Why you should say no to Windows 8 and stick with Windows 7.

Discussion in 'Windows 7 Installation' started by Andrea Borman, Jan 15, 2012.

  1. Drew

    Drew Banned

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    ___________--------------
     
    #141 Drew, Feb 2, 2012
    Last edited: Feb 2, 2012
  2. Drew

    Drew Banned

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    It's a high-level computer term... means, Laughing My A$$ Off

    Came in Windows 7. We are not sure if it will be in Windows 8 or not, yet.

    But, for some reason we seem to be doing it a lot here lately
     
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  3. Mike

    Mike Windows Forum Admin
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    It has turned into a profitable week for publically traded technology companies. This is not to say that the earnings potential, real efficiency, wage standards, or even earnings per share have anything to do with the quality of a product or service. But what it will do, most certainly, is create buzz. And, if you are savvy enough what I am talking about, Andrea, I am specifically referencing the Facebook IPO and the transition of the business into a publicly traded entity.

    I am reminded by the term \'Facebook\', that you should not judge a book by its cover, as the story goes, and the same can be said for an unfinished Windows 8. I do believe, Andrea, that you are now just fabricating facts to fit your argument, and this is unfortunate. As you claimed, quite some time ago, you did watch some early preview videos that I had made on the Windows 8 Developer Preview and came to a conclusion, based on my first-time, hands-on experience of the operating system, that it would be a horrendous monstrosity. However, it also appears that you came to a noxious conclusion that there is no Start menu whatsoever. This is not true. While the videos I posted at http://windows8forums.com, did at the time, note a hint of frustration at the fact that this was my first time ever really using the operating system and its new features, what you have failed to mention is what I have pointed out: The build that was released at the BUILD Conference, including the Developer Preview, were designed to showcase the touchscreen capability of Metro UI and its experimental features.

    I would like you to imagine a world several years from now, when, in all likelihood, every new laptop holds the ability of supporting touch screen technology. These new monitors, much like the small touch screens found on Samsung mobile cellphones (with SUPER AMOLED Plus or something better), will be extremely resilient, scratch resistant, capable of responding only to the human touch, and high definition. Your fingers will hardly ever create a smudge on the screen, and over time, as the technology is perfected, more and more people will endorse these monitors on laptops, netbooks, televisions, and stand-alone units. I take that into serious consideration, because this technology already exists. Emergency service units here in New York were using NVIDIA Quadro cards with four stacked touch screen monitors to answer 911 EMS calls. These devices were being assembled in the event that if one went down, the others could pick up the slack. And these monitors were capable of saving lives by bypassing the keyboard. The operating system? Microsoft Windows XP with an extremely important application running over it. You see, if someone could touch the screen as fast as possible, instead of pointing and clicking, those few seconds would at least have a small chance to save someone who was going into cardiac arrest or whose home was on fire.

    I would like you to imagine that world, because it is a reality today. While in use by certain segments of the population, just like WiFi AIR cards, these devices are becoming high in supply, cheap to produce, and low in demand. That creates a recipe for lower prices, consumer commercialization, and what is needed more than anything else is an operating system with extensive, native support for this technology.

    One of the driving innovations towards that vision has been a company that you know very well, and it is not Microsoft. I am talking about IBM. For decades, IBM has researched and pioneered some of the most important technological breakthroughs in human interface devices. These advancements in research and development have led to life changing technology for the disabled, aerospace applications, and other uses. In fact, IBM sold their hardware division to the largely state-run corporation Lenovo, in order to continue their research in the areas of the superconductor, micro-processors, and human interface devices (HIDs), and even quantum computing (the application of quantum physics into computer science).

    I bring this up because today, we enjoy and take for granted many of the devices, most of which are powered by USB or radio band technology, that allow us to navigate our computers. Because IBM-PC’s were notoriously reverse engineered, copied, and made compatible by other vendors, and because of advancements in modular computing by Intel with the ATX form factor, the technology involved in initial consumer computer offerings are a good bargain. So when a keyboard or mouse breaks, we may worry briefly about a buggy USB controller, but not the entire system.
    -
    And so what I am trying to say to you, likely more than anything else, is that times will change, whether we are prepared or not. I am sure that you were ill-prepared for Windows 7. Yet as time went on, you made it a point to learn this new system, and came to appreciate some of its nuances. And I have watched some of your videos, where you insist on going back to an ancient version of Windows Media Player, or want to completely eliminate a certain aspect of the operating system, I cringe. But I am sure that you have your reasons, and those lie in personal preference. From a professional perspective, however, Windows has been a work in progress since NT 4. The core operating system is based on a kernel that has undergone hundreds of thousands of stability enhancements, performance improvements, fixes, and code rewrites. If you understand how the OS is developed, than you must understand the development team went out of their way to improve performance with Windows 7: going so far as to run it through a simulation of every possible interaction over and over again looking for it to crash and then finding out why.

    In many cases, people on these forums and elsewhere have difficulty with Windows due to, admittedly, inexperience, as well as problems with third party device drivers. Unlike Apple, Microsoft does not enforce the strictest possible driver signing requirements on third party developers. This has allowed businesses who specialize in third party peripherals and accessories to flourish greatly, but at the expense of some reliability. While Microsoft has gotten better in this area over the years, it is a well-established precedent, that the more stuff that you install on your system, without properly QA tested drivers, the more danger there is to stability. This is one reason that, even in the server realm, and outside of Windows altogether, backups are a regular occurrence.

    I suspect that over time, you will come to realize that Windows 8 is not the monstrosity you believe it to be. But even if it is, you will be able to pass up the opportunity and wait for a new version of Windows. If you don’t want to do that, you can stay with the one you have, or migrate to a different operating system. There is no limitation to how you use your computer but your own mind and technical knowledge. I suspect that just as you learned much about Windows 7, that you would also pick up on Windows 8. But, in order to grasp the bigger picture, of what kind of territory that the Metro UI is headed for, I would like you to think of a unified platform. Microsoft has been known to develop software solutions for point of sale transactions at retail outlets using additional software and, in some cases, a custom operating system. With a unified client architecture, and a unified server architecture, it becomes easier to meet the needs of all sorts of different users. This can include people who are disabled. I mentioned IBM before, because their research has led to the type of technology Microsoft is developing to allow you to navigate Windows with hand gestures and body motions. In Japan, there is technology that is available, for a high price, which can read your thoughts and allow you to control the computer system by thinking of an action. For individuals with severe disabilities, this technology can enrich their lives.

    In the future, you will very well be able to use a version of Windows on a surface display found at a restaurant to place your order. You will be able to control these things with your eyes and your hands. I believe that it has occurred to me and others that the mouse and keyboard are in the early stages of becoming obsolete. The voice recognition technology in the new Apple iPhone is a great example of next generation human interface. Disable it in a few, quick easy steps, and the Metro UI will disappear from site. But why it is being developed is exactly the one thing that Microsoft has been known to do not that bad in: force their competitors and partners to further innovate their own products. That means types of computers we can only imagine that will utilize this technology in the future.
     
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  4. Andrea Borman

    Andrea Borman Honorable Member

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    No I don't think we will ever get that far advanced. That only happens in science fiction movies. And I don't bank or shop on line. It is not safe to give your bank details or credit card details online.And I don't pay my bills online for the same reason.

    When I deal with the bank,the gas or electric company,I just phone them up. And if I was in a restaurant I would order face to face not on a computer.I use the computer for blogging and online social network sites.

    But for real life I deal with official things and everyday life by telephone or face to face meetings. And that means queueing up in shops and banks and all of that.
     
  5. Mike

    Mike Windows Forum Admin
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    Brain-Computer Interface on 60 Minutes:



    Microsoft Surface 2 already at Hard Rock Cafe:



    Controlling PC with Kinect for Windows:



    Tilvus demonstrates BCI (Brain-Computer Interface):



    Apple iPhone Siri Demonstration:



    CES 2012: Tobii Eye-Tracking Prototype



    AT&T Using Microsoft Surface at Five AT&T Retail Stores in US:



    IBM Ability to Store 1 Bit of Data on 12 Atoms:



    Quantum Computing at IBM: Physics of Information Group At IBM Research

    Online Banking:

    - Online Bill Payment Now Mainstream, Women Edge out Men, Says Fiserv Survey (NASDAQ:FISV)

    Near Field Communication already built into Nexus S Smart Phone:



    Sorry, but I disagree. And I pay 90% of all of my bills online.
     
    #145 Mike, Feb 2, 2012
    Last edited: Jul 26, 2013
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  6. whs

    whs Extraordinary Member

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    For the record: A traditional Start menu you can only get in Win8 when you tweak the registry - and then you lose some other goodies in the process (e.g. the new task manager, the ribbon, etc.). I would hope that MS will fix that and give the desktop user an easier way to get a start menu.

    The way it is right now is rather inconvenient - not for the start menu per se, but for the lack of All Programs.
     
  7. davehc

    davehc Microsoft MVP
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    Anf also for the record!(no offence intended whs) just so that we don't step right back into the murk of this thread - there is no such release, yet, of Windows 8. All current references are to the developer.
     
  8. whs

    whs Extraordinary Member

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    I assume that everybody knows that. At least those that talk about Windows8.
     
  9. Andrea Borman

    Andrea Borman Honorable Member

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    But most ordinary computer users like me can only use a computer with a traditional start menu. That's one of the reasons why I can't use Linux. Ubuntu has no start menu and I think Windows 8 reminds me of ubuntu. That is probably why I don't like it.
     
  10. Drew

    Drew Banned

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    I assume that everybody
    Since you know one shouldn't assume, it'll be considered tongue-in-cheek. Look folks, it was a long while ago I & others put in notice in neon lights that there is no Windows * & not to carry on w/ all of this. Do you not see, the efforts are working, the message is not getting through, not heeded or understood.

    Think about it... someone who keeps this up in spite of what all has been said by anyone... Tried "ignore" & many of you have tried to get a message across... maybe it's not working? Options?...

    And, Mike (& others) it's amazing the lengths to which you gone & how you have kindly tried. Sad to see such extensive thought & effort wasted.

    You know I agree it's wasting space, time, value, attention & maybe even tainting 'image'.

    Drew
     
    #150 Drew, Feb 2, 2012
    Last edited: Feb 2, 2012
  11. NaiyaShamiso

    NaiyaShamiso New Member

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    Mike those where some great links. I would so totaly agree to participate in the research to have even users without handicappes. I would totaly risk the use of limbs and body to prove this technology is viable.
     
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  12. Andrea Borman

    Andrea Borman Honorable Member

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    Windows 8 with basic theme 2.. Windows 8 with Windows 7 Aero theme.. Windows Explorer in Windows 8 with Classis Shell toolbar.. Windows 8 without the Metro theme..

    You are not going to believe this but I have done it. I have have given into temptation and I have installed Windows 8 on one of my Windows 7 netbooks.

    This was how I did it-I followed the instructions from the How To Geek website.Which has step by step instructions on how to install Windows 8 alongside Windows 7. I manage to create a 19GB partition. And because I do not have a CD drive I installed Windows 8 by mounting the ISO on virtual clone drive.

    And as you can see from the pictures of my desktop above. I went into the registry and changed the D Word for 1 to 0,like it says on the web. And that disabled both the ribbon and the Metro theme completely. And that gives you the Windows 7 start menu in the Aero theme and Windows 7 basic theme. In the Windows 7 basic theme that is the picture with the white Windows classic style start menu,Aero is partly disabled.

    And so you were right all along,you can get the normal desktop and start menu in Windows 8. And there is no signed of the Merto theme on my computer,even though it is now running Windows 8.

    And the other good news is that Windows 8 run all of the Windows XP,and Windows Vista software that I run on Windows 7. Windows Calendar,the Vista Sidebar,Windows Movie Maker 2.1 for Windows XP(the Windows XP version not the 2011 version.) And the other Windows Movie Makers,6 and 2.6 all run in Windows 8. And so does Windows Live Essentials for Windows XP. And so does WMP 11,which I have installed on Windows 8.

    The only thing that does not work on Windows 8 is Windows Mail but I can use that on Windows 7.

    And so I have to admit I got it wrong about Windows 8. I though that it was this high tech operating system that would be line Linux,difficult to you. But no it is not. And I found that I could use it with the Metro theme but it is better to disable it and have the Windows 7 start menu and desktop. In which as you can see in the pictures I have pinned most of my icons to the desktop. The same way I do in Windows 7 and Windows XP. But there is no Windows Classic,Windows 98 theme, like there was in Windows 7.That disables the Aero or transparency completely in Windows 8.

    When you turn off the Metro theme you get the Windows 7 Aero theme or Windows 7 Basic theme. But it's a start menu and a normal Windows 7 desktop and that's the important thing.

    So I have to admit I was wrong about Windows 8 and at least now I know that. If I did have to buy a new computer and it only had Windows 8. I can run Windows 8 in the same way I can with Windows 7 and Windows XP. And use most of the software from Windows XP,Vista and 7 on Windows 8.

    But I have another problem-because I installed Windows 8 by mounting the ISO file on virtual clone drive.It has wiped out my Windows 7 completely. Windows 7 in no longer on my computer I only have the Windows Old files from Windows 7. And the Windows 8 installation has also wiped out my recovery data on the recovery partition. So now I cannot restore to factory setting to get Windows 7 back,if anything went wrong.

    Yes Windows 8 seems to be working and it is even installing updates. But I know that this is only the developers preview. And it is due to expire in a month or 2 maybe.
    So the question is what do I and other people who are using Windows 8 do after the developers preview expires? Will we be able to upgrade to a more permanent version or not? As I read after the expiry date Windows will no longer activate if the developers preview has expired. And I cannot just go back to Windows 7 on that computer now. As the Windows 8 install has wiped it off of my computer. And I did not know that this would happen. I thought it would install Windows 8 alongside Windows 7. But it did not.It installed Windows 8 OVER Windows 7.

    And as the install wiped off all of the recovery data from my recovery partition as well. I can no longer restore to factory condition anymore on that computer. So I should have some other kind of back up but I don't know how to do this.

    So what should I do? Should I buy myself a Windows 7 CD just in case anything goes wrong,so I can then reinstall Windows 7? I would like some help on this. And even though I am able to use Windows 8 and I am using it with the normal desktop and start menu. I may have problems when the developers preview expires. As after this time we don't know if we can upgrade our Windows 8 to a beta or RC version or not. Andrea Borman.
     
  13. Elmer

    Elmer Extraordinary Member

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  14. Drew

    Drew Banned

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    1. No, cannot "upgrade" from DP to anything. Anything following the DP can only be installed as a clean install.

    2. Although it's too late now... there were 2 options, (A) set up Win 7 & the Win8 DP as a dual-boot scenario & (B) install a virtualization program & create a virtual machine for Win8 which, would then be installed using the ISO. W/out this then, yes, the original OS will get 'overwritten'.

    3. To rectify the situation: No matter if or when the DP may expire, no DP, Beta or RC is to be used as a 'daily driver', primary OS or as it is termed, on a production machine.... only on spare computers, dual-boots or VMs. Not until RTMs or GAs does this change. That said, the only way to fix this is do a clean install of Windows 7. If it does not (though it likely will) find all the drivers, it will be necessary to get them from the computer manufacturers website.

    4. By disabling Metro the new & improved Task Mgr is, also, lost, in addition to Metro & Ribbon.

    @ least you tried (W8) & you're not spewing crap, now. Thanks for telling us we were right though, we did know that, already.

    Drew
     
  15. davehc

    davehc Microsoft MVP
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    Please don't start winding up her clock again.
    As Drew says. But well done, Andrea. And glad to see your "admittance". Just don't understand, with your lack of depth in understanding the install system, why you just didn't go for a dual boot on separate partitions, though.
    P.S. Apologies, Drew, for the overlap. I was typing whilst you were posting!
     
  16. NaiyaShamiso

    NaiyaShamiso New Member

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    Okay, how are you and what did you do with Andrea :rofl:

    Just kidding. It is nice to see that you are working things out on your own. If you can do that then you can install an native OS.
     
  17. Drew

    Drew Banned

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    Dave,

    No worries, mate... it can happen & great minds think alike, no offence. Dave, you know better than to try to understand (wink, wink). Yes, dual boot would have been cool... not sure she knows about that. Nor about telling an OS where to install itself. I think she was trying to go virtual but, w/out virtual software (VMWare, Windows VPC, VirtualBox); live n learn (???)

    There's been tons of folks had this happen & actually did it on purpose. Some did it w/ the W8 DP & many did it whilst we were Beta Testing Windows 7... all, only, to severely regret it later.

    Drew
     
  18. Andrea Borman

    Andrea Borman Honorable Member

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    Here is an image of my netbok. As you can see I thought that I had created the Windows 8 partition you see on the E drive. But my E drive is empty and it installed Windows 8 on my c drive. But for some strange reason it changed the drive letters from C to X drive. And instead has installed Windows 8 on the X drive over my Windows 7.So now I do not have the Windows 7 it anymore. And it wiped out my recovery partition. All I have got left is the Windows old folder but that just has some of my old program files from Windows 7.

    I did not know that the install was going to do this. T thought it would install the Windows 8 on the E partition.

    I posted a new thread herehttp://windows7forums.com/windows-7-support/77211-yes-i-have-installed-windows-8-my-netbook-but-has-wiped-out-my-windows-7-completely-what-should-i-do.html because I now have a new problem. I know that other people here have also installed Windows 8. So what are they and I Windows 8 E drive is empty.Windows 8 is installed on X drive.. going to do when it expires? Andrea Borman.
     
  19. Andrea Borman

    Andrea Borman Honorable Member

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    Well can we not just upgrade our existing version of Windows 8 to the beta version when it is released then. But it is not just me. There are other people here on this forum who have also installed Windows 8 developers build. So are we not all in the same boat? Andrea Borman.
     
  20. Drew

    Drew Banned

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    Andrea, enough w/ the repetition!! I, already, answered this. And, YES, you are all in the same boat.
     

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