Insider Preview A perplerxing as well as irritating observation

Discussion in 'Windows 10 Help and Support' started by davidhk129, Oct 30, 2014.

  1. davidhk129

    davidhk129 Senior Member

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    I came across this incidence in another Forum site.
    An OP asked about Win 10 TP Windows Automatic Updates. He asked if he could make it Manual.
    I posted an answer of using registry editor. I also mentioned that it could be done using gpeditor as well.
    Then an moderator came along and copy/pasted a MS announcement about Windows Update is to be automatic and it cannot be changed.
    I asked the mod whether he/she had tried the method I posted before insisting it could not be done.
    I received no reply.
    Then in another thread asking the same question, someone copy/pasted the same MS announcement.
    Then someone else ( not me this time ) came along and posted a reply of using group policy editor to changed it to Manual.
    The same mod marked the copy/pasted MS statement as Answer.
    This mod is not a "new hand".
    I knew of this person since the Vistax64 era. Heck, since the "newsgroup era".

    Why this happened.
    Is it because this person is a MS employee or he/she has something against using registry editor ?
    Or just plain stubborn ?
    Personal preference is absolutely irrelevant and must not be used when performing moderation.
    I just don't get it.

    ** ( For obviously reason, I won't disclose name of the forum and the name of the mod. )
     
  2. davehc

    davehc Microsoft MVP
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    I have a good idea to which forum you refer. But. I think it may have been done with the best of intentions. Microsoft, in view of the fact that this is an early build, and they have invited general feedback, possibly do not want any red herrings, due to manipulation of hidden items in the OS. This obviously includes tampering with the registry. MS do not have the power to stop users doing these things, and it is friendly advice which, apparently, the moderator thought he should pass on.
    There are a couple of other functions, which can be manipulated in the same manner. These, I read, can cause a further build update to be corrupted, resulting in a large amount of false feedback. My opinion only.
     
  3. Drew

    Drew Banned

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    And what about w/out even any consideration for gpeditor or Registry editor this (see screen shot below) was suggested, wonder would he take issue w/ it, as well. Where it should give choice to go Manual but, alas...

    No question here (from or by me) just musing.

    ChWU.JPG
     
  4. Mike

    Mike Windows Forum Admin
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    Best practice is to force it to automatic, especially on preview builds. Whether or not this will change once the final build is in place is unknown. However, if you are talking about editing it out in the registry, versus group policy, in practice it is better to use group policy to control the distribution and method of updating Windows client machines. This is because some organizations with Windows Server host their own WSUS to save on bandwidth and control what updates they want to output to their workstations by pushing out group policy from the server(s). I imagine this capability will not change with the final version of Windows 10.
     
  5. davidhk129

    davidhk129 Senior Member

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    In the same thread, a member posted this afterwards.......
    Image 1.
    Today I saw a reply from the mod. The rely does not address to anyone in particular.......
    Image 2.

    I went to C\Windows\System32\en_US\Licenses\Default\(open my version of Windows)\License, fished out the agreement and here is what is said in the 2 paragraphs.

    How is the software updated? To help your device run more smoothly, the software updates automatically through Windows Update, which cannot be turned off. By using the software, you agree to receive these types of automatic updates without any additional notice, and permit Microsoft to download and install them for you.

    Are there things I’m not allowed to do with the software? Yes. Because the software is licensed, not sold, Microsoft reserves all rights (such as rights under intellectual property laws) not expressly granted in this agreement. In particular, this license does not give you any right to, and you may not:use the software in a live operating environment; use or virtualize features of the software separately; publish, copy, rent, lease, transfer or lend the software; attempt to circumvent technical protection measures in the software, reverse engineer, decompile, or disassemble the software, except if the laws where you live permit this even when our agreement does not. In that case, you may do only what your law allows. When using Internet-based features or Microsoft Family Safety, you may not use those features in any way that could interfere with anyone else’s use of them, or to try to gain access to any service, data, account or network, in an unauthorized manner.
    ............................................end of paragraph...............

    Seems to me anything that has to do with tweaking the registry is considered illegal, according to this mod.
    If so, he/she needs to check the year printed on the calendar.

    Furthermore, "cannot" and "should not" are not the same.
    If the mod wants to persuade users to adhere to the so-called agreement, then say so. Don't say it cannot be done, because it CAN be done.
    We, the users, are used to have the options of Auto or Manual install. To take away the manual option without ever explaining why will only cause the users to find a way to get Manual update option back.
    How many users, among tens of thousands of them perhaps, ever bother to read the long-winded tongue-twisted, legal agreement ?
    How many users, among tens of thousands of them perhaps, ever know there is such a Win 10 TP users agreement ?

    Throwing the "almighty" MS Statement Of " it cannot be done" at our faces without explanation is a lousy way to go.
     
    #5 davidhk129, Oct 30, 2014
    Last edited: Oct 30, 2014
  6. whs

    whs Extraordinary Member

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    I think preventing the 10 preview from being updated would be a mistake. Microsoft puts that out so that they get a maximum of feedback on the stability and functionability of the system. If everybody now works from a different page, that is defeating the purpose.
     
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  7. Trouble

    Trouble Noob Whisperer

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    Agreed. It's a preview, let it run as it is suppose to run.
    Make notes and report what is not working or not performing as expected. Report those as you may or may not see fit but otherwise let the process play out.
    There are probably any number of work arounds (registry edits, policy edits, etc.,) that may impact and alter one thing or another, but I think, conceptually we're suppose to report those things so that they work properly and those work arounds are not needed.
    Those are my thoughts (for what they're worth). It's a nice OS, though not exactly taking my breath away, I'll play with it, as it exists, and continue to hope that by virtue of all our feedback, we'll end up with something resembling the grand product that Microsoft is touting. :pray:
     
  8. davidhk129

    davidhk129 Senior Member

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    Not for a moment have I suggested to prevent Win Preview from being updated.
    1. I just want the Manual option at my disposal and it is apparent that I am not the only one with such sentiment.
    2. MS can achieve the same result by informing us to employ the Auto option with an explanation. No one can be dumb enough to decline an update install. MS does not have to do it the draconian way. Last time I checked, the country I live in is still a free country.
     
    #8 davidhk129, Oct 30, 2014
    Last edited: Oct 30, 2014
  9. whs

    whs Extraordinary Member

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    As soon as you give people options, they will be all over the place. The only option you have is not to use the 10 preview. Nobody forces you.
     
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  10. Mike

    Mike Windows Forum Admin
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    Yes, why would you not want to update something that is inherently test software anyway? If any Windows updates do go through, they will probably be security patches and/or to fix something critical. Last time they dropped the preview versions for Windows 8, a lot of people kept running it unpatched, for whatever reason, and this becomes a security problem when you are dealing with potentially millions of computers.
     
  11. davidhk129

    davidhk129 Senior Member

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    Nobody can force me not to show people how to have Manual update option back either. If they ask I'll show them.
    I have the option not to use 10 preview, and I also have the option to use it with Manual update.

    Nobody can force me one way or the other.
     
    #11 davidhk129, Oct 30, 2014
    Last edited: Oct 30, 2014
  12. davidhk129

    davidhk129 Senior Member

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    Who said I don't want to update ?
     
  13. Mike

    Mike Windows Forum Admin
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    I was just speaking in hypothetical terms, dave. I was not meaning it to be directed towards you, but just the idea of bypassing it in general seems a bit odd to me. I did not mean to suggest that about you. If you took it the wrong way, I apologize.
     
  14. davidhk129

    davidhk129 Senior Member

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    It the matter of Choice.
    When a choice is taken away, one questions why.
    If no explanation given, one will search for a way to retrieve the choice.
    That's human nature. Nothing odd about that.
     
  15. Mike

    Mike Windows Forum Admin
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    Well there are good choices and extremely bad and unreasonable ones :p But tuche!
     
  16. davidhk129

    davidhk129 Senior Member

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    That's your perception. Not mine.
     
  17. Mike

    Mike Windows Forum Admin
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    It is my opinion that disabling Windows Updates in the Technical Preview is a bad idea. I argued my point, and you are free to articulate yours as well. I do not see why that should be some clash of titans, dave. It is a matter of opinion and, yes, perhaps perception as to what constitutes sound policy in managing a system or group of systems running this software.
     
  18. davidhk129

    davidhk129 Senior Member

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    We agree to disagree.
    I'll leave it at that.
    Thank you
     
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  19. whs

    whs Extraordinary Member

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    I think we finally got to an end point of this useless discussion. We should leave it at that.
     
  20. davidhk129

    davidhk129 Senior Member

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    Put my name to your Ignore list.
    That way you won't be bothered with useless discussions which I shall utter a lot.
     

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