Free Anti-Virus .vs. Purchased Anti-Virus

Andrea Borman

Honorable Member
Well good for you, however it is not prudent to run a system that has access to the net without a anti virus program. Just install Microsoft Security Essentials (MSE) it is easy to use takes up few resources.
Remember a little protection is better than none.
If you do happen to get a Trojan or virus or malware in the future, you may not get much sympathy because of your attitude toward not wanting to run an anti virus program
best of luck in the future with your endeavors using a computer
Out of curiosity if you are unlucky enough to get a virus how would you get rid of it? Would restoring your computer back to factory condition,which gives you a clean install of Windows get rid of it,or not? Andrea Borman.

I do daily full backups to an internal hard drive using W7, If you had a AV program and other protection it most likely would catch and delete the infection or quarantine it so it would not effect your machine.
However in those cases where it may infect your machine I just would do a restore of a backup from an image prior to the infection date.
I also Do a Full back weekly using Macrium reflect to a different internal drive than the one I have my W7 backups on.
Yes a clean install by formatting and installing W7 again would get rid of the problem

Andrea Borman

Honorable Member
Because I have a Netbook,all my three laptops are Netbooks. I have no CD drive and so I have not backed up my files.

But on my Netbooks,all HP mini 210 different models. They have two types of factory restore-

1-Full restore to factory condition-this is where all of HP's software is reinstalled on the computer and the original Windows my Netbook came with before I bought it-Windows 7 Starter,and the Windows software-IE8,Windows Media Player and drivers.

2-Minimized image restore- this also restores to factory condition but without all of that branded HP software. You just get the original Windows the computer came with before you bought it-Windows 7 Starter and just the Windows software-IE8,Windows Media Player,Windows drivers. But not HP's software,which you don't need anyway.

But because I have a Netbook I cannot just uninstall Windows completely and reinstall with a Windows 7 CD. I do not have one anyway and I don't think my local computer shop has the Windows 7 CDs.

So the only thing I could do if something went wrong with my computer,is to do the factory restore.

But would that really get rid of a virus?

Also MRT-Malicious Software removal Tool,scans for and removes all of those viruses,you mentioned if it finds any. And so can Windows Defender.

So I hope if I was unlucky enough to get a virus,those tools could get rid of it,without me having to do a factory restore. Andrea Borman.

In your case you would have to use your the factory restore.


Noob Whisperer
Rather than perpetuating the argument and risking adding to the confusion perhaps everyone can take a look at this link from the vendor who actually makes these resources available to the consumer and examine the handy chart at the bottom that provides a comparision of what each of Microsoft solutions actually do, and do not do. It may help.

Andrea Borman

Honorable Member
I have looked at the chart on that link and it seems that Windows Defender and MRT if used together will help stop your computer getting viruses. And remove any that are found from the scans. And on Windows Vista and Windows 7 you have got both Windows Defender and MRT. Windows XP does not have these tools but, Windows XP users can download them from the Microsoft website. Andrea Borman.

Joe S

Excellent Member
Andrea if you get a virus all of your data may be corrupt, and it may not be possible to just remove the virus and fix things especially with just MS tools. Sometimes they destroy all of your system settings and frequently corrupt restore points in System Restore.

Andrea Borman

Honorable Member
Does it really get that bad? Remember when I had to do a factory restore because of what the registry cleaner did? I was worried that it might not work. But Mike said the Recovery partition is hidden, so it was unlikely to be corrupted and it was not.

It is true that the Recovery partition is hidden from people like you or I and it is on D drive. And as long as you don't do anything to it,you should be able to do the factory restore. That puts back the original Windows you had when the computer was bought.

But some people,who are trying to install Linux or a second operating system do partition their hard disks and delete or alter the D drive or delete it.

But I do not know how to partition my disks and I would never try to do this because that would mess up my computer.

The feature of being able to partition or alter you hard disk including deleting the recovery partition needs to be removed from all versions of Windows. So that nobody even an administrator can do it.

Because this will mess up your computer. As well as the fact that you won't be able to do a factory restore, when something goes wrong with your computer,that cannot be fixed any other way.

But even if I did have an anti-virus program a virus can still get on the computer. As I have read of people getting viruses with an anti-virus program already installed. Andrea Borman.

There is always a risk, but there is nothing in life that is risk free. One can say if I did this or did not do this then this would not have happened. If is a big word, If a Buzzard had CD player in its A$$ there be music in the air.

The feature of being able to partition or alter you hard disk including deleting the recovery partition needs to be removed from all versions of Windows. So that nobody even an administrator can do it.

Because this will mess up your computer. As well as the fact that you won't be able to do a factory restore, when something goes wrong with your computer,that cannot be fixed any other way.
Again you are wrong.
Just because you find partitioning beyond your abilities or understanding doesn't mean people should be prohibited from doing it.
Even if MS were stupid enough to remove this handy feature from Windows there are many 3rd party programs, both free and paid that can partition
a drive, most better able than the app that comes with Windows.

BTW, factory restore isn't the only option for fixing a computer.
To name a couple you can reinstall from scratch using an OS install CD\DVD, you can create an image of your system to use later to restore your system
to the condition it was in when you created the image.
Actually short of physically destroying a computer it can be restored by just about most users capable of following instructions.
With the possible exception of you Andrea.


Millennium Celebration Award Winner
Premium Supporter
I use ESET Smart Security and since I started using Eset products I've never had a virus in my computer. It has blocked quite a few. I also use Firefox with NoScript and that has blocked Click Jacking exploits several times lately. I have seen those viruses out there because I have fixed some computers with viruses that belong to friends of mine. It's always because they don't realize the importance of the virus signature updates and they let their update service lapse.


Extraordinary Member
Quite agree, anti-virus, anti-malware, even security apps are not completely about blocking everything known and indeed unknown, it's about playing the percentages. The weakest security will always fall first and fall often to hackers, the extra things you can use greatly reduce the chances, something that any sane person would do out of common sense, better to be 95% safe than 0%. Such nah sayers of the idea are very foolish to gamble on being safe, and are the very same people that are responsible for the bulk of the botnets, oblivious to the damage they do to everybody else.

A good example of this ignorance should look up the tale of "Typhoid Mary" which while applies to disease, equally applies to ignorant web users in regards to the spread of spam, trojans, viruses, and malware. The example quote says it all really -

"Today, Typhoid Mary is a generic term for a healthy carrier of a noted pathogen, especially one who refuses to cooperate with health authorities to minimize the risk of infection. The term is applied to a person who spreads malicious computer software by a blend of naïveté and refusal to use protective software against the

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Andrea Borman

Honorable Member
To all this
I have to ask what have you been smoking, Outlook express was fine for many users who knew what they were doing.
I certainly hope you do not give computer advice to you friends and family. I personally never used Outlook express as I use Microsoft OUTLOOK which comes with many versions of MICROSOFT OFFICE SUITE. I have used OUTLOOK EXPRESS a long time ago had no problem with notr with the setup. If something comes with Windows you as a user are not required to use it.
Well,one of my friends said when I asked him about Outlook Express,Thunderbird and email clients like it-or clones of Outlook Express.When he tried to use it.

"you can't use it. It won't let you use it."

That's well said don't you think? My friend has hit it right on the nail and he is right.

Those email clients won't let ANYBODY use them!
Andrea Borman.

Well, I guess your friend and you know what is best. If what you do on a computer works for you fine.
I just do not think the advice you are giving is very helpful or knowledgeable.
Most forums I belong to did not want Outlook express removed from Vista it is or was their preferred e-mail client.
You have to ask you self, why millions of users have no problems with it or as you put it the clones of Outlook Express and you do. In answer to that question the problem appears to be with you not outlook Express

Andrea Borman

Honorable Member
My friends words about Outlook express and it's clones are-"you cant use it. It won't let you use it."
His words not mine, but very true. But he and I and other people have noticed that even when you put in the complicated information that it wants. Even then it does not work.

As another friend put it about Outlook Express and it's clones. It does not allow itself to be used. So it is impossible to use.

But as I have said, I have not laughed so much as what I have this week. And the posts I have written about how impossible it is to use those email clients. Well,they have been very funny and entertaining.

If someone put a video on You Tube or My Space about how they tried to use-THE EMAIL THAT NOBODY CAN USE. And every attempt to use the email keeps failing. It is a bit like on a comedy show I saw once.

But on a serious note. Why have that system? It does not work. At least not for me and other computer users who are not that experienced.

Why not just have a system on those emails where you just create an account with a username and password. And then just set it up with that, like you do with Nimbuzz for example. And then connect your email accounts just by typing in your Hotmail email address or Aol screen name and password.

That would work, and is something that most people including I can do. And I do use Aim Messenger and other messengers like it, without any problems.

But Outlook Express and it's clones,Thunderbird,SeaMonkey Mail,Windows Live Mail and other email clients like it. I cannot use and most other people cannot use it either, it seems. Andrea Borman.

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I am through this is my last piece of advice.
1. Go take a course on your computer system, go to an expert to have them install Outlook Express. If you are running W7 Outlook express will not work on that system period. It was never meant to work on W7
Outlook Express was an integral part, component, of Internet Explorer, but Microsoft unbundled it when IE7 was introduced.

Outlook Express is not be available for Windows 7, and OE cannot be downloaded as a separate utility or client

I would also suggest that you do not give computer advise to anyone, as you are still in the newbie range of expertise.

2. If Windows Live Mail client (which isn't webmail, by the way, just local files with pop3) really isn't acceptable (but you don't tell why) and OE is not available on Windows 7 your options are:
1. Stay with XP, don't migrate to Windows 7.
2. Find another email client (such as Thunderbird) that works with Windows 7
3. Run XP in a virtual machine on your Windows 7 (it comes integrated in the business versions, but that won't work on all machines)

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Andrea Borman

Honorable Member
Well,I was talking about all of those email clients,not just Outlook Express. Outlook Express was the first email client. And then they made Thunderbird,Windows Mail,Windows Live Mail,SeaMonkey Mail,Spicebird and others. But all of them are based on Outlook Express and have the same system.

I know that Outlook Express is not for Windows 7. But there are other email clients that are for Windows 7.Such as Thunderbird,Windows Live Mail,SeaMonkey Mail and Spicebird. And all of them are clones of Outlook Express and work the same way as that. And I cannot use any of them.

The email clients are meant to connect you with all of your different email accounts. If you can use them, but of course nobody can use them. So we can't use them.

But by the time I have spent hours on the computer,trying to use Outlook Express or a clone of it. And have failed,I could be logged into my different email accounts by just going onto the web. And signing into Hotmail,then Google or Aol myself and read all of my emails. In the time it takes me to figure out how to use the email clients,which after many hours, I discovered I cannot use anyway.

And it seems that neither I or anybody else will ever be able to use them,no matter what we do to try.

As my other friends put it about Outlook Express and it's clones-"You cant use it. It won't let you use it." And "It does not allow itself to be used."

Well it does not, does it. It seems that those email clients were made in a way that they don't want anyone to use them.

As I said in other posts, Outlook Express and clones are-THE EMAIL THAT NOBODY CAN USE.

And I don't think that I or anybody else will ever be able to use them.

So my advice is-forget Outlook Express and clones. Use a good chat messenger like Aim Mesenger or Instantbird if you want a messenger for email messages. Or even just your web based email account like Hotmail or G.Mail.

At least you can and will be able to use them.

Outlook Express and clones-you won't be able to use them. That is for sure. Andrea Borman.


Noob Whisperer
For such a difficult piece of software to use it sure seems to enjoy a very high popularity (except with you and one of your friends). Most Popular Email Clients
Almost 10% higher than it next two closest competitors combined.

Andrea Borman

Honorable Member
I think that me telling everyone how bad the email clients, Outlook Express and it's clones are, could make more people want to test them out for themselves. To find out if it is true that they really cannot use them.

Which they will find that they won't be able to use them. Like I cannot use them. Andrea Borman.

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Noob Whisperer
I can only provide information based on data available as I did here
which included a link based on the software vendor's specific information regarding its' own products, which plaining shows that Windows Defender does not protect your computer from a virus nor does the MSRT protect your computer from a virus, which you have evidently chosen to ignore based on this comment
I have looked at the chart on that link and it seems that Windows Defender and MRT if used together will help stop your computer getting viruses.
My goal is not to argue with you nor to try to convince someone who is evidently beyond convincing. It is only my intention to provide facts to the best of my ability so that the general discussion is not further corrupted by erroneous information unsupported by anything except a very narrow view based on limited personal experience.

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