Why you should say no to Windows 8 and stick with Windows 7.

Discussion in 'Windows 7 Installation' started by Andrea Borman, Jan 15, 2012.

  1. catilley1092

    catilley1092 Extraordinary Member

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    Not me!:biggrin: I'm sticking with Windows 7, but not for the reasons that this thread began on.

    Windows 7 does what I need it to do, it's as simple as that. I don't need to create a 16 page (and running) thread to convince others as to what to do. Each user should run what he/she wishes, it's as simple as that.

    Cat
     
  2. Elmer

    Elmer Extraordinary Member

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    Well said Cat. Now, about the Windows 9 Developer...................

    Some folks are running the 8 developer as their main system.

    Winkers is the only word I can think of (did I spell it right??).
     
  3. Andrea Borman

    Andrea Borman Honorable Member

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    Well I have just been told by another member on the other thread.That there is going to be a Windows 8 beta or consumer build.That we can install over the developers preview of Windows 8 or over Windows 7 XP or Vista. And that we will be able to use that for a year. And then upgrade to or buy a permanent version of Windows 8 I presume.

    So if that's true then that should solve mine and other Windows 8 users problems.

    And I have to admit I was wrong about Windows 8. As it has got a Windows 7 or Windows Vista start menu. And it does have a normal Windows desktop that you can pin icons to.Just like you can in Windows 7 and Windows XP.It you change the registry key value from 1 to 0. Or install one of the apps to disable the Metro. Although to my surprise I found that I could use it with the metro theme. But it is faster without the metro theme.

    And I would recommend that unless you want to use the Metro apps which most people don't. It is better to disable the Metro theme and have the Windows 7 theme instead. As you don't really need it.

    And I am running all of my Windows XP and Windows Vista and Windows 7 software in Windows 8.

    so I am going to hang onto my Windows 8 for a while and upgrade to the beta version,when it is released. And I am still going to use my Windows 7 and Windows XP of course.

    But at least I know now that Windows 8 can be used. And that you can have a normal start menu and desktop on Windows 8. And run most of your Windows XP and Windows Vista software.

    So now I won't have to stock up on computers after all. Andrea Borman.
     
  4. catilley1092

    catilley1092 Extraordinary Member

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    Great Deal Andrea! Welcome to 2012!

    Yes, you'll be able to use the beta, then the RC of Windows 8, for probably 6 months after Windows 8 becomes RTM (available for retail purchase). I was using the Windows Developer Preview, both on a regular install & through VirtualBox. After running it for a couple of weeks, and testing to see if my most used Windows 7/XP/2000 apps worked, and most did, I decided to wait for the beta before proceeding further.

    Being that it's built to run well on low powered computers, I may purchase it for my desktop, a HP MS214 AIO, with a 1.5GHz dual core CPU (very anemic). It runs faster than any OS that I have installed on it. But I'll have to wait & see.

    What I may do, and it'll cost less, is renew my TechNet subscription, but only a desktop one, which will cost less. With the 25% off discount that they send me often, it'll be under $200. That 2 keys for every version of Windows from XP through the current version, every version of Office, from 2003. A lot of software for the money. Plus, I'll be getting Windows 8 Pro for $100 less than buying the full retail version. And although the subscription is only for a year, the keys are good for life, as long as I keep the keys to myself (that's part of the EULA of the program).

    But I'll use my other Windows Live address to register, so that they don't re-issue me the same keys that I already have.

    Hope that you enjoy the upcoming Windows 8, and keep in mind some of the things, maintainance items that I mentioned above. A computer is a machine, and just as any other machinery, needs keeping up.

    Best of Luck with your future endeavors.

    Cat
     
    1 person likes this.
  5. Mike

    Mike Windows Forum Admin
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    While it is very possible to upgrade from XP to Windows Vista, this functionality was not supported in Windows 7 to prevent compatibility and support problems. It is my understanding that a lot of development time went into Windows 7 itself, and not so much the installer. If the development teams were given the go-ahead to work on an upgrade path from Windows XP, it is very possible for them to do so. The problem will be driver compatibility for a lot of people. But given the new data we are seeing, people are split between Windows 7 and Windows XP and have virtually ignored Windows Vista when possible. Adding this feature may encourage retail and VLK sales for owners of Windows XP.

    Here is some data to support your claim: OS Statistics

    It is obvious to see why an upgrade path from Windows XP would be in their interest.
     
  6. catilley1092

    catilley1092 Extraordinary Member

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    I knew that XP was falling, but didn't realize that it fell that far. A huge drop in 2011 alone.

    Probably a lot of this is due to not only an aggressive campaign by MS, but also by huge discounts by major retailers/etailers on new computers (netbooks, notebook/laptops & desktops combined). The cost for a major repair on an old computer can go a long ways toward a brand new one.

    And users are deciding to get "in tune with the times". Although many XP users didn't agree with it, and MS probably received a lot of negative feedback over it, denying the IE9 install to XP users was probably a turning point. The ride, or "unofficial" support of XP began at that time.

    I still use it some, especially XP MCE, but I'm a realist also. XP is dying a slow death. But as I've stated before, many users will ride the wheels off XP, including myself. Fortunately, it's not my primary OS, Windows 7 Pro x64 (on a PC & notebook) is. My older OS's are a hobby to me.

    And in years to come, Windows 7 will be just as XP, an OS that will live a long life, and when the time comes, it'll take cutting support for the OS for users to move forward. That's because Windows 7 is just that good.

    Cat
     
  7. NaiyaShamiso

    NaiyaShamiso New Member

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    That is such a funny chart to read. I like how they started out with a 6 month a year scope and then changed it to 12 month a year on the fourth year. LMAO Like some one lost thir job and had more free time to take the pols LMAO Then what is the deal with doing statistics on 2003. NT, 2000, Linux and Mac all come in Server versions, but they also come in Workstation sersions as well. 2003 is the only one on the list that only come in Server. The reason for the name Windows Server 2003. So I would have to say that using that in the statistics was a waste of time. I would bet I would be be able to pad the numbers on 2003 and make it look like there are more 2003 systems running in the world than XP, Vista and 7 combined.

    Cat I like the way you think. You sound to be really down to earth about comoputing. XP is going to be out soon enough, just for the simple fact of the 32 Bit limitations. Yes there is a 64 Bit version of XP, though I have my reservations about how stable it is. Driver problems all the time not to mention that it was an after thought, something put together like four to six yeras after the original release. Microsoft has enough problmes getting the original intended releases working little alone an after thought. So back to the 32 Bit thought, video games like Skyrim are running the recomended at 4 GB system, and that is the limit to the 32 Bit system. Not far from now there will be a time when 32 Bit just wont be able to keep up because of this. That would be why migrating to a newer OS would be so important to me. Dose that make since?
     
  8. Mike

    Mike Windows Forum Admin
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    Hi Naiya,

    Granted that a site like that is not the only good source for information. I believe that they get their statistics from the people who visit their network of sites. Most end-users do not even know what W3C is. So from that perspective, it is important to look at other data and compare it for consistency. Then, there is the fact that a significant number of people in certain regions of the world make up a large population of the world, but either do not have direct access to the Internet or western websites. So how accurate this data is remains up to conjecture. There may also be a small percentage of browsers that do not pass the correct (or any) user agent string with OS when visiting websites.

    Usage share of operating systems - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    For this website, over the last two years:

    Windows 94.76%
    Not set: 0.50%

    7 73.87%
    XP 19.66%
    Vista 5.88%
    Server 2003 0.41%
    2000 0.11%
    NT 0.06%
    98 0.01%
    CE 0.01%

    Hopefully you can see where there is a problem with data from a single source, unless it is a large portal site. The majority of people here are going to be using Windows and Windows 7... if the site had something to do with servers or mobile phones, the result would be entirely different. How reliable these statistics are, from all kinds of sources, is debatable. I believe with the major counters, there is greater than a 10% margin of error. And I am not sure that Google publishes its own statistics.

    In 2004, Google pulled the information it was, and still clearly is, collecting about browsers from across its entire network. Google Browser Stats Removed | Hacking for Christ. For a company like that, you could say that total information awareness is their goal, but not necessarily for anyone else anymore, in many cases.
     
  9. Drew

    Drew Banned

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    Point of interest...

    The # of Windows 7 users surpassed XP as of the end of August 2011.

    _______________________________________________________________________________________________

    Now, don't get me wrong here, certainly not meaning to be obstenate or argumentitive nor pompous...

    Back around a time somewhat before the release of Vista, definately when XP was still THE OS of the day I founded the IT Pro User Group in Calgary. It helped give me a bit of an 'inside' take on some things, a certain perspective, insight & understanding & an awareness of things both bold & subtle. Some presentations from MS & others that were extremely enlightening. Then we moved into the transition towards Vista... seminars introducing people to it, how to set-up dual-boots & virtualize & what had gone on 'under the covers' technically. Then I went on the beta test both Vista & Windows 7 for 1 year each.

    The only reason I mention this (background) & relationship w/ MS & Windows Operating Systems is because it has brought me to firmly believing the following:

    >> For many years & many Windows, 1 OS was built on or a progression of the one or ones before it. Until Vista and again,even, moreso w/ Windows7. There are deep down fundamental, foundational differences between the 2 platforms.
    >> Certain migration paths from one OS to another are either not possible or @ the very least, really bad ideas.
    >> Of XP, Vista & Win7, 7 is the best; certainly the most secure.
    >> Humans have a hard time w/ change in the context of computing.
    >> XP was good in its but, that day is not today or the future. It had a good life & all good things come to an end. Clinging to it now is a bit silly.
    >> Installing anything but, an RTM or GA as a primary, main or production OS is wrong. Replacing a non-beta OS w/ anything below RTM or GA is wrong & can be disasterous.
    >> Updating & upgrading are not the same things. Upgrade, in this context is more a procedure, a method than anything. One might achieve "New & Improved" or different (ie x86 to x64) but, not by doing an Upgrade.

    MS took a new & different road after XP & the same can be said of Windows 8. The proliferation & quality of Windows 7 does mean it will be in widespread use for a long time... legacy OSs will not. However, that said, Windows 8 is looking into the future of computing & the technological decades ahead. I could write or speak for hours if I was to expand on & really delve into explaining this concept as many factors & aspects come into play. How necessary things are is a poser... we survived a long time w/out handheld devices that do everything but, wash dishes. Demands are changing/have changed, the residential enviornment is vastly different than 5 yrs ago, business concerns from SMBs to Enterprise have little similarity to 5 or ten yrs ago. Far more security is demanded & needed, more speed, power & size is felt to be imperative & taken for granted, consistency across multiple & varied devices, amzing strides in graphics, video rendering & web design. We are living in an ever evolving world of electric cars, space stations, kids that text, TB HDDs, cameras that double as phones & mobile offices (er, maybe they are phones 1st, not sure sometimes), work forces w/out desks and touchscreens.

    Welcome tomorrow & welcome to tomorrow.

    Drew

     
    #169 Drew, Feb 12, 2012
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2012
  10. Mike

    Mike Windows Forum Admin
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    I absolutely agree with you that Windows Vista was a fundamental upgrade, and sincerely believe that at the time of its release hardware had simply not risen to the level necessary, for most existing XP users, as well as within the hardware industry as a whole, for many businesses, municipalities, and agencies to perform an upgrade from Windows XP. The main problem in this area were the fundamental changes made to the Windows kernel and the justifiably intense focus on security, which did not necessarily go hand-in-hand with performance. As we both know from experience, the problems associated with Windows Vista, especially after the release of Service Pack 1, were very much related to poor driver support from manufacturers. The key issue here is that manufacturers had, quite literally, over a year to adapt to the new technology and security apparatus that Microsoft was installing into the operating system. Technical whitepapers, explanations of changes in functionality, and technical previews were made well in advance of release. The final release bits were even withheld for quite awhile for hardware manufacturers to get their act together. In many cases, with core partners, it is my understanding that parts of the source code itself are provided to them for development. As to how often and how much code is shared, is up to debate, but my point is that there was plenty of time for extensive driver support for Vista. The main complaints about Windows Vista after Service Pack 1 did not hold water, aside from the fact that there was a noticeable performance loss in relation to similar systems running Windows XP, you could consider XP a beast in the wild, ready to literally be "hacked to pieces" compared to Windows Vista. To further put a nail in the coffin, the same security review companies and IT magazines that had, in the past, lambasted Windows XP for its poor security measures and "Fischer Price" interface, found new axes to grind with Windows XP's successor.

    When looking at it from hindsight, Windows Vista was a fully capable and highly advanced operating system, optimized for multi-core processors with an advanced graphical user interface. The learning curve problem stated by Windows XP users, to me, was completely overblown. The release of Service Pack 1 for Windows Vista resolved nearly all of the release issues which gave the operating system such a black eye in the press and via word of mouth. While there were some issues, in nearly all cases, in my support operations, I found these issues to be driver and upgrade related. You will recall that Service Pack 1 for Windows Vista increased both stability and performance tremendously by actually upgrading the operating system kernel with the enhancements brought forth with the Windows Server 2008 kernel.

    Now, looking at how the Windows-family of client systems has advanced since Windows Vista, I can see a clear and concise performance improvement with Windows 7. But I also see an entirely different world. The capability of multi-core processors and video graphics adapters has made the idea of running Windows Aero a non-issue, even when Aero resource consumption was reduced significantly between the two releases. I see a less repugnant and annoying User Account Control and more functionality in these areas. I see very clearly that this operating system was put through rigorous testing for maximum performance and security, as well as compatibility. And wherefore those detractors who still harkens back to the days of Windows XP will bemoan compatibility issues with ancient software and peripheral devices that have long since been abandoned by their developers, that excuse is long since forfeit with the ability to download and install Microsoft Windows XP Mode for Virtual PC. In a sense, Microsoft has not just provided you with the most subtle and agile operating system of the modern era, but they have also provided virtual license to the predecessor for which all detractors could use to rebuff their efforts.

    Thus, in a sense, I do not believe in a justification of an upgrade from Windows XP to Windows 8. Such an idea is ridiculous, but proven possible, albeit stupid, by upgrading XP to Vista to 7 over the course of a long wait. The result of such an upgrade process leaves unwanted and unused file remnants everywhere and wastes an enormous and unnecessarily large amount of disk space. Do I believe it would be possible for Microsoft to streamline the process of upgrading from Windows XP to Windows 8 and make it possible in a correct way? Absolutely. Do I believe it would be a waste of resources to do so? Perhaps not. While people who focus on new technology releases look for, and quickly adopt a new version of Windows, there are those who have simply avoided the process altogether due to the problems that were associated with Windows Vista in the national headlines, and thus spread by word of mouth.

    When I look at the issue from a business standpoint, it is clear to me that many companies and organizations are stuck in Windows XP land. They have decided to adopt a fortress policy, and during this difficult economic meltdown have decided to keep their infrastructure Windows XP based. Over the long-term, whether by necessity or by design, Microsoft has made this a bad strategy for businesses that are serious about technological training, success, and productivity. With many businesses still running Windows XP, with the popularity of 32-bit based software models showing early signs of waning, and with the product support timeline slowly ticking down, one only has to look at the logistics of upgrading that infrastructure versus not doing so. I believe it will be businesses, both large and small, that are deterministic in whether or not Windows 8 will have this rumored upgrade option from Windows XP. Simply put, Windows XP has outlived its usefulness. As a legacy operating system to run in a virtual machine for compatibility reasons, along with the likes of Windows 2000 and Windows 98, it is a fine piece of software. But at some point, those who have been using a computer since the start of the Iraq war must come to terms with the fact that they have gotten all of the money's worth possible from both their hardware and operating system software investment. And after eleven (11) years of Windows XP being a mainstream operating system, we are now entering a danger zone to continue using this operating system. While it is true that attack surfaces can always be minimized, there is no way to eliminate a looming security threat entirely. Windows XP will be abandoned once it becomes clear to the majority of consumers who have adopted to continue using it that the rest of the world has moved on, and there is little they can do with this system that will not make it fall apart.

    And while I have no qualms about someone using their favorite system for whatever purpose, it is quite clear to me that continued use of Windows XP is not only a significant security problem for the owner of that computer -- it is also a serious risk for everyone around that client system's router. I'd like to state that for anyone who has any final doubts about migrating to Windows 7 being a bad idea, perhaps in part to the troubles you see on this website, I must encourage you to imagine the troubles that many people who come here for support would be facing if they were still in Windows XP. Most of our support forums would be loitered with problems related to security compromises, complete loss of the operating system, and so forth. It is my sincere hope that if Windows 8 does come around with significant improvements in its functionality and design, which I believe it will, that people will not continue to allow their system to age. Your computer is not a fine wine! It is a depreciating asset. XP users should consider their options carefully, as the operating system slowly becomes one that is associated with a dinosaur era.
     
    #170 Mike, Feb 12, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 12, 2012
  11. Andrea Borman

    Andrea Borman Honorable Member

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    Well I have been using Windows XP for a year now. Since I bought the last 2 Windows XP netbooks in the shop. And i have not has any problems with it.And I have never had any computer viruses or security compromises on my computer. And if Microsoft stop supporting Windows XP in 2014 like the articles on the web say they will. I will still carry on using it,if my computers still work then.

    And Windows 7 I have not had any problems with and if you set your theme to Windows Classic.It disables the Aero theme and makes it look like Windows XP. And you can install Classic Shell to get the Windows XP start menu.

    As you know I have just installed Windows 8 3 days ago on Thursday. And I have disabled the Metro theme and now it looks just like Windows 7. But unlike Windows 7.On Windows 8 there is no Windows Classic theme,just Windows 7 Aero transparent theme or Windows 7 Basic. So although I have A Windows 7 start menu in Windows 8 and I have installed Classic Shell to get extra start menu features. My theme is set to Windows 7 basic theme.Well it's not it is Windows 8 basic theme so the Aero theme is partly disabled but not completely like it is in Windows 7. Where you can set it to Windows Classic.

    But I have got a Windows start menu and that's the main thing. Also I am running all of my Windows XP,Vista and 7 software in Windows 8. The only thing that does not work on Windows 8 is Windows Mail. But I even have WMP 11 running on Windows 8 along with Windows Movie Maker 2.1 for Windows XP and the other Windows Movie Makers 2.6,and 6. And Windows Sidebar,that's the Vista Sidebar works on Windows 8 both with or without the Metro theme enabled. And so does Windows Calendar work on Windows 8.

    In fact Windows 8 is exactly like Windows 7 and looks like it when you turn off the Metro theme.I have turned off UAC. The one thing that I have not been able to disable is that Smart Screen that like UAC is very annoying. Every time I turn off Smart Screen by going into the settings. It then turns itself back on again.

    Has anyone else got the same problem? Andrea Borman.
     
  12. hiqasim

    hiqasim Banned

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    after my 3 years experience with Windows, I found it very hard to leave Windows 7 and move to Windows 8
     
  13. Drew

    Drew Banned

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    Yep, 7 is great but, on the bright side, you have, @ least, 9 months to get used to 8 (if you're going to use it anytime soon) before it's even released for General use (was so tempted to say born instead of released...get it?, 9 months... oh, geeesh, lol) Humans hate change but, yet, can adapt, too.
     
  14. Andrea Borman

    Andrea Borman Honorable Member

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    Well we are not officially in Windows 8 yet. That is, we are using the Developers preview, but you cannot buy it in the shops. But Microsoft are bringing out the Consumer Preview on 29th February which is tomorrow.

    And as the Developers Preview expires on 11th March.We will either have to upgrade to Windows 8 Consumer Preview or go back to Windows 7,Windows XP or whatever version of Windows we were using before. Andrea Borman.
     
  15. whs

    whs Extraordinary Member

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    Tomorrow is going to be the big rush everybody trying to download the Consumer Preview. The Microsoft servers will probably be at their limits. I will wait a couple of days before I download it. Once the initial rush is over, it will most likely be faster - well, faster in relativ terms because it will be between 4 and 5GBs - and that will take a few hours in any case.
     
  16. Trouble

    Trouble Noob Whisperer

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    Do I detect some calm, clear, sane logic? Or some very clever and diabolical reverse psychology.
    You're not fooling me.... me.... me... me..
     
    1 person likes this.
  17. whs

    whs Extraordinary Member

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    No reverse psychology - just a pragmatic approach based on my experience with the Win7 Beta download. Although Win7 Beta was a bit different because everybody was running for the Product Key.
     
    #177 whs, Feb 28, 2012
    Last edited: Feb 28, 2012
  18. catilley1092

    catilley1092 Extraordinary Member

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    I'm getting up a bit early in the morning, to find the link. Since I use "Down Them All" in FF as my d/l manager, it'll pick up where it leaves off, should there be any slowdowns, as I'm positive that there will be. I'm looking for it to take quite some time, even with my 6.0 Mbps connection. That way, I can get a bit of extra rest.

    However, 9AM on a Wednesday morning is better than anytime after 5PM on a Friday through the weekend. Many people will be at work/school, and will probably have more trouble connecting in the afternoon than in the morning. Come the weekend, it'll be harder to connect to the servers, as the students will be flooding the servers for the OS.

    The early bird usually gets the worm.

    Cat
     
  19. NaiyaShamiso

    NaiyaShamiso New Member

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    Yea, but remember to run the "Download Windows 8 Consumer Preview" link first even if all you want to do is download the .iso. You will need to get the product key from there to use with the image. Just a heads up, I made that mistake.
     
  20. Andrea Borman

    Andrea Borman Honorable Member

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    I installed Windows 8 Consumer Preview and unfortunately it is NOTHING like the Developers Preview. Which was quite a good OS and you could disabled the Metro theme.And have a Classic,a Windows XP or Windows 7 start menu both with the Metro theme enabled or disabled.

    But in Windows 8 CP this is not the case and also the operating systems is quite unusable. See my post here on the Windows 8 forums-Comsumer Preview Download - Page 2

    There is no way to disable Metro theme on Windows 8 CP none of the software or registry edits work. And classic Shell does not work in consumer preview. And you cannot even pin shortcuts to your desktop due to a problem with the ribbon toolbar in Windows Explorer. That freezes your mouse and won't let you right click to select send to desktop to create a shortcut.

    If you don't believe me you can try Windows 8 consumer preview for yourself. And you will uninstall it like I did and go back to Windows 7. Andrea Borman.
     

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