Windows 7 Loving Windows 7, Still not worth the $

[djarrum]

I have to say, I'm loving Windows 7 Ultimate, I've never gotten such a smooth upgrade first on my machine, and then an equally smooth and event free clean install on my wife's machine. Microsoft finally got it right. Homegroup is probably the greatest thing to ever hit windows since the dancing paper clip!

Here's the thing, as good as it is, it's not worth the price tag. To ask the average consumer/user to shell out the kind of money Microsoft is asking for a feature rich OS/Productivity Suite is outrageous, yet Microsoft complains when they find there preciouse cash cows hacked, cracked, and seeded on every bit torrent tracker from here to Timbuktu. And to think they actually toyed with the idea of making Windows 7 a subscription based licence meaning you would actually have to form over a monthly or annual fee like your paying an effing utility! Glad they didn't get that on BTW!

This is what I think Microsoft should do. Sell one OS distribution at one price, and include the most recent release of Office with it. After all, what are you really going to do without an office suite? And no the majority of people still do not know what OpenOffice.org is.

Allow it to be legally installed on the entire family's computers (Before you say anything, I know they are already doing this), But it should be mainstream.

Become an active participant in the Linux community! Embrace Linux users as a group that may in fact be willing to pay for something like for instance, a commercial window manager or even a commercial implementation of WINE. Just because the platform is open source, doesn't mean your product has to be. For god sakes stop yanking every after market peripheral vendors' "Windows compatibility logo" just because they offer driver support for Linux.

P.S. $99.95 is a price I had in mind, and I don't mean for the watered down, no frills version either. When the time comes for the next release of windows, offer people the opportunity to hand over their old disks and receive a discount on the new release. Before anyone starts pointing out all the imperfections in my proposal because they don't address bootleggers, let me just say, I don't give a damn about bootleggers.

/rant off

 

[Radenight]

Hello and Welcome to Windows7forums..

I have to say.. A very interesting rant you have there.. Some very valid points..

 

[Stevo]

Personally I think Homegroup is a joke and actually hinders what I want to do in my home network, YUK! It is probably the one thing I hate most about 7 and is designed for people with no knowledge of computers.

Secondly open source people are not going to embrace the idea of paying for something so that doesn’t really wash either.

There price point most definitely should be lower though, no doubt about that. When something is over priced that is when people look at alternatives to buying it. They would increase their revenue through volume then and not greed which limits their sales.

If Linux was so great then everyone would be using it. Don’t get me wrong I like Linux to some degree but it has issues and that is why it is not main stream.

If you want a no thrills version get Starter it is cheap and definitely no thrills.

 

[djarrum]

Personally I think Homegroup is a joke and actually hinders what I want to do in my home network, YUK! It is probably the one thing I hate most about 7 and is designed for people with no knowledge of computers.

Yes, you're right this is the audience they aimed it at, but there is also the people like me, who know how to setup a LAN of just about any size but just don't want to have to jump through the hoops to get my two basic home machines talking to each other. I think they hit a home run by making the OS only as complicated as the user wants it to be, whereas in the past people where bombarded with confusing options and for the average joe, they just want the machine to turn on and work.

For nerds like you and I, we like to still have all the options available to get down to the nitty gritty, whilst still enjoying simplicity, where we don't need complexity.

As for Linux, they are heading in the same direction, some distros are aimed at people with little knowledge and some warn novice users to stay away. Linux will never evolve to replace windows, but it will evolve to become a tool that more and more people can use when the job calls for it. Personally, I'm an amateur program writer, studying to be a professional program writer. My goals are more supercomputing oriented thus Linux is my OS of choice for what I need and wouldn't you know it, I don't have to spend a dime on any of the tools I need. Windows 7 is still the default OS when I switch on my machine, but that's only because I haven't taken the time to reconfigure my Linux partition to run my games.

10 years ago, If you walked into Best Buy and asked if a machine could run Linux, you would get blank stares, now more often than not, they will at least know what Linux is, if not how it works. That right there is a sign that Linux is evolving into something bigger than underground geekdome.

 

[stueycaster]

10 years ago, If you walked into Best Buy and asked if a machine could run Linux, you would get blank stares

That happened to me about a year ago. Don't get me to ranting about Best Buy. It isn't pretty.

 

[john3347]

"Modular" is the answer

There are SOOOO many features in Windows that some use and love and some despise and do not use. There seems, to me, to be an easy solution that has been totally ignored in the past (and present). If a user has only one installation of Windows 7, they have no use for Homegroup; those users should be able to easily disable this feature. Many, many of us are the sole user of our computer, we should be able to easily disable ALL multiuser functions on our computer. Many of us record music, movies, etc. with third party software; those who do not use Windows Media Player, should be able to easily disable it. Etc., etc., etc., ..... you get the point!

If Microsoft would make all these controversial features (needed and used by some and a hurdle to smooth computer use by others) easily enabled or disabled it would make the system work well for a hugely larger group of users. Anybody listening, Microsoft???

 

[RAK]

You can actually disable the Homegroups and Libraries. Most of the other items, whilst they might remain resident, can be ignored by resetting your own default programs.

But, from a point of view (mine only, perhaps) I have always thought in the opposite direction. I got involved in a long argument (which I lost!) on the Technet forums on this subject. I think anything that can, should be off by default, and it is our privilige to enable what we wish. In contrast, but by the same argument, whilst they have close similarities, I think, on installation, we should be logged on as the Global Administrator. Again, it should then be our choice to set ourselves up as user/admins and, if we feel it is neccessary, disable the Global Admin with a simple click in the Control Panel/User section, without the necessity of typing in commands or opening hidden features.

 

[djarrum]

The thing is, it's becoming more and more common for households to have more than one PC. Microsoft realizes this, and is trying to incorporate the notion that while each machine is singular, they can share more than just an internet connection. That being said, Home group is a very fast and simple way for the non-tech savvy to setup basic file and printer sharing. Printer sharing is probably the number one goal that most households want to accomplish. After all why buy a printer for every computer if you don't have to.

I didn't intend for this thread to become a debate over Linux vs. Windows. I was intending to focus on the price tag of Windows. There are people out there who are of modest means and just owning a PC is financially daunting, many times the entire PC budget is in the $500 range. So your honestly going to ask these people to pay 60% of the price of their PC on simply an OS? And they wonder why people pirate software? My typical budget for a PC is about $1500-$2000 and I think $300 for an OS is out of line!

Heres a thought. Since Microsoft is attempting to push other product lines such as Media center extenders and their failed attempt at a portable music player known as Zune, how about this.... Every purchase of one of these devices will get you a free copy of Windows 7. Of course this goes against the new corporate model of ensuring that each department within your organization must show it's own profit. this is where Microsoft fails and gets lumped in with all the other corporations, they fail to see the wellbeing of the whole company. Printer companies at least learned from the likes of Gillette and Schick, Give away the printer to sell the ink... This is what Microsoft should learn especially if they are going to get into more than just software.

 

[Radenight]

I think there will always be certain features in Windows that people hate and others love.. It's the same with Linux and Mac as far as that goes.. You just can't please everyone..

 

[djarrum]

I think there will always be certain features in Windows that people hate and others love.. It's the same with Linux and Mac as far as that goes.. You just can't please everyone..

Judgin from the price tag however, it seems that they are more interested in pleasing share holders than they are in pleasing customers. There has to be common ground. In my mind there is one simple equation... quality product + happy customers = happy share holders.

When you have a virtual monopoly of PC operating systems, the balance created by the supply and demand principal of economics gets skewed. Now for those of you who say "But wait, Microsoft successfully defended that they do not have a monopoly on the PC operating system," please once again go to your PC retailer of choice and ask them to offer you a PC with a different operating system. I think you will be met with a lot of blank stares and then walked to the lonely corner of the store where the latest over priced Macs are on display in all their artful yet impractical colors and shapes. you're more likely to get PC advice from a home decorator than a knowledgeable sales rep in this psychedelic, trendy world knows as Mac land.

Sorry My tenancy to drift into the style over substance writing style had led me onto another tangent yet again...

 

[gavin19]

This is what I think Microsoft should do. Sell one OS distribution at one price, and include the most recent release of Office with it. After all, what are you really going to do without an office suite? And no the majority of people still do not know what OpenOffice.org is.

Are you serious? That's a very narrow view of what is possible to do with a PC. I have never once had an office suite and I have done a hell of a lot with my PCs. Maybe if you work in an office 9-5 and your view of a PC revolves around Powerpoint presentations, Outlook, and Excel spreadsheets then I can see where you're coming from.

If I do need to open an 'office' file I just use Google docs on the fly

 

[Radenight]

This is what I think Microsoft should do. Sell one OS distribution at one price, and include the most recent release of Office with it. After all, what are you really going to do without an office suite? And no the majority of people still do not know what OpenOffice.org is.

I have to strongly disagree with this statement.. I can think of a very large number of things you can do without an Office Suite on a PC.. I (and this is just me) don't like ANYTHING but the OS to come with the OS.. If I want an Office Suite I'd rather have the choice of which one I want instead of Microsoft (or any other company) essentially forcing me to use theirs by including it with their OS..

These days there are more then enough alternatives to Microsoft Office.. Both paid and free.. That being said, what is your opinion on Office 2010? I haven't had a chance to use it yet.. Is it any good? The last MS Office I used consistently was Office '03.. I have used Office '07 briefly but not enough to say that I actually use it..

I also want to point out that there will be no Microsoft Office 13 due to superstition..

 

[twdawson]

One of my biggest gripes with things included in with the os, is that when you buy a new PC which i have done in the last few weeks, i was disgusted with how many 30 day trials that came pre installed ranging from office to antivirus.

It took me nearly an hour to get rid of all the crap that i would not install in the first place.

I just want the OS, then i can install what i want.

 

[Radenight]

One of my biggest gripes with things included in with the os, is that when you buy a new PC which i have done in the last few weeks, i was disgusted with how many 30 day trials that came pre installed ranging from office to antivirus.

It took me nearly an hour to get rid of all the crap that i would not install in the first place.

I just want the OS, then i can install what i want.

Exactly! Well put my friend..

 

[john3347]

My Opinion

That being said, what is your opinion on Office 2010? I haven't had a chance to use it yet.. Is it any good? The last MS Office I used consistently was Office '03.. I have used Office '07 briefly but not enough to say that I actually use it..

..

Office 2010, when compared with Office 2007, closely follows (in my personal opinion) the relationship between Vista and Windows 7. There are some new features and some "user experience" improvements, but it is a far cry from fixing anything that was/is "broken" with Office 2007. The ribbon is simply non-intuitive, clumsy, and requires more clicking even for those who memorize where to click.

 

[Tepid]

Ok,, lets start with

pleasing share holders than they are in pleasing customers

This is every single large corporation in every single country on the planet,,, this is not singular to MS.

free copy of Windows 7. Of course this goes against the new corporate model of ensuring that each department within your organization must show it's own profit.

Nope,, Not entirely MS's fault. Blame the Anti-Competitive Lawsuits by Netscape, AOL, other entities and the Wiser than us Justices who forced MS companies to split the departments.

If MS started giving away Win 7 License, Apple would have a conniption fit over anti-competitive practices, even though they are the largest violators of competition control.

I have said this before, I'll say it again.....

If Apple ever goes Software only for Mac OS..... it will cost every bit as much as windows, if not more.

Go buy a mac for around 500$,,, awww,, too bad,, you can't.

 

[Tepid]

BTW,,,, testing OpenOffice for non-power users and finding a very large amount of compatibility problems between MS Office and OpenOffice, that could prevent us from using it as any kind of an alternative.

So, you can talk about OpenOffice all day long. It doesn't change the fact that it is a fully inferior product when matched against MS Office.

Office 07 and 2010 are very solid and very good products.
Yes, you will need to re-learn things. But once you do,, it actually is much more productive.
That is not to say it is perfect, or without nuances, but it is a far cry from Office 03.

Oh and,,,, most home users can get by with Notepad, or Wordpad.

 

[gavin19]

BTW,,,, testing OpenOffice for non-power users and finding a very large amount of compatibility problems between MS Office and OpenOffice, that could prevent us from using it as any kind of an alternative.

So, you can talk about OpenOffice all day long. It doesn't change the fact that it is a fully inferior product when matched against MS Office.

Well it's not inferior product just because it's not fully compatible with MS Office, it just is what it is. Though admittedly it isn't as polished.

Oh and,,,, most home users can get by with Notepad, or Wordpad.

Exactly, most of us can get by without an Office suite at all

 

[Tepid]

Actually,, OpenOffice has many conversion problems that can break documents between the two.
That is a huge issue (deal breaker) between MS Office and OpenOffice.

 

[Radenight]

Actually,, OpenOffice has many conversion problems that can break documents between the two.
That is a huge issue (deal breaker) between MS Office and OpenOffice.

I'm not saying your wrong in any way.. I've just never experienced any of these problems you speak of and I've been using Open Office for at least a year now.. Perhaps I'm just not using it enough to run into any of these problems..