Application: Classic Shell

Andrea Borman

Honorable Member
Yes,I saw your image of your Windows 8. One is of Windows Explorer with the ribbon,the other is of Windows Explorer with the ribbon disabled. Which makes it look like Windows 7. Actually from what I have seen of it,it is not the ribbon that is the problem. As that is just a toolbar in Windows Explorer that looks rather like the one I saw in Windows 2000 on the web. And because I am using Classic Shell,I have toolbar buttons in Windows Explorer on my Windows 7. Thanks to Classic Explorer. And from what I see,that's all the ribbon is,a tool bar,with buttons,a bit like the one in Wordpad.

In Windows XP they got rid of the toolbar or ribbon in Windows Exporer and Windows XP Explorer looks rather like Windows 7's.Except that the folders in Windows XP are round not square,like in Windows 7.

But as I said the Windows Explorer in Windows 8 just has toolbar buttons,you click the paste or delete button. They call it the ribbon,but that is not the problem. It's that Metro,tiled desktop and the no start menu and taskbar that is a big problem.

And Microsoft should think more about simple computer users like me and other people who cannot use advanced operating systems. And only just about manage using a computer and who have just learned to use Windows XP. And because Windows Vista and Windows 7 is so similar,we know how to use it. The start menu is very important to Windows users,it is the first thing we look for when doing anything. And we need it to access the settings. And it is true that a lot of Microsoft software like Windows Media Player and Internet Explorer is not pinned to the desktop by default. But we pin the icons to the desktop as a shortcut we can access easy to save searching from the start menu. But that is not the same as those Metro tiles. As the Metro tiles are not desktop shortcuts and don't work the same way.

The chances are that if I was on Windows 8 and I installed,say,Firefox,it would not show up as a Tile and I would not be able to find it on my computer. And so I could not launch Firefox. I have been there with Linux. On Jolicloud where they have that Ugly black scren that looks like Windows booted into safe mode and big icon tiles. Many times,I installed software and could not find it.It was the same thing on Ubuntu where they have that desktop. That is why I don't want Windows 8. It reminds me of Mac,although I have never used it just seen it,and Linux. And I cannot use Linux and I probably won't be able to use Mac either.

So here is how to avoid getting stuck with Windows 8- Now-stock up on Windows 7 laptops. Buy at least 6 or more laptops or netbooks that are Windows 7. And also get Windows XP and Windows Vista to add to your collection,as they too are good choices. And put them away in a cupboard some where. Then when in the future they do stop selling Windows 7 and only sell Windows 8. When your laptops you are using wear out,you just take out one of your stored away Windows 7 laptops. And use it. And because you have socked up on Windows 7 laptops,you will have enough to last you the next 20 years. So you can carry on using Windows 7,Windows XP or Windows Vista for the next 20 years. And never have to use Windows 8 or be in a situation where you are stuck with Windows 8.

That seems the only way to avoid Windows 8. Andrea Borman.

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You are not paying attention again. I only posted one screen shot. Just one, no more. That is my desktop, running on multiple monitors.

Ribbon in Windows 2000? There was no ribbon in any Microsoft product until 2006. It all started with Office 2007. The ribbon is way more than just a tool bar. It takes all of the item from what was the menu bar and adds them as icons, instead of text buttons. It is very cool to say the lease. The tiles are the start menu. I cannot explain that to you any easier than that. That is the start menu. THAT IS THE SRART MENU.

Okay, granted I have to give you the point about the tiles on the start menu. I have found it a little difficult working with them. It can be annoying to get Windows to add what you want it to add to the start menu tiles. That is nothing that can't be fixed by adding a few context menu options in the explorer. And you don't pin anything to the start menu. It is a short cut in the desktop directory in your profile directory. But I wont get to far off. It might blow your mind.

This is nothing like Mac OS. I installed Firefox on 8. It installed fine and 8 added the tile just fine. Though there where some technical issues when trying to run Firefox. That will be fixed up about the time that the RC comes out. Mozilla is good about getting stuff done.

Your idea of stocking up on computers for a long time is really, really stupid. It is so stupid in fact that I feel dumber for reading it. You should feel ashamed for even suggesting that idea to any one in the world. That is so completely horrible, the only thing to do now is to pray for forgiveness. May God have mercy on your soul. Technology moves fast. There will be a point that those computers that you get today wont even be able to run simple web games. My Dell Desktops that I have, and are still running by the way, have that problem. They are running with Pentium 4 processors. Not bad for simple text editing, but they have issues with running some of the new technologies, in example: flash and shockwave. Granted they where running Vista and 7, but the principle is still the same. They are now enjoying retirement as simple file servers for my network.

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Andrea Borman

Honorable Member
Well,I don't do any gaming on my computer.Some people use Windows for gaming to play games but I don't.But I thought that Windows 8 did have a start menu in the left hand corner, but it just was not so obvious as in Windows 7. And you said that Classic Shell does work on Windows 8. So on Windows 8 I could have a Windows 7 or even a Windows XP or classic start menu if I wanted that. And I read a post on a Windows 8 forum that you can disable the Metro tiles and just have a Windows 7 desktop on Windows 8. But I don't know if you did this it would let you pin small program icons on your desktop like it is in Windows 7 and other versions of Windows. On Windows 7 and Windows XP you right click with your mouse and select send to desktop to create a shortcut on your desktop. But I don't know if doing this in Windows 8 will give you the small icons on your desktop like on Windows 7,instead of the tiles. Which is what I would want.

From what I read you can disable the metro theme, and you get a Windows 7 Aero desktop. But I don't know if you can set Windows 8 to Windows Classic theme,where the Aero is disabled,like on Windows 7. But at least on Windows 7 Aero, you would have a normal desktop and start menu and no tiles.

But what about the other problems in Windows 8? I have read that Internet Explorer comes with no add ons at all,no flash player. So you cannot watch videos on the web.What good is that? Also my netbooks are built to run Windows 7 although they could run Windows Vista or Windows XP if I could find a way to install it. And maybe they could run Windows 2000? But they are Windows 7 netbooks and Windows 8 is too different from the rest of the versions of Windows. So it is probably doubtful that they could run Windows 8 anyway.

Which suits me fine as I don't want Windows 8. And a lot of people, including me, are going to have problems using Windows 8. Because it is not like the other versions of Windows.

And the problem is that I don't have a Windows 7 CD because I have netbooks. So I would not be able to roll back to Windows 7 on a Windows 8 laptop.By installing Windows 7 on it. And also I read hat they have made the boot system in Windows 8. So you cannot install other operating systems on there. Not even Linux. So Linux users won't like that. Andrea Borman.

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Noob Whisperer
Your idea of stocking up on computers for a long time is really, really stupid. It is so stupid in fact that I feel dumber for reading it. You should feel ashamed for even suggesting that idea to any one in the world. That is so completely horrible, the only thing to do now is to pray for forgiveness. May God have mercy on your soul.
I suppose an idea can be stupid, without necessarily implying that the holder of said idea is stupid as well so given that as a premise I suppose we can let your comment pass. But this forum is about learning and sharing ideas with one another in a friendly and respectful manner.
Some people are slower to learn and more reluctant to change (Classic Shell comes to mind. I just don't get it.) But with that in mind we want to refrain whenever and where ever possible from implicit or explicit pejoratives that might be interpreted as potentially, trolling, flame baiting or just plain rude.
Everyone is not an expert or power user, daily we find ourselves communicating with people who are just barely getting by with all sorts of technology (both hardware and software) which could be due to any number of reasons, not the least of which might be personal financial constraints.
I'm not defending anyone or any particular idea. I'm only asking for understanding, cooperation and consideration from and for everyone.

Trouble, I see your point and understand 100%. I did indeed intend that the idea was dumb. I will pay more attention to how I say things in the future. Andrea is not dumb and has brought a few good points to the table. She is just not getting the major point. The tiles are the start menu. Click on the start menu in the same place, and up comes the tiles. I have been working with the new tiled start menu and it is frustrating. I have tried all that I know other than registry edits to add items that I want. Though to no avail. The only way that I have been successful is to install item to the system with an installer. Though there is so much that is in the OS be default that do not show up on that menu. I can see that classic shell will be used a good bit if this is not fixed in the Beta and RC. Like I have stated in pervious posts, it can be fixed really simply with a context menu item. The big thing that should be addressed is the lack of planning on the IE side of things. When you try to run a web link our of an email or application it tries to load it in the metro style 64 bit IE. I have as of yet found a way to change that default. Though I have not looked for a way do so. This could be a result of the IE 10 programming though.

Andrea Borman

Honorable Member
Trouble, I see your point and understand 100%. I did indeed intend that the idea was dumb. I will pay more attention to how I say things in the future. Andrea is not dumb and has brought a few good points to the table. She is just not getting the major point. The tiles are the start menu. Click on the start menu in the same place, and up comes the tiles. I have been working with the new tiled start menu and it is frustrating. I have tried all that I know other than registry edits to add items that I want. Though to no avail.
So you admit that Windows 8 is not user friendly like Windows 7 is. I did not think it would be. I think it is disgusting that Microsoft want to get rid of the Windows desktop and start menu.And replace it with those tiles that we cannot figure out how to use. What do they expect inexperience computer users like me to do? How am I and other people supposed to manage with the new Windows 8? Should we be unlucky enough to be forced to use it one day?

If they are going to make Windows 8,then make it with the normal Windows start menu and desktop. It is what we understand and know how to use. Not this ugly Metro theme that we cannot use.

And they should not have stopped selling Windows XP and Windows Vista in England. As it should be out choice what version of Windows we use. And I don't want to use Windows 8 and I hope I never have to face using Windows 8. Because I know I will have difficulty using it. Unless they make it with a normal start menu and desktop. And with Windows Search which helps me a lot on Windows 7.

But now that there is talk of Windows 8 being brought out and the possibility that you may not be able to buy Windows 7 in the future. Which I hope does not happen.

I am now thinking of buying that Windows Vista laptop or netbook I have seen in shops that sell reconditioned laptops. Why not? At least Windows Vista has a normal desktop and start menu and is like Windows 7. Anyone who understands Windows 7,will feel at home on Windows Vista. Andrea Borman.


Noob Whisperer
So you admit that Windows 8 is not user friendly like Windows 7 is.
Really..??? That's what you took away from that?
Seriously this is a pre-beta, developers preview, that was never intended to be critiqued like it is the final RTM, which we will not likely even see for another 12 months, through hopefully more betas, release candidates, CTPs, etc., where hopefully we will see some affect of careful and thoughtful criticism.
Feel free to wash you hands of the future product based solely on rumors or other people's opinions without ever giving it a fair chance to win you over. I can still remember when I went to Win95 my best DOS/Windows 3.1 buddy, asking "What the heck did you do that for". Progress, although somewhat dubious progress with the first release of 95, but still.
Feel free to spend you money as you see fit. But standing still, or even worse stepping backwards, when it comes to technology, puts you in jeopardy of being run over.
Good luck

Andrea Borman

Honorable Member
I can still remember when I went to Win95 my best DOS/Windows 3.1 buddy, asking "What the heck did you do that for". Progress, although somewhat dubious progress with the first release of 95, but still.

I thought that Windows 95 was the very first Windows operating system that people had on their computers and went on the Internet with. And that Windows 3.1 was not an operating system. I did not even know there was a Windows 3.1. I thought that first came Windows 95 in 1995,then Windows 98,then Windows 2000,then Windows ME, and then Windows XP. Which then led to Windows Vista and Windows 7. But I have never head of Windows 3.1. Andrea Borman.


Windows Forum Admin
Staff member
Premium Supporter
The first Microsoft windows was 'Windows 1.0' released in 1985.

Andrea Borman

Honorable Member
Well I remember 1985,and I don't remember anyone talking about the Internet then. That was not invented until 1998.When in London they opened an Internet cafe in a shopping centre. That offered classes on how to use the computer and Internet.

They have had computers since the 1970's and before that. But they were not for public use only police stations and government offices used them. I don't think they had the Internet before 1995.It was not invented before then. Andrea Borman.


Noob Whisperer
Been around since DARPA connected a couple computers one in Connecticut to another in California and called it ARPANET in the mi60s.
The world wide web came quite a bit later, hypertext in 1991 and the Mosaic graphical browser in 1993 and this relatively new Google thing which you should feel free to use to gather this information for yourself.

Right on Trouble. I am not old enough to have used some of the technology that has been discussed. Never the less, I do have my basic computer knowledge of it. Andrea...You have a lot to learn about computers. I guess the reason that I even care to show or teach you anything, is because you remind me of me. Like 10 years ago. This is not necessarily a bad thing or an insult. Trouble pointed out that I was being harsh. That renewed me to the out look of this and any other conversation that we are or will have. Given time all of this will make way more since.

Andrea Borman

Honorable Member
In 1985,I was 22 years old. And while some people did work work with computers. Or at least I met some people that said they did. They still used typewriters in offices. They never had the Internet in 1985. And they did not have it in 1991 no way. It came in in around I think around the late 1990's 1997 maybe. But nobody I know used the Internet. But I do remember the Internet cafe in the London shopping centre,giving Internet classes. You had to pay for them of course. And they had computers in Libraries in 1999.

But I did not learn how to use a computer until July-august 2006. When the person sitting next to me at the Internet cafe showed me how to use the computer.Before that I could not even use a mouse. But it was not until 2008 that I was able to do email. when some one gave me an email address to set up my first Hotmail account. As they ask for an alternative email address and I did not have one. So I used the email address the person gave me to set up my first email account. And from then on I set up more email accounts and then I created my first blog. And then it went on from there. Then last April in 2010 after spending most of my time in Internet cafes.I got my first computer. A Windows 7 netbook.And I now have four Windows 7 netbooks and two windows XP netbooks. So I have got six netbooks.

But before I got my own laptop,I did not know anything about Windows XP or Windows 7.And I did not even know which version of Windows the Internet cafes ran. But now I do because you can see it on the boot screen-they run Windows XP. But Windows 7 is so much like Windows XP. That is it has a start menu and a normal Windows desktop. So you don't notice the change in operating systems. And Internet cafes put their own desktop themes on their computers anyway. So they don't make it look like the traditional windows XP desktop.

But my typing is not very good. I can only do two finger typing and looking at the keyboard.Like I am typing this now. That is I am typing slowly with one or two fingers. So my typing would not pass in an office.

But if my first computer had been Windows 8,I would have been lost.The way it looks and is. But Windows 7 made me feel right at home. It is very user friendly. And if you know Windows 7,you will find Windows XP easy. But Windows 7's Windows Search is better than Windows XP's, as it brings up any result. But Windows XP's Windows Search does not find everything. But both Windows XP and Windows 7 are user friendly and easy to use. But Windows 8 does not seem user friendly at all.Andrea Borman.

To be blatantly honest, you have little to no idea what you are talking about. There is a desktop, I showed you a screen shot of it. The control panel, computer manager, administrator tools, explorer and most any other software is still in Windows. Other than the start menu being so different, there is little to no difference in how things are done in 8 as apposed to 7. So in reality what you are saying is that 8 is so user unfriendly, so that makes 7 unfriendly and Vista unfriendly as well as XP unfriendly. You need to use something before you start saying how bad something is. This is a Mojave situation all over again. Please take one of those netbooks and install 8 on it. Run it. I mean really run it. No half assing it. I would suggest installing classic shell, just the start menu part, not any of the rest of it. This is still technically an Alpha Windows, so it may cause you to have to reinstall. Run it and see what you think. Give some real feed back about what you ran across and not every one else's opinion. Start thinking for yourself, and get out of that box of ignorance.

Andrea Borman

Honorable Member
No,Windows 7,Windows XP and Windows Vista are very user friendly. They are not like Windows 8. As for installing Windows 8 on one of my netbooks. First there is no CD drive. But I could install it the same way I installed Linux Mint. Mount the ISO file on virtual clone drive. but the catch is you have to first partition the hard disk. So I read but with Linux Mint you don't.Because you can install it inside Windows. But Windows is different.

Also I do not know how to partition the hard disk. And it is likely that if I tried I would mess up my computer. Also I could wipe out my Windows 7 operating system altogether, if I did not know what I was doing.

I would love to install Windows 2000 alongside my Windows 7. some people do it. But I have read many tutorials and it is too complicated. I cannot even install it in virtual box or virtual machine. That does not work either. I think it is because I don't know how to use Virtual Box.

So Windows 8 will not be going on my netbook because I don't have the skill to install it anyway. Not without messing something up.

But if I could install operating systems,sure,I would have Windows XP and Windows 2000 running side by side in duel boot on my Windows 7 netbook. But as it is, I have got two Windows XP netbooks. So I have both Windows XP and Windows 7,just on different netbooks. Andrea Borman.​

So let me get this right. You can't install an OS of any kind from scratch. Your first experience with a personally owned computer was on the Windows 7 OS. You don't have the basic understanding of the internet/web or even networking. You believe that if you can't do it then it is imposable to do. Now you want to start telling us, with over 50+ years of experience, that you know more than us. How dose that work?

Andrea Borman

Honorable Member
Yes,it is true. I cannot install another Windows operating system on my netbook. The first problem is that the netbooks have no CD drive. I was able to install Linux Mint by mounting the ISO file on virtual clone drive and Ubuntu the same way. Then the Mint 4 Windows installer finished the installation. So Linux was installed inside Windows and can be removed the same way you uninstall Firefox,in uninstall a program.

With Windows it seems you cannot install it the same way. I have seen videos on You Tube about installing Windows XP on a Windows 7 netbook,using a USB stick. But you need a copy of the Windows XP operating system and then you have to activate Windows. Also you need a Windows CD. But because I have netbooks,I did not get one with my netbooks,it never came with them.So the only way I could reinstall Windows is to do a factory restore to factory settings. And this is on the recovery partition on my netbooks. And is the only way I could restore my system,should I get a serious problem.

So you see the problem. I don't even have a Windows 7 CD. But on the recovery partition,there is where the factory image is stored,put on there by the makers of my netbook. So I can do a system recovery to restore my computer to factory settings. That is put it back to the way it was when it was bought,the out of the box condition. Andrea Borman.

I have not used a CD/DVD to install an OS in about 3 or more years. That lame excuse just went out the Windows. Pun intended. It is true that you need a valid license for installing Windows. The media that it is installed from is irrelevant. Download an ISO from the internet. As long as your COA says Windows 7 and the image is for Windows 7, not Windows 7 with Service Pack 1, and you use the key that is on your machine, then you are legal. The disks that you buy anywhere are all the same, exact clones of each other. The only thing that matters is the COA (Certificate of Authentication) and the key code.

Andrea Borman

Honorable Member
Well,I already have Windows 7 on my four Windows 7 netbooks. They are all HP Mini 210 and 2 have a hard drive of 250 and I have got 200GB free disk space on the C drive. The other two HP netbooks have 120GB free space on C on the C drive out of 130GB. And the recovery is on the D drive and all four are 1GB ram.

The Windows XP 1GB ram netbooks,the first one is-Acer Aspire One,that only has a C drive and I have 129GB free space out of 139GB. The MSI WIND netbook which is also Windows XP-well get this-the D drive is 145GB and has 144GB free space. But the C drive is only 39GB and has 28GB free space. But it should have been made the other way around-C drive 145GB hard drive and D drive 39GB. But they made C drive 39GB and D drive 145GB. Why is that? And although you can get round this problem by installing some programs on D drive,some other programs will only install or work on C drive.

But a few weeks ago when I was in a shop that sold laptops with Windows XP and Windows Vista. I was surprised to see several big laptops,not netbooks but big laptops. But they only had a 80GB hard drive. yet my HP netbooks have a 250GB C drive. I don't understand this one either. Except that I am better off with my small 250GB hard drive netbook,than a big laptop that only has an 80GB hard drive on C drive. as I have more space.

But I would love to put windows XP on one of my HP netbooks but I don't know how I could. I don't think I could just take the image that is on my Windows XP netbook,put it on a CD or USB stick in back up your system.That they have on system restore and just transfer it onto my Windows 7 netbook,in system restore. Where it says replace everything on your computer with an image you created earlier.Could I do that? Andrea Borman.

Now that is a really good question. I like where you where going with that transfer the restore partition. It is possible, and you can get your computer to boot form the flash drive, that should be no problem. As long as 1) the restore is not an encrypted partition that only runs as a CD/DVD 2) the restore is not encrypted into a single file on the partition 3) the restore is not specifically designed to run on one set hardware profile. If all three of those are no, then you should be good to go on that. On the other hand I would suggest that, since you have multiple computers, I would make one a testing grounds. Get the Windows Developer Preview of Windows 8. I say Windows 8 because it is free. If you mess up your partitioning then it doesn't matter, try again. I have little to no concept of what it is like to not know how to do these things. I have done them for so long, that it is just second nature to me. I on the other hand have no hard feelings about answering questions when it comes to what to do with this or that. I will give you any help I can. The only real way to learn this stuff in a efficient manner is to do it and screw up, and do it again. Trial by fire is the best way to learn computers. You are going to make mistakes, and break stuff. If you don't you are a lamer, and just pretending to work on computers. No one is immune to things going wrong. It happens to me all the time. Though I stand tall and get back on the horse and keep going. I never let the little crap slow me down. Any way the other thing I was going to say is that with any computer it all a matter of what the person working on it dose to it. The amount of RAM, under the maximum for the motherboard, and hard drive size is subject to what the shop wants to put in it. As long as the connections are the same, then the limit to the size of the hard drive is what ever is available for laptop drives. My 3 to 5 year old laptop has a 1 TB in it. It was the best at the time for $245, a year ago. With ram it is a little different. The type has to match and the motherboard has a limit on how much it will hold. My Laptop has an 8 Gig limit. That is 2 - 4 Gig stick. Where my desktop has a 24 Gig limit, that is 6 - 4 Gig sticks. It is running DDR 3 and there are 6 and 8 Gig sticks, but my chipset will only accept a 4 Gig stick, for what ever reason. That is one thing I have never understood. I know that you can change that with a BIOS upgrade, if there is one. But I am getting off subject here. Sorry. Again though, I really liked that question.

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