Windows 8.2 Rumors Likely True: Start Menu Returns

Discussion in 'Windows 8 Help and Support' started by Mike, Dec 11, 2013.

  1. catilley1092

    catilley1092 Extraordinary Member

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    And one other thing with XP, you can also easily open something, be it a folder, a link, whatever & be easily attacked by malware. That OS has been retreaded so many times, it's no longer secure to use for transactions.

    I do have one remaining XP install that I use to check the weather when in the kitchen (where it's kept), but wouldn't dare to enter a password on a site, not even my Google password to sync bookmarks. Even though it's reported as fully updated. Linux Mint is installed as a dual boot & come April, it's likely all that will be left on it.

    Around 5-6 years ago, I'd be on the same page, but times has changed & computing has with it. And come April, the bad guys are going to have a field day busting into XP machines that's online. I, for one, won't fall victim to that. Not saying I'll never get attacked by malware, but it won't be from running an unsupported OS.

    Cat
     
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  2. davehc

    davehc Microsoft MVP
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    LOL. Very few of the posts have addressed the thread title, including couple of my own, so I would suggest you are also Way, way off track?
    Maybe, although rather inadequately, Catilley was pointing out that we have moved on with accompanying improvements..
    As I said in a previous thread, I have difficulty understanding why you constantly harass users who are trying to find their way into Windows 8 though a help forum, when, imho, you could be better used in the XP forum, in which you appear to be an expert.
     
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  3. MikeHawthorne

    MikeHawthorne Essential Member
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    "After I began to find my way around, I bought Modern mix (Very, very Cheap). This gives the function of having the Metro Apps."

    I use Modern Mix too, but my point is that you shouldn't have to have 3rd party software to make it work.
    It's supposed to be Windows, that's what it's named.

    Taking away usability isn't moving on to the next big thing, it's going in the wrong direction.
     
  4. davehc

    davehc Microsoft MVP
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    I take your point, Mike.
    But, from my own viewpoint, I do, and have always, used , third party programs to replace nearly all of the built-in functions of Microsoft Windows, so I don't really find it a problem.

    Interesting observation is that if you google back to very old threads, from Vista onwards, you will find a very large number of posts advising the use of the third party classic start menu, in preference to the built in one.
    Folks are weird!
     
  5. MikeHawthorne

    MikeHawthorne Essential Member
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    Well I have to admit that I started using Classic Shell when Windows 7 came out, because it had issues with Windows Explorer and I didn't like the scrolling start menu for the same reason I don't like the one in Windows 8.

    If you have over 100 program icons it's too hard to get to what you want.
    That's when I started using Rocket Dock as well.

    I'm not knocking anyone for using them, I'm just saying that if they did it right you wouldn't have to.
     
  6. kkay

    kkay Well-Known Member

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    I am happy to hear they will do something for those who have desktop computers. I prefer a desktop, and my computer is right under a year old. Win8 was rough figuring out at first. I got the classic shell start button, and that helped a great deal. Win8 ran very well for me. Then I was forced to download Win8.1...that was a harrowing experience. They should not force you to go to a new operating system. It grayed everything out, and I had to make the choice to download 8.1 from the store. That was a big problem. I had several issues after that. It took several hours with a Dell tech to get things working the way it was. Now I am happy with the way 8.1 works. I don't like having to start, and type in my Microsoft password though. I preferred starting with a much simpler password. Besides that, I have liked 8.1...now it should be a better experience for desktop users. The start screen is fine, but it is much harder to me, to use the mouse, and try to find aps, vs the old start, all programs etc...You could go blind scrolling through all the aps to find what you need. Although I welcome a better desktop experience, I am hesitant to change over to another operating system. Why? Because it caused many problems, and days and days worth of work, to get my computer back to full status, with no issues. My warranty will be out, and when the 8.2 comes on line, I will not have tech help this time. Most of it I did by myself, but I had drivers that would fail, and would not install. If they do come out with an 8.2, they should NOT force you to update. I want to know the updates were smooth, before I make that decision. I will also have to have a full mirror of my hard drive before I consider a move to 8.2....I have always had Windows. I enjoy Windows now I have it figured out. I hope when they do come out with 8.2, that they will also make available in their software a way to do a proper back up, to an external hard drive. You should be able to do a mirror image, just basic backups, or computer system settings. I like the metro, but I spend most of my time on the desktop area. Now that I have had this computer for some time, I can say I like Win8, and now 8.1 better than Win 7, and XP. But their next step should be much more thought out, before they make that jump.
    Oh, and while I am thinking of it...Microsoft please make the action center flag turn a color when there is an alert. I had updates that were downloaded, and I did not know it. I was going to put my computer in hibernate, when I noticed classic shell said I had had windows updates that were downloaded. If Windows does updates on it's own, great. But let me know somehow, so I can restart my machine, so they will take effect. A yellow flag can mean attention. A red flag would mean I need to look at the action center right away. I am surprised nobody mentioned this before.
     
    #26 kkay, Dec 21, 2013
    Last edited: Dec 21, 2013
  7. Joe S

    Joe S Excellent Member

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    Well Windows 8 is a bit like Vista in that they had problems and were in a hurry to get it out and didn't do thorough testing. I hope 8.2 fixes some of the bugs that have showed up with 8.1. One thing MS, Apple and the box makers all seem to have missed, computers last longer. 10-15 years ago you got a new PC and in a year or so it was a dog because of the advancements in hardware. Things like chipsets, memory, HD size and speed to name a few. If you bought a top end PC with Windows 7 when it came out it's probably still very good for many users. Power users always want the newest and fastest. I think a new system every 3-4 years is go longer that realistic as in the past.
    Joe
     
  8. kkay

    kkay Well-Known Member

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    I had a laptop with Win7 that was great, until it was almost 3. Then it went downhill. It would have cost too much to fix, so I decided to heck with it, I would go back to a desktop. I am no power user, and I don't need gaming capability. It seems there is a mad rush to the next operating system, and it has not been thought out long enough, before they start to sell it.
     
  9. davehc

    davehc Microsoft MVP
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    Admittedly, I have devoted a lot of time to exploring the possibilities of Windows 8, and its predecessors. But I am always surprised by the loose comment on the "bugs" experienced in Windows 8/8.1.
    Installing from new, I have not experienced any bugs, that I could visualise as serious, either in 8 or 8.1 Maybe I got lucky with my various computers, but I have installed for others, several of whom are no longer young. None have complained and, after a quick run through as to the new navigation involved, most have expressed interest from excitement to "acceptance", of the new interface.
    Not sure about the comment regarding being "forced " to move on to Windows 8.1 I adopted it as soon as it was available, so didn't get the opportunity of having to jump through that hoop(?)
    Ref an earlier comment. My family machines are all Dells, none younger than three years old.
    "You could go blind scrolling through all the aps to find what you need"
    You can, of course, in 8.1, opt for going straight to the desktop, and of opening the modern start screen as a default, rather than the old apps. The Modern screen can be customised to quite a useable extent, by removing and inserting only those apps you use on a daily basis. I have always done this with the earlier OS start menus, so it was no ordeal. Difference is, of course, that you now have a completely open graphical view, instead of the listed text view.
    fwiw I have my action centre turned off, but, before, I do recall that, if I received an important action message, it was superimposed with a red cross? Anyone confirm that?
    For the updates, I get a separate message - right in my face, as it happens! - when I boot up, but, on arrival at the desktop, the update reminder is there.

    P.S. Later.
    Just wanted to add. after my first sentence, that we should distinguish between "bugs" , that is, faults in the OS kernel or script, and things which are associated faults, such as poor drivers. As I understand it, on any OS, Microsoft use, in their installing packs, the latest drivers passed on to them from the equipment manufacturers. They could, I would agree, be more diligent in making sure that these actually work.My practice is to go straight to the computer makers site (Dell, for example) and, regardless of whether or not I have a fully functional computer, I have a quick once over of whatever I find on those pages.
     
    #29 davehc, Dec 22, 2013
    Last edited: Dec 22, 2013
  10. kemical

    kemical Windows Forum Admin
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    I think one of win 8.1 major stumbling blocks was the fact that many 'upgraded' instead of the much preferred custom or clean install. Why Microsoft went down this route I guess was to let everyone have a chance at using it as cheaply as possible. If they had simply spent a bit more cash and let everyone download an iso i think many of those issues would disappear.
    Like David above I installed Windows 8.1 using an iso I'd downloaded from MSDN and it has been running flawlessly. I've also changed a few habits and now tend to let windows take care of itself via it's maintenance regime. I still use Ccleaner but that's about it. (using an SSD I don't need defraggers anymore as 8.1 is highly SSD aware).
    Upgrading just doesn't do this fine os justice and a clean install IMO is the only way to go.
     
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  11. kkay

    kkay Well-Known Member

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    At first I was given a message that an upgrade to WIN8.1 was available. Then a little time went by, and one day I had done a completely shutdown, and rebooted. When my computer loaded, I was given a message saying something about Upgrade to WIN8.1, except everything was grayed out, but that acceptance to go to the store. I could not ignore it. I finally decided I would have to upgrade, as I did not know how to get around the issue. At that time, I thought it was an upgrade, not a totally new operating system. I found out in a hurry, as the download was a long one. If I had known that, I would have backed up everything possible, FIRST. By grayed out, I meant there was no way I could click on my browser, look at email, nothing. If you clicked on them, nothing happened. My computer is less than a year old. It ran well in Win8. As soon as the "update" was installed, the first thing to see was my firewall was not working, which freaked me out. I had Comodo firewall. From there I had several issues to deal with. My browser graphics were messed up, and parts of the screen had black out portions. I did not know it at the time, but it was because my graphics driver needed updating.
    I have to click my action center flag a few times a day, to see if there is a message. Maybe there is a setting I need to use, to actually see a warning, without going over the flag with my mouse.
    I do not know how to use an iso, but if I had to do it over again, I would learn how to use an iso, instead of going to get the upgrade via the store.
     
  12. kemical

    kemical Windows Forum Admin
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    Hi KKay,

    if your win 8.1 install is giving you issues try this:

    Open an admin cmd prompt. (this link tells you how: http://pcsupport.about.com/od/windows-8/a/elevated-command-prompt-windows-8.htm ) and type:
    cleanmgr/sageset:1
    Press enter and you'll see a Disk clean box appear. You'll notice many more checkboxes than the usual default flavour. Tick anything concerned with old installations and windows .old files. then click ok. To actually get it to run you need to type: (again in an admin cmd prompt)
    cleanmgr/sagerun:1
    Press enter and the app will cycle.

    Keep the admin cmd prompt open and once the above has finished type:
    sfc /scannow
    Press enter and await results. If anything is corrupt in the os this will hopefully fix it.
     
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  13. kkay

    kkay Well-Known Member

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    I have the computer running pretty good now. I had to get a Dell tech to help me, and it took her hours to get the mess straightened out. It was mainly driver issues. Once the drivers were updated, things got back to normal. The only issue I have is extra drives, and I have a topic on that here. If you think I still need to do what you mentioned, I will look up how to do that.
     
  14. MikeHawthorne

    MikeHawthorne Essential Member
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    Hi again.

    The problem with that is, it just adds even more programs to the all programs window (500+?).

    My normal XP style Windows start menu has about 50 folders, (still a lot) and because they are alphabetized it's pretty easy to find which of the over 400 icons I want.

    There are many that I will never use, i.e. many programs add web links, uninstall buttons, info links etc. that aren't necessarily ever going to by used.

    But all of these show up on the all programs screen, it's a pain.

    I use rocket dock, (I used it with Windows 7 as well) but it would be great if Widows just included a menu window that served the same function.
    Windows has never really done this. Many people I know just put all their program icons on the desktop.
    Kind of a primitive Metro screen. LOL

    But if you do that you have to click on every icon 3 times to open it. As I said before, I'm Lazy!

    Even cutting it down I really do have about 30 programs that I use all the time, which ones I use during a given time period depends on what I'm doing, if I'm doing video then I use those 6 or 7 buttons that relate to that and I have them all organized together.

    If I'm gaming I use those etc. I don't use them all every day but I don't want to have to go looking for them when I do.
    But mostly I don't need a whole screen of giant icons on my 27" monitor.

    I have my taskbar for things I use when I have other software windows open.
    Like Skype, Agent Ransack, Word, Chrome, File Explorer, Dropbox, the Snipping Tool, Winamp etc.

    I guess my point is that if you are using anything other than the Microsoft apps you have to work from the desktop anyway so why not make it easy.

    I use Modern Mix too, but my point is why should I have to use 3rd party software to have Windows open windows.

    And last as a designer who has worked for years trying to make things easy to use and understand I really take exception to the statement progress isn't making things simpler.

    That's exactly what it is, (remember DOS) we will know that computer have arrived when they are as dependable and simple to use as you refrigerator.

    Mike
     
  15. kkay

    kkay Well-Known Member

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    I should have done what you said before. Recently I found out I did have corrupted files. Kemical, I am doing that cleanup now. Maybe that will fix some other issues I've been having too.
     
  16. kemical

    kemical Windows Forum Admin
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    Let us know how you get on and any issue's just post back.
     
  17. kkay

    kkay Well-Known Member

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    I should have mentioned that I took care of the corrupted files before I did your disk cleanup tip. I rechecked afterwards, and it still shows no corruption thank goodness. I haven't used it enough yet since last night, to see a difference. I should know soon how it worked out. It did not fix the Windows Defender in action center, going straight to System 32 folder. But I decided to uncheck being notified about it. I have ESET NOD32, but the action center still said I have no av installed. The av is running just fine, and I don't know why it doesn't recognize it.
     
  18. Ankit Jaiswal

    Ankit Jaiswal New Member

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    Microsoft didn't announce any such type of news but there are various things you can find here..
     
  19. davehc

    davehc Microsoft MVP
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    Here is an update with some interesting news. It is a translation from Wzor. There could be some errors in the translation, but take it as you read it. I believe it could be reasonably authentic in its contents.

    "Information stated in this article is true! Only false thing is about the size of the update. 3 GB is size of a full Windows 8.1 Update 2 x86 or x64 distribution, not a size of the update.
    As far as I know, update is almost finished, although I don’t have information about that’s new in it. (The other day I’ve saw a live build based on Windows 8.1 with a very interesting "Start" button, but the pictures I’ve taken with Nokia turned out to be bad quality, because environment wasn’t suitable for a photo shoot - the managers of company was running back and forth.)
    It is known that all distributions will get Update 2 which will be delivered similarly as Windows 8.1 Update 1. Windows 8.1 Update 2 will be free for Windows 8.1 Update 1 users but users running Windows 8 will need new keys if they’ll try to do a clean install. Those who will buy computers preloaded with Windows 8.1 Update 2 is expected to get substantial discount when upgrading to Windows 9. It even may be free.
    Those who are running Windows 8.0 will have two options. The first option is to upgrade to Windows 8.1 Update 1 for free and then do upgrade to Windows 8.1 Update 2. The second option is to purchase Windows 8.1 Update 2 from Windows Store.
    At this time I cannot give an exact date of signing of the RTM. Although next week (23 - 27 June) a very significant event is planned inside Microsoft. I'm not sure what will happen, but most likely the first RTM-Escrow build will be signed off.
    In fact, Microsoft has changed the internal procedure of accessing "builds shop". Now every employee within the company who applies for a test receives an "individual build", which is compiled automatically by a special internal local interface. In other words, now employees of test units have no free access to so-called distributions "files in bulk."
    Internal policy changes affected access of remote offices and Microsoft’s representatives in other countries too. In particular, Chinese representative office now has limited access to the "build shop". I know this, because sanctions and restrictions affected Russian representatives too. An auditing of corporate sales is strengthened right now.
    In fact, the most interesting things are going in China, where Microsoft executives are shocked by a series of decisions of the Chinese government. Timing of Windows 9 now depends on how these problems will be solved. Our sources say that Microsoft is panicking about the fate of Windows 9. It’s very likely, that Microsoft will release Windows 9 Enterprise Edition without integration of Microsoft’s cloud services and with the ability to disable "Metro 2.0" interface. This possibility is being actively discussed at Microsoft."
     
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  20. kemical

    kemical Windows Forum Admin
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    Very interesting....
     

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