012, still with 98% lifespan left, if SMART data is to be trusted, the same data shows the drive has been used only 4 months & 3 days.:)

Point being, if TRIM (& GC) does it's thing as supposed to, one wouldn't have to perform an SE to regain performance, especially on one in particular that uses less than 20% of available space (this one has since been upgraded to W10). Have used every trick was told on their forums, logged out & left running for 10-12 hours, booted into the UEFI or BIOS with only the power cable attached for the same amount of time (they say it forces an extended GC). Yet it seems like nothing cleans up the drives & restores lost performance like a SE does, have the latest Parted Magic, now needed for NVMe SSD's.

I've ran the small test that's supposed to show that TRIM is working, and checked via cmd that it's enabled, for the most part am satisfied. It's just that on the few smaller models with a higher percentage of data stored, I have to SE more often, as I don't believe TRIM is doing it's thing, or a combination of that & GC isn't as it should be. My drivers are usually always the latest available, in the proper AHCI mode, and in the case of a NVMe model, have the latest driver installed. Overall, I spend more time maintaining my computer collection than everything else I do in life combined, am always upgrading, tweaking, doing something to boost performance in some way. Just ordered a 256GB Samsung 850 Pro that's on promo at $109.99 at B&H Audio-Video (same price on Newegg/Amazon at this time), have zero idea where it's going at the moment, yet the one removed will be installed where needed the most, just as I do with GPU's when buying a new model. Two upgrades with one purchase. When one has a collection of 9 PC's alone (5 self-built), not to include half a dozen notebooks, prioritizing hardware is critical.

Of course, this is with Windows 7, if I pull the SSD & connect to a W10 (or 8.1) powered computer via eSATA port & run the manual TRIM a couple of times from the defrag window, this make a difference, cannot recover data afterwards. Nor on a Linux install, where TRIM has to be manually tweaked for best results, rather than the default weekly 'cron job' & there's a Terminal option, same function as cmd, where one can manually run it at anytime (sudo fstrim -v /) & the same for the /home partition if on the SSD by sudo fstrim -v /home. This is very effective & benchmarks before & after shows a difference. Unfortunately, as far as I know, there's no way to force this on Windows 7, other than stated above by removal & ran on a later OS manually, and really the only 'negative' I have in regards to the OS.

Maybe this is another one of those areas where a true SP2 could had made a difference, by the inclusion of the trimming feature for SSD's in the defrag option. Yet Microsoft was h*** bent on pouring cash (from W7 & Office 2010 sales) into a bottomless pit with W8 & later, 8.1, had they been spending as though a drunken sailor over Vista with profits from XP, would had been bankrupt before the W7 release. Earlier & later OS's did include new features with most every SP, although with W7, wasn't a lot added for most users, rather a repackage of previous updates for faster clean installs, as well as the pseudo SP2. Of course in the big picture, this takes nothing away from Windows 7, the first to have native support for SSD's, as well as other features, the greatest OS Microsoft ever released in the opinion of many:)

Cat
 


nmsuk

Windows Forum Admin
Staff member
Premium Supporter
Another reason why windows 10 is superior compared to windows 7 as trim is supported fully as is wear levelling.
 


Neemobeer

Windows Forum Team
Staff member
Yes when a SSD is near capacity it has to spend more time consolidating partially filled blocks this can degrade write performance..
 


catilley1092

Extraordinary Member
Yes when a SSD is near capacity it has to spend more time consolidating partially filled blocks this can degrade write performance..
That's why I've been replacing 1st gen smaller models on some of my better computers & installing these where needed the most, this gives me what's needed to keep both new/important machines lots of space. Plus at the same time, upgrade the ones used less often, these are unlikely to be close to filled anyway, as I often run portable software stashed in the Downloads folder of the Data partition on a spinner.

In fact, with this last purchase, the mission will be nearly accomplished, still may need a low cost 60GB model for this one, can then free another 25GB for Windows 7, have seen a few such models as low as $34.99 on promo (Newegg). While these has a lower read/write rate measured in MB/sec, on a SATA-2 machine, won't be able to tell a difference.

Another reason why windows 10 is superior compared to windows 7 as trim is supported fully as is wear levelling.
Yes, I figured that W10 was superior in some ways, as was 8.1, few gives credit to it's excellent power management, which is better than that of Windows 7. AV/AM scans takes slightly less time on 8.1, although nearly doubles on W10, regardless of what type of hardware being ran on. Seems that it should be the opposite, an improvement to that of 8.1, Update 1. Plus the latest Fall Creator's Update (1709) doesn't install properly on three of my computers, as well as those of others, one straight out of the box after updating last week. Seems like Lenovo would had done that before leaving the warehouse, was in their possession no less 4-5 months before shipment, according to one document in the retail box, plus another stamped on the box, hidden under the shipping label, I presume for inventory control. These OEM's has enormous resources, the least they could had done would be like stores such as Best Buy when selling W7 computers as W8 ones in 2012 simply by deploying new drive images, doesn't take long to deploy in large batches, that's part of what vPro can be used for.

BTW, I advised my close relative to call Lenovo and demand service within 24 hours or issue a RMA, they did neither in the timeframe, so she had to resort to her credit card protection, her payment was credited back as soon as the tracking number shown acceptance on the FedEx site. Lenovo stalled and lost a customer for life. Their excuse....she called the wrong number, which was the same one on the receipt she scanned & sent to her card issuer that was supposed to be if there were issues. Visa sided with her in under an hour, while I was still repackaging the notebook. I suppose they sided with her because if they'd lie once, would do so again. Anything to stall a refund or in-home reconfiguration, the latter of which she was hoping for. Lenovo has a major IT call & dispatch center less than 30 minutes away.

While W10 has it's perks, not w/out pitfalls, an owner of a brand new computer shouldn't have to reconfigure most every app installed out of the box for a feature upgrade. Microsoft should mandate that new units shipped out of large OEM partners warehouses have the latest version of Windows 10 installed & ready for customer to update & use after fully charging battery (if applicable). Few new users, especially to the technology involved, will be able to reconfigure a fingerprint reader & other software with overly complicated instructions. This will be the cause of many returned devices that'll then have to be resold as open box at a price reduction (it's illegal to resale a pre-owned device of any type as new). Things weren't that way with Windows 7, tens of millions still are owners of their pre-SP1 devices & are being used to this day.

As a W10 Pro user, I can defer updates for up to a year, Home users has to be more creative and make their network (& every other connected to) a metered one at boot, after applying all important updates to the installed OS. As well as image before & after updates, in addition to weekly images, for protection against Malware, Ransomware & failures, to include that of hardware. Maybe prior to the next W10 upgrade, Microsoft will have the bugs worked out of 1709. The really odd thing was, I had been a participant in the Insider's Program through final release with few minor issues, once converted to GA, the issues began with random Start menu lockups, on both AMD & Intel hardware the same day, so that leaves only one party to point the finger at.o_O

Bottom line in regards to W10, the more I run it, the more attractive a life of running Linux Mint seems to be after EOL of Windows 7 & 8.1, hopefully at least half of the Windows 7 & 8.1 users who stated a loud NO to W10 in 2015 will maintain that stance when the time comes. Sure will make life easier of those like myself who performs work on computers for others, and for them also. My belief is that Microsoft are still trying to push what was once termed a service pack as an OS upgrade, and it's simply not working for everyone, as evidenced in the W10 section of this forum. There were no widespread issues with SP1 for W7, nor the pseudo SP2, as long as the needed updates were first installed, or better yet, slipstreamed into reinstall media.

Note that the main reason why I run W10 is because I have to work on these computers on demand, so have to keep somewhat up to date. Maybe I can find one that'll take the 1709 update, my best didn't because of TPM software, which is under two years old. What freaking good is a TPM w/out software to manage it? Of course, removal of that software wouldn't had guaranteed a successful update, I simply rejected removal w/out a replacement & so far, ASUS hasn't shipped updated Infineon TPM software to end users. At this point, am not looking for a UEFI update for a Z97 MB either, on their forum, was stated if there were updates, would be bundled in one, although the TPM module was a separate purchase a couple of months after build.

Good thing there's a Linux section here, traffic will likely be picking up, if not already.

I suppose many others will run Windows 7 'until the wheels fall off'.;)

Cat
 


Neemobeer

Windows Forum Team
Staff member
It's doubtful, Windows 10 accounts for about 42% of all Windows Windows 7 is at 42% also. A large chunk of those Windows 7 numbers is going to be company owned devices since a migration process can take a lot of planning and the roll-out process can be be very involved. I've built-out most of the our companies 7 to 10 migration just waiting for the higher ups to come out with a project roll-out to cut over
 


Windows 7 is one of the best and secured updated of Microsoft till now. It is user-friendly, easy to install secured and processing speed is very fast. I would rate it at the top of Microsoft updated.
 


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