Is the Windows fix infallible?

Discussion in 'Windows 7 Help and Support' started by johnatanasoff, Jan 29, 2015.

  1. johnatanasoff

    johnatanasoff Active Member

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    I have many apps installed in D:\ because of lack of space in my C:\ "SSD"

    Advantage: If there is a critical error or BSOD the data is there and i don't loose it as it can happen to C:\ and has happened to me before.

    Disadvantage: Some things, don't work exactly the same as when they are in C:\. And some things must be in C:\ in order to work.

    When there are system errors i select windows from a bootable usb and run the fix. So far has worked fine and fixes problems.

    1st Question: Is the fix i've been running infallible?
    Or is there some software that always recovers windows no matter how critical the error or BSOD is. It sucks when you configure everything and install large plugins in Cubase and then you have to reconfigure everything again. Is there some way to avoid this?


    2nd Question: Some startup apps that i selected to run minimized by going to properties are not minimizing at startup. They are all installed in D:\ and connects to the "Disadvantage" i mentioned above
     
  2. BIGBEARJEDI

    BIGBEARJEDI Honorable Member
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    Perhaps. SSDs themselves are new technology and have limited life compared to traditional mechanical drives.

    Installing APPS into a second partition or a second hard drive in and of itself is certainly not the recommended configuration for Windows. Many corporate configs do it this way which I personally have never liked. If you experience a catastrophic drive failure when you have APPS installed on a D: partition of same physical drive, there goes most of your programs, and recreating that D: partition onto a replacement hard drive is no walk in the park. Image Cloning software may help but doesn't work for 100% of all computer hardware configs.

    Installing onto a D: partition which exists on a 2nd physical drive is much better, since you can Image Clone that entire 2nd hard drive. In case of a catastrophic failure on that 2nd physical drive, reconstruction involves replacing the 2nd physical drive with a new drive, and Image Cloning your backup image from external media such as USB external hard drive or a network server.
    However, if your Primary or 1st physical hard drive has a catastrophic failure, that's where your Windows resides, this can be trickier. Replacement of the 1st physical hard drive (SSD in your setup), can produce unpredictable results. Since this is the Windows drive, reimaging from an Image Clone backup may not always work. I don't know percentages with SSD drives as the Windows boot drive, as I don't have any to work with and have never tested. However, with a mechanical drive as your Windows boot drive, it's up around 98% or so. This of course depends on the quality of the Image Cloning software you use. None of them are 100%. :(

    You can begin to see the flaw in this when you have to setup 400 laptops for use by sales reps, execs, and field engineers. The 2% that have issues are 8 employees that can cause you considerable grief, especially if one of them happens to be the Company CEO....

    This technique was wildly popular back in the 80s and 90s, but caused tremendous problems for IT Techs who had to make it work 100% of the time. It was rapidly abandoned since it never reached that mark.

    The solution turned out to be RAID for desktops, and only recently, the availability of dual SATA drives in laptops using dvd-drive-bay configs. I know folks who have employed this solution, and of course in desktops & servers, this approaches 100%. Laptops maybe 99% using dual mechanical drives. Using SSDs as Windows boot drives I have no figures for as I've never done it. There may be companies employing this config for field deployment, but none I'm aware of.

    In your config example, I would consider replacing the 2nd mechanical drive with another SSD drive. If you don't you'd have to keep track of which APPS were installed on C: or D: and the resulting Latency Mismatch would be significant when clicking open an app residing on the D: mechanical drive versus an app installed on the Windows boot drive SSD.

    Perhaps some of the other Forum folks could comment on the "infallibility" of this setup in a non-RAID environment. I would say it's certainly less than 100%. A dual-SSD 2 drive setup running RAID would certainly provide a faster rebuild time (5-10 min.) versus 1-5 days with your setup and use of Image Cloning software if that's your true goal. Even if someone here has done this at 100% on a single desktop or laptop, it's not going to be 100% across multiple hardware platforms in an enterprise situation, both desktop and laptop.

    <<<BIGBEARJEDI>>>
     
    #2 BIGBEARJEDI, Jan 29, 2015
    Last edited: Jan 29, 2015
  3. johnatanasoff

    johnatanasoff Active Member

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    My mistake; i should have mentioned i have two separate hard drives. This is a personal home setup! But i want things fully organized/simplified and not loose data.


    I AM TALKING WINDOWS SYSTEM FILES AND APPLICATIONS ONLY!


    C: (SSD). With Windows 7 and apps i want to run fast such as cubase.
    D: WD Black 1Tb. For everything else including most apps!

    I'm to buy a WD EX4 Personal cloud. Should configure a raid 1, mirror. For max protection.
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    (Please note i'm not a system admin) I'm a power user!
    The main two points im trying to make/enquiry are:

    1- Is it fine to have apps installed in another physical HD as my D:? As i pointed out things sometimes have quirks. As the minimized apps not minimizing at startup. And some things don't work in D: and must be installed in C:

    2- Booting windows and running the fix works great so far. I just want to know if there is a more accurate way? -- Installing windows clean is Anathema, and the last thing i want to do!!!


    Backed up data will be available with my (WD EX4 Personal cloud)! Problems come when a critical error/BSOD happens and i can't boot windows up to fix it. Happened to me before. I lost configuration of programs. Did it suck man! I loose countless days tweaking and perfecting windows to suit my needs and it works amazing!

    Putting application files, libraries from backup; happens in many errors/inconsistencies. Am i correct? And most of the time a clean install is better :)

    --- I want to know if my approach is the most infallible. "To avoid a Windows 7 re-install" and things just working! Or if you know of a better way?


    - System restore messes up things!
    - Putting application files, libraries from backup, messes up things! It did with me! I'f you know a better way please tell me.
    - Booting windows and running the fix works great so far!


    My setup seems fine. In my head; better would be to have everything in a large C: SSD (APPLICATIONS AND WINDOWS SYSTEM FILES)
    and run the windows fix every time i have problems. Large SSD's are expensive. Maybe a large WD black will do just as good.


    Or maybe my setup is fine right now....?
     
  4. BIGBEARJEDI

    BIGBEARJEDI Honorable Member
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    >>>Based on what you've told us; and your random BSODs, I would say it it not.<<<BBJ>>>
     
  5. johnatanasoff

    johnatanasoff Active Member

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    BIGBEARJEDI, thanks a lot for writing back! I appreciate it!


    My mistake; i should have mentioned i have two separate hard drives. This is a personal home setup! But i want things fully organized/simplified and not loose data.
    >>>I understand.<<<


    I AM TALKING WINDOWS SYSTEM FILES AND APPLICATIONS ONLY!


    C: (SSD). With Windows 7 and apps i want to run fast such as cubase.
    D: WD Black 1Tb. For everything else including most apps!
    >>>Thanks; this helps.<<<<

    I'm to buy a WD EX4 Personal cloud. Should configure a raid 1, mirror. For max protection.
    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    (Please note i'm not a system admin) I'm a power user!>>>This seems to be a given.<<<
    The main two points im trying to make/enquiry are:

    1- Is it fine to have apps installed in another physical HD as my D:? As i pointed out things sometimes have quirks. As the minimized apps not minimizing at startup. And some things don't work in D: and must be installed in C:´
    >>>I've already answered this question. I would say"NO";in IT we haven't done this since the late 90s, once newer versions of Windows (Win2k and up) we're able to break the small Windows boot drive partition barrier issue of 4GB. And it doesn't matter whether you're a home user or a corporate user on a network for this to be an issue..<<<

    2- Booting windows and running the fix works great so far. I just want to know if there is a more accurate way? -- Installing windows clean is Anathema, and the last thing i want to do!!!
    >>>Yes, and the best way to do it, it to haveBOTHyour Windows registry hive files, system files, boot files, and APPS all on the same single partition; e.g: the C: drive! In order to accomplish this, you WILL most likely have to do a Windows clean reinstall via Windows Reset or Windows Recovery *either from built-in Recovery Partition or Recovery Discs*<<<


    -- I'll have windows and apps in C:

    Backed up data will be available with my (WD EX4 Personal cloud)! Problems come when a critical error/BSOD happens and i can't boot windows up to fix it. Happened to me before. I lost configuration of programs. Did it suck man! I loose countless days tweaking and perfecting windows to suit my needs and it works amazing!
    >>>That's what RAID systems are for, and if you are familiar with the"Grandfather Principle"I would suggest that your Cloud backup is a good idea. (if not you can Google it or look up on webopedia). You cannot rely on the hardware in your PC to fully protect you; what happens if your PC is stolen, or a victim of a natural disaster such as flood, fire, earthquake, tornado, hurricane, etc.?<<<

    Putting application files, libraries from backup; happens in many errors/inconsistencies. Am i correct? And most of the time a clean install is better
    >>>Yes, for the most part. I stated that in my many years of doing this in both home user and corporate environments, backups are not 100% across all hardware platforms! That's the 2nd time I've said it; and it bears repeating.<<<

    --- I want to know if my approach is the most infallible. "To avoid a Windows 7 re-install" and things just working! Or if you know of a better way?

    >>>I'm not familiar with the term"most infallible".That is an oxymoron, and it's like stating that a woman can be "partially pregnant"; she either is or she isn't. There is a better way, and I've stated it-twice! Keep everything on a single C: drive except data files such as documents, photos, music libraries, video/movie libraries, E-mail, game saves, on the separate physical drive (your WD 1TB D: drive) and or your Cloud account.<<<

    English is not my 1st language. I'm learning all the time! :)

    - System restore messes up things!
    >>>It can, but, not always, it depends once again on your hardware. I have used System Restore to frequently performa 100% effective repair for many Clients. Not so much on custom-built PCs since they aren't rigorously engineered to do this sort of thing. OEM brands such as Dell, HP, Acer/Gateway, etc. often do this quite well.<<<



    - Putting application files, libraries from backup, messes up things! It did with me! I'f you know a better way please tell me.
    >>>Once again, already stated by me and by you! Clean installs of Windows are best; backups via volume snapshots *System Restore*, external hard drives with Cloning software, and things like Windows NT backups are not 100%. And I believe that's what you are really asking me. If this were the case, Data Center staffs would be much smaller than they are if it was as easy as all that. You are searching for a 100% solution in a world where that doesn't exist!<<<



    - Booting windows and running the fix works great so far!
    >>>That's good for you. The fact that you keep getting random BSODs suggests either a badly behaving application or a piece of faulty hardware. If you were to post the Make/Model of your PC, we can help you more. I would suggest that you run complete hardware diagnostics on your PC to rule the hardware side of it out, if you haven't done so already.<<<


    - Cooler Master Silencio 650

    - Intel i7-3770K @ 3.50Ghz

    - Asus P8Z77-V PRO/THUNDERBOLT

    - ocz sata iii 2.5 solid state drive

    - Corsair Hydro Series™ H80 High Performance Liquid CPU


    I don’t have a BSOD for a long time. But after hibernating or sleeping, sometimes I get the “start windows normally” or with repair (screen).

    Will run complete hardware diagnostics! I don’t remember doing it; for a long time.


    My setup seems fine. In my head; better would be to have everything in a large C: SSD (APPLICATIONS AND WINDOWS SYSTEM FILES)
    and run the windows fix every time i have problems. Large SSD's are expensive. Maybe a large WD black will do just as good.
    >>>That's correct! Your solution is a band-aid, and not a fix. Like I said, to prevent lag-time when opening APPS, you'll have to decide whether that's worth spending several hundred dollars on a 2nd SSD of large capacity or not. If not, you should consider replacing the SSD as your Windows C: boot drive and going back to a mechanical hard drive and matching your drive types; perhaps doing a RAID0, RAID 5, OR RAID10. I have no experience with RAID in a non-homogenous 2-drive system; so I cannot tell you if that will work for you or not.<<<

    Or maybe my setup is fine right now....?
    >>>Based on what you've told us; and your random BSODs, I would say it it not.

     
    #5 johnatanasoff, Jan 30, 2015
    Last edited: Jan 30, 2015

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