One computer won't talk to the others

Discussion in 'Windows 10 Networking' started by UKAspie, Jun 23, 2016.

  1. UKAspie

    UKAspie Honorable Member

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    Three Windows computers on the LAN. Internet upgrade requiring new router. All three have Internet access, two can talk to each other but the third can't see the two and they can't see it. Any ideas?
     
  2. BIGBEARJEDI

    BIGBEARJEDI Honorable Member
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    Are any of the computers running Vista? If so, there is a new glitch with many of the new broadband modem-wifi router combo units (boxes) that will not allow Vista computers to access the Internet any longer. Just ran into this last month. This is not a Microsoft problem, but rather a problem with the box-makers who supply the boxes to ISP customers such as Charter and Verizon.

    Other than that we'd need more information on the Windows versions of each computer, Make/Model of each computer, and a network diagram or sketch on how you've connected the 3 computers together. Also, are you running a Windows or Linux server or Proxy server in your LAN?

    Thanks,
    <<<BIGBEARJEDI>>>
     
  3. Neemobeer

    Neemobeer Windows Forum Team
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    Yes, it would be helpful to know what Windows versions at the least are running on each. Also what is "can't see" what are you trying to see them with?
     
  4. RichM

    RichM Active Member

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    Windows versions would be really helpful as suggested.
     
  5. UKAspie

    UKAspie Honorable Member

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    The network is now three systems. Two are running Windows 10 with automatic updates. The third is running Linux Mint.

    The topology is three computers connected to the broadband router by RJ45. No server or proxy. The "models" of the Win-10 boxes is "homebrew".

    One and two can ping three and open shares on three. No other pings or shares work.

    Windows Explorer can open a shared drive on the Linux box but not any on the other Windows box. On both Windows boxes the "Network" option shows both Windows boxes and not the Linux box.
     
  6. Neemobeer

    Neemobeer Windows Forum Team
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    Windows uses SSDP to discover other SSDP enabled devices. Linux doesn't typically have support for SSDP out of the box. I'm also curious what "share" exactly you are accessing on the Linux box unless you are running Samba.

    As for the Windows host not being able to ping the other, what firewall profile are you using, if it's public I don't think you will be able to connect to it since the Public profile is more locked down.
     
  7. UKAspie

    UKAspie Honorable Member

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    Linux Mint has a filestore "Properties" pane that looks a bit like the Windows one, and includes a "Share this folder" check box. I didn't dive into the details so it probably is using Samba.

    I said in my first post, but not clearly - this was all working with the old router but doesn't work with the new one. It can't be the router blocking all LAN traffic as the Linux shares are accessible. I use simple file sharing on the Windows systems and my security package has a firewall. As the desktops never leave the building the firewall is set to home.
     
  8. Neemobeer

    Neemobeer Windows Forum Team
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    I think the default file manager is still Nautilus in Mint which may have samba functionality built in. You can also look for /etc/samba/smb.conf to see if you have samba, or from a terminal ps aux | grep samba.

    A SOHO router is really a router and a switch combined. If you are going LAN device to LAN device you are only utilizing the switch functionality. I'd say to really figure this one, I would run wireshark on two of the machines that can't talk to each other and capture on both and look at the captures to determine what is causing the issue. If you can get the capture files, you can PM them to me and I can look if you don't want them available publicly.
     
  9. UKAspie

    UKAspie Honorable Member

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    I don't know if this adds anything useful, but all systems can ping an XP machine.
     
  10. BIGBEARJEDI

    BIGBEARJEDI Honorable Member
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    Yes, I believe part of the problem is that without a network server, and you are using W10 Home or W10 Pro (you didn't mention what 2 versions of W10 are actually being run on your 2-self-built PCs), you need to use W10 HomeGroup networking. This is most likely your problem. Shares don't work properly on W7/8/8.1/8.1.1 on a server-less home network unless you use the Microsoft HomeGroup networking. This has been true since 2009 when Win7 came out.

    I can't speak for Linux Mint file/folder sharing capabilities, I've not yet run that. But, as far as UbuntuLTS goes, I think it will work. I've only done limited sharing with Ubuntu and W10 Tech Preview builds. I haven't run into the problems you describe. However, I think that kemical and neemo are onto something with the samba networking protocols that Mint apparently runs. I don't believe Ubuntu uses those, but I'm not sure. If you've got an extra hard drive lying around you might enable W10 HomeGroup networking on both of those W10 desktop PCs, and then install the latest version of UbuntuLTS which is v16.04, and you can get it here: Download Ubuntu Desktop | Download | Ubuntu
    Then try to retest your networking shares and ping tests and see if that gets any different or better results.

    Cheers!:D
    <<<BIGBEARJEDI>>>
     
  11. UKAspie

    UKAspie Honorable Member

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    Yes, the default "upgrade" pushed out to XP users is Windows 10 Home. W10 Homegroup isn't usable as it is designed to block the other OSes I use. Shares don't work properly on a mixed network if Windows is allowed to use Homegroup, but fortunately even W10 can use normal shares.

    This sounds like a "Microsoft" solution - re-install all the operating systems!
     
  12. UKAspie

    UKAspie Honorable Member

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    I don't see how to attach a file to a PM here, but I have had a try with Wireshark on one system. On an outgoing ping I can see an IPv6 ARP request and response followed by an IPv4 ping but no response. On an incoming ping I can see the IPv6 ARP messages but no ping. When I ping from the Win-10 to the Linux I can see the ping and response. No ARP but I had previously done this ping.
     
  13. Neemobeer

    Neemobeer Windows Forum Team
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    Can you upload the wireshark to like google drive and do a link share an PM that?
     
  14. BIGBEARJEDI

    BIGBEARJEDI Honorable Member
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    >>>Well, yes, that's a normal Microsoft design function; they only want you to use their OS for free networking. However, there's usually a way to do a workaround, though that usually involves building a Microsoft server such as 2008 Server RT or newer. Multi-protocol environments are then allowed to be added onto the NT kernel going all the way back to NT v3.51 as additional purchased services (more money for MS). Normal home users do not use Linux, just like they don't use VMS or Solaris. In fact Home Networking doesn't play nice with Mac iOS either, as you said they aren't designed to work together in a peer-to-peer LAN environment; they never were.:ohno:
    That being said, if you don't get anywhere with your W10 & Mint network, you might try my suggestion of temporarily replacing the Mint with Ubuntu & W10 as it has a richer depth of protocols in it's internals. If that fails, there are now about 600 other versions of Linux you can now try that are out there. You can also do further research at The Linux Foundation
    Let's say that you test all 600 versions of Linux currently available and still find no solution, you would then be at an impass, and your only solution is to build a Microsoft server to handle the multiprotocol sharing correctly or give that idea up entirely. :cash: Microsoft would say that you are attempting to apply a business level solution to a consumer-use product which they never intended, especially without getting paid for that capability in your OS.:sosad: And since you're using Linux and Windows in a multi-OS network, I don't suspect putting in a server in your home environment is anywhere on your visualized horizon.<<<

    <<<BBJ>>>
     
  15. UKAspie

    UKAspie Honorable Member

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    Have done.
     
  16. Neemobeer

    Neemobeer Windows Forum Team
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    I'll look at them when I get home.
     
  17. Neemobeer

    Neemobeer Windows Forum Team
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    Which box is 74? Is it the Linux one by chance?
     
  18. UKAspie

    UKAspie Honorable Member

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    No - 70 and 74 are Win-10. 30 is Linux.
     
  19. UKAspie

    UKAspie Honorable Member

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    I've found the problem - or at least the main one. The network was correctly set to Private, but the firewall hadn't picked it up and was set to Public. Now the Win-10 systems can see each other and the Linux system. The Linux system still can't use shares on the Win-10 systems.
     
  20. BIGBEARJEDI

    BIGBEARJEDI Honorable Member
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    Glad you got it working-for the most part.:up: You might still try to use a different version of Linux such as Ubuntu or Puppy-Linux on your machine running the Mint; if you have a spare hard drive you could remove the drive with Mint, stick it in a drawer temporarily and put in the spare drive and install Ubuntu or one of the other many Linux versions as I refer to in my Post #14 and see if those Linux versions can use shares on the W10 systems you have over the network. We still haven't heard from any of our Linux gurus on this topic or perhaps they haven't tried Mint with W10 over the network; but if you decide to try it and it works with Ubuntu or one of the other Linux versions, please post back and let us know so we can share that with other forum users.

    The link for Ubuntu is here:
    www.ubuntu.com

    Best,
    BBJ
     

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