Windows 7 Loving Windows 7, Still not worth the $

gavin19 said:

Are you serious? That's a very narrow view of what is possible to do with a PC. I have never once had an office suite and I have done a hell of a lot with my PCs. Maybe if you work in an office 9-5 and your view of a PC revolves around Powerpoint presentations, Outlook, and Excel spreadsheets then I can see where you're coming from.

If I do need to open an 'office' file I just use Google docs on the fly

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I wouldn't have said it if I wasn't serious. The only differentiation between software should be a home version and server/enterprise versions. I don't work in a 9-5 office environment, I'm a student, and as a student, an office suite is invaluable. BTW next time you decide to use Google docs, read the terms of use. It may not matter to you, but I'm not going to use any program that gives the provider the right to use my data as they see fit.

And for those that don't want your OS cluttered with all the "Extras" which I dont look at a fully functional office suite as an extra, there definitely should be an option where you could select what you want to have installed by checking or unchecking a box at system set up. Now of course the debate insues, additional software installed or not installed by default? this is where you cant please everyone.

As for all those 30 day trials you see on the likes of Compaq, HP, Dell and the like, How do you think they are able to sell their product at rock bottom prices, other than the fact that they use substandard hardware and manufacture them in 3rd world sweat shops? Thats right, they take money from other companies to load all that trail garbage on your machine. You literally buying an advertisement when you buy an off the shelf PC. If I ever did buy one of the computers, the first thing that gets done is a complete system format when it comes home. You can.t lump a fully fractioning office suite into the same category as the all 30 day trail bloat ware nonsense. Lets also keep in mind that I'm saying they should add it to the OS as a feature whilst still lowering the price, if you don't want r need it, simply select or un-select it during the OS setup.

Yes I know that Microsoft is no different than any other corporation in the world, but as a whole how well are corporations doing right now? Not well if you ask me, maybe it's time for them to start listening to what the customer wants and not what the share holder tell them the customers want!

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Radenight said:

I'm not saying your wrong in any way.. I've just never experienced any of these problems you speak of and I've been using Open Office for at least a year now.. Perhaps I'm just not using it enough to run into any of these problems..

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Yes, you are not using it in a way of which I speak. But for those that are power users, and use many features, such as macros, special formatting, etc. That's where MS Office excels over OpenOffice. For those that are just using it as a simple word processor, or simple presentations, then it should be ok. But also, sBase can't open MS Access databases.

BTW next time you decide to use Google docs, read the terms of use. It may not matter to you, but I'm not going to use any program that gives the provider the right to use my data as they see fit.

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Only thing you have said that I agree with.

also,, I would like to see more modularity in Windows myself. But when speaking of the majority of consumers. They really don't have a clue what they need/want or don't need/want, and this would create more trouble calls than how it is designed now.

also,, I would like to see more modularity in Windows myself. But when speaking of the majority of consumers. They really don't have a clue what they need/want or don't need/want, and this would create more trouble calls than how it is designed now.

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I don't think you're giving the average consumer enough credit. I think they know exactly what they want. They want a machine that turns on, boots up fast, can run application with little start up delay. when it comes to what they "need," Windows installation should be prompting them to see what they use their computer for most often and asking them what features they need. Personally I think the average PC user Knows exactly what they want to do with their computer.

Obviously you have never worked in a Consumer Retail Tech support/Sales Role.

Trust me,, no they don't.

They may know exactly what they want to do with their PC,,,, but they don't know how and expect it to read their minds.
Trust me,,, consumers don't really know.

I should say the average PC consumer. Now,, the slightly more savvy is a different story, but they are the minority.

In the traditional sense of the term retail sales, no I have never been in PC retail sales. But For people I know, when they come to me saying they need a new PC, I first ask them, what their budget is, and what they want to do with their computer. Then I sit down with them usually in front of Newegg.com and we build a machine. When the parts arrive, I include them in the assembly process of the computer so they can learn things like the difference between storage and RAM, How to identify PCIe x16, PCIe x1 and PCI, ATA and SATA how to insert a memory module and why to do it in pairs. How to install a power supply and how to determine how many watts they really need. I also show them how to configure their CMOS and flash their BIOS and explain why.

Now, because I typically do this just for people I know/work with I don't ask for much in return because it's a hobby that I love. Because I'm not a retailer, I'm have no interest in keeping them ignorant. I use the term ignorant because people are not stupid, they just don't know. I find the retailers prey on ignorance so they can sell people sh!t they don't need. and the tech savvy in this business like to keep a divide between themselves and the people who have no PC knowledge. It's like a way for the guy that got beat up in high school to get even (j/k).

Now I do realize that I can't teach everyone everything I know, But when ever I see someone setting themselves up for failure or to be used by a retailer, I try to point them down a path of success. Same goes for trying to get software developers to think in terms of the average, non tech savvy PC user. I refuse to believe that either of these groups are incapable of positive progress.

I use the term ignorant because people are not stupid, they just don't know.

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Trust me,,, For average Joe consumer that is just looking for a PC to play on or whatever,,,, try doing the whole explanations of things and watch the faces glaze over and brains melt into day dream.

Then,,, "Yeah, ok, so How much?" , "Oh forget that, I can get a 299$ Special over there, thanks anyway."
and I will sometimes close with,, "You get what you pay for." ,,, "uh huh"

Every so often we would get one of those people come back with that 299$ special.

I find the retailers prey on ignorance so they can sell people shit they don't need.

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Not all of us,,, but Big Box stores and some small stores,, yes,,, but we don't all do that.
I don't under sell and don't over sell. I refer to the statement above this one.

I am not saying that all consumers are like that,,, but a large majority are, more than you think.
And not all retailers are like you explain either, but yes, they do exist.

First of all, for those who are not tech savvy, you have to put things in terms they can understand. Also, I always assume that people will underestimate what they will attempt to do with the computer they intend to purchase. There is a difference between what a customer wants to do with their machine and what they would like to do if they could. I would make it perfectly clear upfront what the computer they are eyeballing will NOT be capable of.

When I get someone who asks, "Why not go get that $299 special." I'll be frank and tell them, yes, you will be able to surf, check e-mail, write documents, but don't come back upset when junior cant play the latest FPS or MMO that requires 3D graphics hardware.

There are always people who will buy the cheapest option available, and for the most part there is not talking them out of it, especially when they just don't have the money spend.

Lets please not forget that this thread is about what Windows 7 is worth. granted, there is the principal of economics that says that something is only worth what someone is willing to pay, lets not forget that for all intents and purposes, they have no real choice in the matter, and that negates the supply and demand principal.

I believe that windows 7 is not worth the price tag, but then again I'm knowledgeable enough to know what my options are, how to get them and how to use them. the majority of consumers do not, and this is where Microsoft is taking advantage of them. You call it free enterprise, I call it manipulation and predatory business practices. You say buyer be ware, I say we have an obligation to share knowledge with each other. I know the game Microsoft is playing and I fully intend to stand on my soap box and educate everyone willing to learn.

I'm not an anarchist on a rampage hell bent on bringing the mighty Microsoft to it's knees, I'm simply trying to foster a competitive, healthy and knowledgeable field of options for the masses. The only way to do that is to create an environment where Microsoft is at risk of loosing business. Until they are, nothing will change least of all the price tag.

Call me an idealist, I stand up for more than just my own interests, and perhaps thats why I'm not wealthy. But I can sleep at night knowing that today there are people out there that can tell when they are being ripped off that would otherwise be clueless without me giving them a nudge in the right direction.

djarrum said:

I use the term ignorant because people are not stupid, they just don't know.

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No... people in general are stupid.. And the number of people who fall into this category rises when it comes to computers.. I don't see how you can say that people don't know.. These days, with all the resources we have available to us, it's almost impossible (in quite a few areas of the world) to "not know".. In a 3rd world country, yes, they probably don't know.. But in places like North America (for example) they have no excuse for not knowing in my opinion..

Major Consumer Computers have been around for what, 15 years, with them being more available for 9 - 10 years?
Ignorance is the problem. Trust me, I speak in laymen terms and it still goes over their head. Then you have to get technical when they start asking more questions about what you explained, then they just say forget it, I just want it to work and do what I want, but they don't know what that is, or how to get there, and they don't want to, they just know they want it.

A lot of people want to hit the on button and magically know all they want to do and then pretty much do it all for them.
Click Click Click, "I designed a game, woohoo" (yes exaggerating),,, doesn't work that way. But that is what they want.

Tepid said:

Major Consumer Computers have been around for what, 15 years, with them being more available for 9 - 10 years?
Ignorance is the problem. Trust me, I speak in laymen terms and it still goes over their head. Then you have to get technical when they start asking more questions about what you explained, then they just say forget it, I just want it to work and do what I want, but they don't know what that is, or how to get there, and they don't want to, they just know they want it.

A lot of people want to hit the on button and magically know all they want to do and then pretty much do it all for them.
Click Click Click, "I designed a game, woohoo" (yes exaggerating),,, doesn't work that way. But that is what they want.

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Sure is.. And it's very frustrating sometimes.. I mean I believe that everyone deserves a fair chance when it comes to computers but there's a line to be drawn.. And there's a lot of people who cross that line..

i once had a customer like that everything she did was through habit anything new and and she was all like WTF ring ring hi i have a problem can you fix it eventually i told her to pack her PC up in the box it came in and take it back to the shop she go it from when she asked why is that i told her streight your to friggin stupid to own/opperate a PC LOL but thats not the really funny bit she's such a dunce she actually did it, I only found out because a friend works at the shop and rang me peeing himself with laughter knowing full well it was me who told her to do that .... now back on subject

I'd be quite happy to pay $199 for ultimate 7 but i know MS aren't going to do that here in NZ it'll be more like $900 give or take a few bucks. And the thing that stinks the most is we have not had any pre-order deals nor are we elligble for the launch party programe either and the officil line from MSNZ buy it when it comes out or buy a new PC or Laptop and get a cheap upgrade errrrr i don't call a couple of grand a cheap upgrade

keep your money

I'm quite happy with xp and I have no plans to spend money that I work hard for to buy another os ,as i made the mistake of buying Vista ,to all the people who hate xp well they are of no concern to me sure xp's gui is a little dated but it works,I bought xp for $199 when it first came out back in 2001 (9 years ago)now it seems to me M$ wants to release a new os every 2 years ,now I know technology changes pretty fast but get real 9 years between xp an vista what happened did technology stop for all those years.

Well at the price they are asking I'm sure they are going to create another generation of pirates. Someone made a good point earlier in this thread when they said most PC's run around $500 so why should an OS cost almost half that. I love it, but I'm going to have a very hard time coming up with the cash!

@ Kvic i to love XP but it is getting dated and no DX10+ and quite a few new game require Vista as a minimum OS because of this but given a choice i'd rather skip from XP to Win7 and leave vista completly alone

@strgzr your right ofcourse it shouldn't be so damn expensive thats why if it is there'll be alot of pirates once again don't M$ realise that if they make it cheap enough there'll be no need to pirate windows and what they loose in revenue from high prices they'll make up in bulk sales

$99

I'd be happy to pay $99 for a full version of Windows 7 Home Basic. $199 for the full version of Home Premium is just too expensive. and it has features that I really don't care about.

kvic said:

I'm quite happy with xp and I have no plans to spend money that I work hard for to buy another os ,as i made the mistake of buying Vista ,to all the people who hate xp well they are of no concern to me sure xp's gui is a little dated but it works,I bought xp for $199 when it first came out back in 2001 (9 years ago)now it seems to me M$ wants to release a new os every 2 years ,now I know technology changes pretty fast but get real 9 years between xp an vista what happened did technology stop for all those years.

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You say you made the mistake of buying Vista.. I have to ask, have you upgraded your system at all since purchasing Windows XP 9 years ago?

djarrum said:

P.S. $99.95 is a price I had in mind, and I don't mean for the watered down, no frills version either. When the time comes for the next release of windows, offer people the opportunity to hand over their old disks and receive a discount on the new release. Before anyone starts pointing out all the imperfections in my proposal because they don't address bootleggers, let me just say, I don't give a damn about bootleggers.

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That's why I took the opportunity to pay only £60. A great price and so pleased I don't have to shell out the full £150 of which I would not have been happy...

9 years between xp an vista what happened did technology stop for all those years

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No,, MS fell behind on the release of Longhorn due to problems in the beginning with longhorn and side tracked by the development of XP SP2 and then SP3.

XP was never meant to be around this long. They are on a 5 year cycle for all product releases.
The reason for 7 coming out so quickly,, is due to Vista getting the shaft by the BIG OEM's and other third party manufacturers.

They had plenty of time to be ready for Vista, but decided not to be. Vista is a solid system, however,, 7 is better.
7 in my opinion might have been able to be a service pack, but then we don't really know what had to be done to tweak Vista into 7.

Was vista worth upgrading to at the time? Yes, but also required a better system to run it. Still it was worth it.

Is 7 really worth it? Absolutely, is well worth the upgrade.

Radenight said:

You say you made the mistake of buying Vista.. I have to ask, have you upgraded your system at all since purchasing Windows XP 9 years ago?

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Yes a few times now i am running a phenom 2 3 gig,8 gigs of memory 2 ,1 terabyte sata drives on a gigabyte mb and a visiontek 4870x2 video card so yes I think i have enough to run vista .