new windows 11 biased

Abu2544

New Member
i honestly believe Microsoft could have done better by allowing most devices at least 10yrs and below to support the new OS and subsequently encourage users to buy new devices. coming from a time where most of the world is recovering from the pandemic its sad that we somehow have to factor an additional cost to experience the new OS given the new hardware requirements, anyway in future its not always about supporting a product for a long time and launching new products with huge demands and expectations, but ensuring that users can be loyal to your product and upgrade without being coerced. #MyThoughts/Opinions
 

Mike

Windows Forum Admin
Staff member
Premium Supporter
Its all about controlling the silicon. Sure there is a security incentive for doing what they are doing by artificially limiting what it can run on, but so is unplugging your router. Then you are safe. Its crazy what they are getting away with. Its just poor choices with 11 and quite frankly I'll probably be on 10 for home and business use for awhile.
 

davehc

Essential Member
Premium Supporter
One wonders what the ms team have been working so hard on over the past years. Observation is that the cosmetic changes, which is all I find, could have been offered as an alternative customisation in Windows 10!
As i have remarked before, I do not quite see what security, mostly concerned with modern CPUs, has to do with an OS.
imho, the leap, for example, to a higher rated TPM , and secure boot, , could also, so easily, have been offered as advice or a customisable alternative - again, in Windows 10.
except, of course, that would not have sold many new computers, in which ms have huge stakes;););););)
 
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Neemobeer

Cyber Security Engineer
Staff member
It mainly boils down to the TPM requirement. TPM 2 offers much better security and unfortunately TPM 1.2 and 2 are not compatible due in part to the types of data they can store. There are a number of features both Azure centric and specific to Windows that do not work on older TPMs and that again is due to the data that needs to be stored and the cryptographic algorithms that are used. An example is that TPM 1.2 only supports SHA-1 for hashing which has been considered weak and not recommended.
 

davehc

Essential Member
Premium Supporter
A Little over my head, I'm afraid. I am you basic, but enthusiastic user.
Only point I make, and I am sure there are many users at my level, is that, for example, I am running the Beta on two old 1,2 Laptops. I have had Nil problems. I will never be updating the software. The thought of "no support" often echoed on forums, does not interest me. I have no reason to need the said support.
Conversely, I have run Windows 10 on a borrowed TPM2 model, with my same old software. Again, no problems
 

Abu2544

New Member
Its all about controlling the silicon. Sure there is a security incentive for doing what they are doing by artificially limiting what it can run on, but so is unplugging your router. Then you are safe. Its crazy what they are getting away with. Its just poor choices with 11 and quite frankly I'll probably be on 10 for home and business use for awhile.
I too will be on 10 as well for a while, this is what monopoly does. Ms has decided this is the way to go and it sucks.
 

Abu2544

New Member
It mainly boils down to the TPM requirement. TPM 2 offers much better security and unfortunately TPM 1.2 and 2 are not compatible due in part to the types of data they can store. There are a number of features both Azure centric and specific to Windows that do not work on older TPMs and that again is due to the data that needs to be stored and the cryptographic algorithms that are used. An example is that TPM 1.2 only supports SHA-1 for hashing which has been considered weak and not recommended.
This requirement was placed to justify the need for users to upgrade to new devices, MS had to come up with a good one and you guessed it, TPM it is. who knows what 12 will be like?
 

Neemobeer

Cyber Security Engineer
Staff member
I personally feel it was a good move, but I'm very biased for more security since that's my career field. Users have and likely will remain the weakest link in security so it's Microsoft being security conscious and responsible for the users sake by going the more secure route. Also it satisfies requirements set forth by governments and orgs for security requirements.
 

Abu2544

New Member
I personally feel it was a good move, but I'm very biased for more security since that's my career field. Users have and likely will remain the weakest link in security so it's Microsoft being security conscious and responsible for the users sake by going the more secure route. Also it satisfies requirements set forth by governments and orgs for security requirements.
I agree with you, we all need to be secure and be confident that our devices are running secure platforms. Well Ms choose this way and we can only wait and see, As u have put it users are most often than not the genesis of system never being 100% secure.
 

ussnorway

Windows Forum Team
Staff member
Premium Supporter
at the end of the day you have little choice in the matter because W10 ends in 2025 and at that point its a case of bend over bitches
 

bochane

Excellent Member
I personally feel it was a good move, but I'm very biased for more security since that's my career field. Users have and likely will remain the weakest link in security so it's Microsoft being security conscious and responsible for the users sake by going the more secure route. Also it satisfies requirements set forth by governments and orgs for security requirements.
That is interessting, so it is not only because of being forced of using the latest hardware that security is enhanced?
 

davehc

Essential Member
Premium Supporter
at the end of the day you have little choice in the matter because W10 ends in 2025 and at that point its a case of bend over bitches
As I said previously. If you are a "normal" sit at home user, and you are satisfied with what Windows 10 can do for you, there is no reason to worry that "support" will end.
If it should be, I will continue to use Windows 10, without said support, and with my own old software. Only thing to be wary of is driver updates, or, possibly updates to old, third part software.
As a private user, I have never had any major virus attack since Windows first came on the scene. Today, I would imagine you have mischievous hackers, only out for their fun, and the more serious ones who, probably, are not much interested in small fry such as me. (hopefully - but there is nothing worth their while on my computers anyway)
But, maybe digressing in this thread, I am curious to know what will happen if you do install Windows 11 in a fully legitimate manner, and then disable the TPM/secure boot. Wiil you then also have a problem booting, or whatever, with Windows 11?:rolleyes::blow:
 

Neemobeer

Cyber Security Engineer
Staff member
If a criminal broke into your house while you were out because you left the door open, stole your identity and left would you also think "no one has ever broken into my house"? Just because you didn't notice doesn't mean it hasn't happened. The same can be true of computers. An out of support computer is like a building with windows and doors left open. Vulnerabilities continue to be discovered yet go unpatched since there is no support and there are plenty of vulnerabilities with an attack vector of (N) Network meaning they can be done remotely and authentication of None which means your system can be exploited simply by visiting a crafted site, opening an email (not attachment). I've even seen crafted image files that exploited a system simply by the operating system rendering the thumbnail of the image. It doesn't stop there even if you think you can just be safe in your software and browsing habits threat actors can embed the exploits in ad's and other ways besides, so you're still not guaranteed to be safe by practicing good online habits. It certainly does help to do some regardless.
 

Neemobeer

Cyber Security Engineer
Staff member
Some more food for thought. Threat actors don't manually target users nor do they care if you think you have nothing of value. You always do have value. Complete identities can sell for as much as $1000 (US) on black markets and the threat actors like to automate the entire process of stealing them.
 

davehc

Essential Member
Premium Supporter
Lol. Could you direct me to one f the buyers. I would gladly sell them my identity forthat sum:ohno::eek::D:up:
 

Abu2544

New Member
Well the point of cyber security seems over whelming and for most users despite being informed will not care the much as long their system is up and running, No system is secure that's sure but at one point MS made everyone believe this would be the last Major OS and only patches and security update will be the order of the day.. well it was just a strategy to recover from a failed Windows 8, given the history of MS, i hope hackers will get to exploit this 11:cool:....how else will 12 be launched?
 

davehc

Essential Member
Premium Supporter
Microsoft have virtually challenged hackes withh the continuing comments on the increased security!
Not forgetting the increasing interest, and number of third party offerings, for cloud saving:eek:

As far as improved security is concerned?
As I view it at the moment, the majority of home users will not, or cannot, upgrade to this astonishing improved security. I.E We have been dumped.:noway::wound::time:
 
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Neemobeer

Cyber Security Engineer
Staff member
Most computers in the last 5 years should work fine or people can buy a cheap $200 computer. It runs well on low end hardware.
 

ussnorway

Windows Forum Team
Staff member
Premium Supporter
Microsoft is getting away with blue murder then it comes to pushing their updates so 'my computer isn't brock and I won't fix it' is no longer a valid option unless you are happy to keep it off the internet so Microsoft can't hack in... you have no choice
 
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