If the Start button returns with Blue, will you use it?

Discussion in 'Windows 8 Help and Support' started by kemical, Apr 20, 2013.

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Will you use the Start Button?

Poll closed May 20, 2013.
  1. Yes! I want the Button back where it should be.

    3 vote(s)
    25.0%
  2. No! I like windows 8 the way it is.

    3 vote(s)
    25.0%
  3. Not bothered either way..

    6 vote(s)
    50.0%
  1. Trouble

    Trouble Noob Whisperer

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    You are absolutely correct Joe it will not satisfy a lot of people as it will not contain a legacy start menu, but right clicking the new "Start Button" (probably should come up with another name for it) will provide a "Shutdown" and "Restart" option as part of the new "Power Users" menu. So I guess that is some progress at least.
     
  2. Ralph Bromley

    Ralph Bromley Honorable Member

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    This is basically why Windows 8.1 wont feature a proper start menu:

    Normal users who hate Metro:Give us our start button!
    Microsoft (holding ears): Lalalalalala! Im not listening!

    Yeah I am calling it, nice way to listen to your customers Microsoft, next time why not smash all their computers and force them to buy touchscreens.
    That will go so well with public relations I am sure :D
     
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  3. landerio

    landerio Member

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    Yes, absolutely. It's just the start button not real Classic Start Menu. Thought I have installed the preview edition, i got the start menu back with "start menu 8". I hate windows 8, so I would never paid for it.
     
  4. goodintentions

    goodintentions Active Member

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    I've always find the start menu outcry a comical non-issue.

    Technology changes over time. Those who don't adapt will go the way of the dinosaur. The fact is if you are a real productive person then you will make the best of whatever comes your way. If there is no start menu then learn to use the search function. In fact, the lack of a start menu has forced me to use the search function all the time now, and it is much much much faster to launch applications with the search menu than having to waddle through the start menu like I did before.

    Reminds me of all the excuses I heard from students when I was a TA in grad school when they got bad scores. I always just smiled slightly and send them on their way, but what I really wanted to say every time I heard these excuses was "if you had studied, you would have done well on the exam regardless of if there were people talking outside, it was raining outside, or whatever".

    No offense to people who can't live without the start menu. But if you were a real productive person you would have made the best of the new OS instead of whining about the start menu. I'm doing just fine without it. Plenty of people are doing just fine without it. Give the search function a chance.
     
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  5. Ralph Bromley

    Ralph Bromley Honorable Member

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    Again this kind of mindset for me is completely ludicrous.
    Yes operating systems change and adapt, if anyone wos used to that its me who uses linux and there are changes on it all the time.
    Its the fact that change is being forced on people is where the true issue lays.
    If you dont like metro but still want windows 8 tough, thats microsofts mindset.
    I dont see why in the setup you cant choose between the classic session and metro, we do it all the time in linux why cant windows do it?
    Once again this is where I say another operating system is better here, in linux you dont have to go fully out of your way to make it look the way you want it.
    Windows 8? nah third party tools only, what a load.
     
  6. goodintentions

    goodintentions Active Member

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    Here's the thing, though. Windows 8 without metro and having a start menu is pretty much windows 7.

    Because people don't change unless they are forced to.

    Take myself, for example. When xp came out, I got xp and very quickly set it back to 98 mode. I stuck with classic mode all the way to 7. It was only 8 when I was forced to use the search function did I realize how much time I had previously been wasting by insisting on using classic everything.

    If people don't like windows 8, the solution is simple. Downgrade to windows 7. Or better yet, spend about 60 seconds to install classic shell and another 40 seconds to adjust the registry to kill the metro screen forever. Then, it is pretty much identical to windows 7.

    But instead of helping themselves, people choose to whine about it.

    If you think Linux is better, then go for it. I believe in democracy and freedom. You can choose whatever you want.

    I'm a chevy person. All my cars have always been chevy. Should I go on Honda forums and whine about the things I don't like about Honda cars?

    And before you blame the lack of pc sales on windows 8, I'm going to save you the embarrassment and point out that pc sales took a nose dive long before 8 was even mentioned by MS. It was clear that as popular as windows 7 was, people were buying PC's a lot less. The market and households became super-saturated with tablets.

    See, that's what I don't get. Start menu whiners demand that MS makes windows 8 exactly like windows 7. They say that if only MS makes 8 exactly like 7 then PC sales would skyrocket again. But reality is PC sales were already plummeting long before 8 came out. The solution to the plummeting windows 7 PC sales was for MS to come out with another version of windows 7? I don't get this logic. How does this even make sense?
     
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  7. Ralph Bromley

    Ralph Bromley Honorable Member

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    No I am aware of failing PC sales and the reasoning for it.
    As for Windows 7 I think it should still have been an option, let adapters make a choice.
    But since windows 8 is being forced on the majority of new machines its an issue that is big for many.
    Like my father who is used to things being a certain way.
    Its all change for the sake of change, sure the market for tablets is growing but many are not willing to adapt to that market.
    They want to use what they have and when what you have doesnt support a touchscreen then it becomes an issue when you face how bad metro is with a traditional setup.
    Then it seems Microsoft want to take away your choice by not selling copies of windows 7 in stores.
    Since no one know about alternatives like linux they are left in a confusing world that seems more geared for tablets and smart phones.
    And once again yes things are headed that way, in few years time we can see devices who can cross from mobile device to a more traditional desktop interface by plugging it into your tv screen,.
    Heck this is why Ubuntus edge project is actually a good idea.
    There is such a gap between mobile and the desktop right now, if we can get something that can do all in the same device then fine but make it affordable.
    But unless you are buying android cheap tablets are a little hard to come by and none of them rerally can compete with a full functioning desktop machine.
    But right now theree is a gap and its a shame microsoft is more interested in trying to beat apple and android that its being blind to the audience that gave it all the money it has...
    The desktop user and frankly when you do that you make linux look good, or apple for that matter.
     
  8. goodintentions

    goodintentions Active Member

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    I just simply don't agree that metro isn't for the desktop. I use both the desktop environment and metro on my desktop machine. I find both very easy to use on my desktop.

    My day job is actually a field engineer. And I use a windows 8 tablet/laptop hybrid while I'm out and about.

    The introduction of the metro interface running along side by side with the desktop environment is a godsend to someone like me. I've found my work flow to be a lot faster and more efficient regardless of where I'm at: out in the field, inspecting, or in the office.

    I see a lot of people going around carrying their laptops that weigh a ton, a company issued ipad, and when they get back into the office they put all of that aside and use their desktops. Why? People's lives are a lot easier if they have one unifying interface to work across all platforms and regardless of where they are.

    This is the reason why google's latest android update for tablets made my tablet look like a giant phone. When it first came out, I thought people would be whining and moaning about it. But when I looked at tech reviews and online forums, most people were actually praising the unification of tablet and phone in android.

    This is MS's aim, I think. They are trying to get people to get use to having a unifying interface for all their machines.

    Their biggest stumbling block right now is 8 came out a little late. Here is a picture I took a couple months ago when I visited my sister's home. A family of 5.

    [​IMG]

    Those are asus transformer infinities (tf700). They also got an i7 desktop and an i7 laptop in the house. And this is exactly why windows 8 platform isn't selling very well. The market and households are already saturated with iOS and android devices. Here are a couple pictures I took of the transformer infinities in best buy yesterday. Notice the prices.

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    The model displayed in best buy is the 32gig model. The ones my sister's family has are 64 gig model. And they bought them last year, so the price was even higher than what they are now. And think of all the android apps they have bought. They're not going to dump their android devices to get windows 8.

    MS really flopped on this one by coming out with 8 way too late. I know for a fact that had 8 came out just 1 year earlier all of those super expensive tablet/laptop hybrids that my sister and her husband bought would have been windows 8 devices. Why? Because her husband was a windows phone person before I converted him to android. He was a die hard windows person. The $5k they spent on all those android tablets would have gone to windows tablets had they that option.
     
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  9. Ralph Bromley

    Ralph Bromley Honorable Member

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    No MS flopped by trying to have the same UI across the platforms, I use a desktop not a flippin phone.
    And no I will contest windows 8 is terrible as a desktop OS.
     
  10. goodintentions

    goodintentions Active Member

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    Why? The desktop is still there. When I work in my office or at home, I spend most of my time in the desktop. You sound like the desktop is gone.
     
  11. Ralph Bromley

    Ralph Bromley Honorable Member

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    No its not gone, just tucked away and almost forgotten.
    This is where the gap really is at, the desktop and metro are two entirely different things and work nothing alike.
     
  12. goodintentions

    goodintentions Active Member

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    How is it tucked away and forgotten? All I do is type visual studio and it pops up. Or I type photoshop and it comes up.

    I work regularly with autocad, photoshop, visual studio, microstation, and a whole host of other heavy duty desktop programs. Everything works fine for me.
     
  13. Ralph Bromley

    Ralph Bromley Honorable Member

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    But you ignore all the side scrolling you have to do and the way you have to open the charms bar when using a mouse, you know that funny looking thing with the two buttons on top?
    Now luckily this is addressed in 8.1 but metro as an apps menu is still very lacking, and there is still a gap between desktop app and metro app.
    Not to mention how much of it is a pain to close off apps in win8 when using a mouse.
    Multitasking is a lot to be desired in windows 8, even android does it better.
    Heck maybe it is a good thing Microsft is faltering, when android can actually serve as a better desktop OS you know you did wrong.
    And yes I have used android in a VM, it actually works a lot better as a desktop OS and its not even meant for that kind of market.
    Sure android has side scrolling but android isnt being pushed into the desktop market now is it?
     
  14. Sonny

    Sonny Fantastic Member

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    First I agree with goodintentions, I don't know what side scrolling you are talking about and second I find no pain in closing off apps in Win8. I find it easier than working with Win 7 and the traditional start button. No complaints from me with Win 8 or Win 8.1.
     
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  15. goodintentions

    goodintentions Active Member

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    Haha, this is getting funnier and funnier by the moment. I love the charms bar. I love the hot corners. On my desktop, all I do is move my mouse over to the upper right hand corner, down to the search button, and press. And voila search. This is much faster and more efficient than the cascading start menu.

    Why can't there be both, which is what 8 is designed to do? There are desktop apps (heavy duty ones at that) that I use regularly, like right now, and there are metro apps that I also like to use from time to time on my desktop and almost all the time on my hybrid.

    Again, your rhetoric make it sound like the desktop is gone for good and someone is holding a gun to your head forcing you to work in metro environment.

    Again, this applies only to metro apps. It's pretty much the same as before with desktop apps. I don't know where the anger is coming from.

    How so? I currently have photoshop, 2 visual studio instances, gimp, MS word, and MS excel open right now. I'm using them all parallel to each other.

    Did MS send a hitman to force you to work only in metro?

    Go ahead and use android for desktop if you want. As an experiment, I tried that for a couple months. You should, too.

    My jedi power tells me your words have a lot of anger. Kinda reminds me of the following folks, which is why I think the start menu thing is comical.

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    Most of us don't take these folks seriously because of their overzealous rhetoric. You know, kinda like yours.

    Right now, you have a lot of anger. So, you try to paint a false picture of 8 to further support your anger. Look back at your reasons for not liking 8.

    -Less multi-tasking than android. This is not even close to being true. Again, I currently have photoshop, 2 visual studios, gimp, word, and excel opened working parallel to each other.

    -Keep insisting that you are somehow forced to work in metro. Again, not even close to being true. I'm in the desktop environment right now. It hasn't gone anywhere.

    -Pain to close apps. How so? In the desktop environment, you press on that red box with an x in it. In metro, you slide from top to bottom. How's either of these a pain?

    -Charms bar looks funny. Actually, I think it's the best thing MS managed to come up with. It's right there when you want it and it's gone when you don't need it. Works for tablet and works for desktop.

    You really should try harder to make a case against 8 than throwing out random tea-party rhetoric.
     
  16. goodintentions

    goodintentions Active Member

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    kemical likes this.
  17. kemical

    kemical Windows Forum Admin
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    People on the whole generally hate change even if it's for the better..
     
  18. Ralph Bromley

    Ralph Bromley Honorable Member

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    Well the hot corners are fine, the problem here is the charms bar as it should activate from wherever I point my mouse on the screen and not just one random corner.
    If the charms bar worked more like a dock I think it would be better

    Well yes there is both on windows 8, that I am not contesting.
    I just wish there was less of a gap between the two, if Microsoft wants an all in one approach its doing a bad job here.

    Yes and that someone is microsoft, they want windows 7 gone and windows 8 in and when windows 8 isnt doing a good job at filling in the gaps between traditional desktops and the touchscreen.

    Yeah but Metro apps dont behave that good compared to how apps work on other mobile UI's like android
    There certainly is room for improvement here.

    I meant multitasking metro apps, not desktop apps.

    Yes its called windows 8, a lot of users dont like metro and dont want to use it at all.

    Well currently the best way to do this is via virtualbox.
    And yes I have tried it and i do feel it can work if google ports it over.
    The issue with android is that most apps are for arm and its architecture, and since desktops dont use arm well theres a problem.

    Metro and its slide motions dont translate well to a mouse.
    There is a lot of un needed mouse dragging involved.
     
  19. Mitchell_A

    Mitchell_A Excellent Member

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    goodintentions nailed this one on the head. People hate any kind of change, it's just human nature. But of course change drives innovation which fuels market competition.
     
  20. Ralph Bromley

    Ralph Bromley Honorable Member

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    This I agree with, but sometimes risk doesnt pay off as seen with windows 8
     

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