Application: Classic Shell

Discussion in 'Windows 7 Software' started by NaiyaShamiso, Jul 24, 2011.

  1. NaiyaShamiso

    NaiyaShamiso New Member

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    They can get away with out updates from Microsoft, because they are independent from Microsoft. They do all their own updating and it doesn't matter what Microsoft sends out.

    It sucks that Windows has so many updates, but it is the only way to get it even remotely secure. LoL
     
  2. Andrea Borman

    Andrea Borman Honorable Member

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    Yes,when I first use my computer after I have done a factory restore, I have to install over 100 updates all over again. And it takes ages. On Windows XP it takes a lot less time to install updates but on Windows 7 it takes a lot longer. Windows 7 is slower than Windows XP. Most of these updates are just up to date installations of Microsoft and Windows software. Just like installing a new version of Firefox or Pidgin,the updates install a newer version of Windows Defender or Silverlight and other software. And I have often wondered if it would be quicker to just go onto the Microsoft website and install the updated version of the software I want. Just like I have to to update Firefox.

    But many of these updates are also security updates but I don't know if they do any good or not. I have automatic updating turned off. So I just check for updates when I want to in my own time. And that way I just choose the updates I want and reject the ones I don't want. This stops Windows Update from installing unwanted software on my computer.

    On Windows 7 and Windows XP you tick never install updates to turn off automatic updating. And then when you check for updates manually on Windows 7 you tick hide update so you don't get the unwanted update again. And on Windows XP you select custom install to stop automatic updates being turned on and to select only the updates you want to install. Then to hide update tick don't show this update again.

    The interesting thing about Windows XP's updating system is that you can choose to install updates by going onto the website through a web browser or from control panel. Although if you don't want to use Internet Explorer to do this you can use another Trident Internet Explorer engine based browser such as Advanced browser or Green browser but not Firefox or Google Chrome. But any Trident engine browser such as Avant browser and other, will let you install updates from the website in Windows XP.

    But when I am on Windows XP,I choose to install my updates from control panel as I think it is safer than going onto the web in a web browser. But on Windows Vista and Windows 7,you cannot install updates from the website in a web browser. You can only install them through control panel.Andrea Borman.
     
    #62 Andrea Borman, Aug 28, 2011
    Last edited: Aug 28, 2011
  3. NaiyaShamiso

    NaiyaShamiso New Member

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    It takes longer to install updates on Vista/7, partly because of the size of the updates and partly because of the hardware you are running. Speed of the hard drive, RAM and processor makes a big difference. Like I have said many times, it is the hardware that makes your OS slow. You have to look at what update it is to know what it is for. There are a good amount of .net framework updates. Updating with Windows Update is more along the lines of downloading what you need, not the full install application. It is more likely to change just .dlls and such files. That would be apposed to other softwares like Pidgin. Although FireFox can self update, and it doesn't require downloading the entire install package, just what it needs at the time. Windows Defender doesn't change versions, it may change the build, but not version. Although most of the updates for Defender are just new definitions. No, it will be slower to install from the Microsoft website, because you will have to download a patch that is almost 5 time larger then waht you may need. One of the features that comes in Windows Update is the ability to know what you need and what you don't

    Yes, lots of security updates. You have a legal copy of Windows, so you need to get all the updates that are important. It is a bad idea to disable updates. The best thing to set it to is download all updates, but let me choose what to install. That will keep the list up to day, but wont just install with out you looking and saying yes, it is okay. Also, when you do choose to do the updates, it will take less time because the updates are already downloaded.

    The XP update only runs through a web browser. At the time there was no other way. There are other browser that will allow you to install updates from, but I wouldn't do it.
     
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  4. Andrea Borman

    Andrea Borman Honorable Member

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    Windows Update in Pink browser-in Windows XP. Windows Update in control panel-in Windows XP.. Windows Update site-Windows 7..

    The first photo is of the Windows Update website in Pink browser in my Windows XP. The second photo is of Windows Update in control panel in my Windows XP. And the the third photo is of the Windows Update website in my Windows 7 in Advanced browser.

    In Windows XP you can install updates in any Internet Explorer engine based browser,like Pink Browser,Advanced browser or Green browser and others.If you don't want to use Internet Explorer. But not in Chrome or Firefox based browsers. And you can also install updates direct from control panel in Windows XP without going onto a web browser.

    But in Windows 7 and Windows Vista you cannot install updates at all from a web browser.You can only install them from control panel. And as you can see in the third picture, that shows the Windows Update website in Windows 7 in Advanced browser. When you go to the Windows Update website in Windows 7,you get a message telling you to go to control panel. And it is the same thing in Windows Vista,you cannot install update from a web browser,only from control panel.

    So the updates system is slightly different in Windows Vista and Windows 7, from what it is in Windows XP. But when I am on Windows XP, I always install updates from control panel as I think it is safer than through a web browser. Andrea Borman.
     
  5. NaiyaShamiso

    NaiyaShamiso New Member

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    That is still installing from a website run on a browser, just the tool bars are different. It may be Explorer or Internet Explorer, and the shortcut has arguments in it that change the way that the tool bars are set up. Also the one in Pink Browser is an older version. Should still work just fine. But it is the pre SP3 site. it was introduced when SP2 hit really hard and SP1 was mandatory.

    Technically the Vista and 7 are webpages as well, but they are stored locally, and then do a secure remote query of the server. It also stores queries locally so it looks like it is fast as hell, but if you install say Office, and then click check for updates it will take hella long, and then come back with like 50 extra. It is the best so far.

    As for using third party software for installing updates. I guess that is a toss up. It is a good idea to find something that is better and more secure than Internet Exploder. But then again do you know how secure that browser is. Are they set up to protect against man in the meddle attacks. It is a big risk but, most of using a computer is.
     
  6. Andrea Borman

    Andrea Borman Honorable Member

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    On Windows XP you have a choice of installing updates through a web browser or from control panel without going onto a web browser. But you can only install updates in Internet Explorer or in Trident engine which are Internet Explorer engine based browsers,like Pink browser,Advanced browser or more well known Avant browser or Green browser and browsers like that. But it will not work in Gecko engine based browsers,such as Firefox or Webkit engine based ones,such as Google Chrome. So you will not be able to install updates from the Windows Update website in Firefox or Google Chrome.

    But it you can in Green browser,Avant browser and other browsers like that because they use Internet Explorers engine and html code. But the disadvantage of Pink browser,Avant browser and other Trident engine browsers is that they use the html code of what ever version of Internet Explorer you have on your computer. So if for example you have IE6, those browsers will use the html code of IE6 and display web pages in that mode.

    On Windows 7 I have IE8 and even though I have deleted the IE8 browser by deleting the file on programs on C/drive,Internet Explorer 8 is still on the registry. So Advanced browser and Pink browser use the html code of IE8 and display web pages in IE8 mode.

    On Windows XP I have got IE6 which I have not uninstalled, but I just never use it. But I have often wondered if you choose instead to use Avant browser or Green browser and browsers like that. To go onto sites that require Internet Explorer like Windows Update, but you don't want to use Internet Explorer. So you use a browser like Pink browser or Avant browser and such. But by using browsers like Avant browser-Are you really just using Internet Explorer or another version of it anyway without knowing it? I cannot get a straight answer to this question on Google.

    But on both Windows XP and Windows 7,you can turn Internet Explorer off. In Windows XP go to add or remove Windows components and untick the box(tick the box to enable it again) and in Windows 7 got to turn Windows features on or off,and untick the box(tick the box to enable it again.)

    And in Windows 7 this disables it completely until you turn it on again.

    But in Windows XP,it only partly disables the program,so even though you have turned it off,it will pop up again if it is needed.

    And on Windows 7 and Windows Vista you cannot install updates at all through a web browser,only in control panel. Andrea Borman.
     
  7. OldTimer

    OldTimer Banned

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    One error kind'a negates the whole post, Eh?

    You can get MS Updates and many other sites using 'Coral I.E. Tab' in Firefox.
    This includes all those sites specifically written for I.E.

    Firefox is becoming more and more compatible with I.E. sites with every update, but the above mentioned add-on really works good.

    I know there are dozens of add-ons for Firefox, but to keep it simple (KISS) I use only I.E.Tab and AdBlock+.

    Works for me!

    Old Timer :cool:
     
  8. nmsuk

    nmsuk Windows Forum Admin
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    Why are you still using IE6, using this your putting your machine at risk from malicious content. If your going to use IE please use the latest. The same goes for any browser use the latest as they get updated with security fixes all the time. Your proctice of using IE6 and not using AV is in my opinion fool hardy.
     
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  9. OldTimer

    OldTimer Banned

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    "Fool Hardy"?
    You must be a UN Diplomat. :confused:
    I'm just an Iowa farm boy and I would'a just said "Dumber than a stump". Eh?

    I was painfully aware of I.E.'s security holes as far back as I can remember, so I and millions of others used Netscape for years.
    Then along came Firefox and I jumped on that like a goose on a June-bug!

    If you have Auto Updates turned on, you're going to get I.E. 8 whether you intend to or not. :( Stuff happens!

    Firefox is still updating version 3.6 (up to 3.6.20 now) even though they have released ver's 4, 5, 6, and now 7.
    Personally, I like 3.6 the best. It just seems more user friendly.
    And with the 'Coral I.E. Tab' add-on, I never need to actually open I.E. to go to any I.E. specific web site, even
    MS Updates.


    Cheers Mates!
    Old Timer :cool:
     
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  10. nmsuk

    nmsuk Windows Forum Admin
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    Being a Moderator I have to be diplomatic. I can't attack an op however much I disagree with them. Each their own, glad non of those systems are mine though :)
     
  11. OldTimer

    OldTimer Banned

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    My bad!
    We Old Timers have that problem..... we tend to say what we think regardless of who we're saying it to or the consequences.

    But when we're supposed to be here to help the nubes and casual users, with the best information we can,
    it's counter productive to tell someone to NOT use any AV, AS or AM software. Heck I use it all and share it
    all with my customers. If someone is going to be S$%&@, at least they should keep it to themselves.

    I have my own forum (annonymous) and I'd ban someone for advocating NOT using AV/AS software.
    The best AV software companies in the world, provide a FREE version of their software, to cut down on
    the number of viruses and spyware circulating in the Wild.

    I've heard a few say that AV software slows down their PC too much. Cheeeech! Their PC must be a real dog
    loaded up with every POC possible. Clean up that mess and the AV software won't slow it down.
    I run AVG 2011 Internet Security and MalwareBytes Pro both on my own PC and they don't slow it down a bit.

    I had to work on a kid's PC this past week. It had NO AV and AS software. It did however have several trojans
    posing as AV/AS software. I had to remove literally hundreds of pieces of spyware and viruses and Trojans.
    Then clean out over 100,000 temp and junk files. Then replace several drivers that were totally missing.
    It was amazing that the PC still ran. (sort of)
    Some local jerkwad PC tech had put in a mis-matched pair of RAM sticks and only one was even working, leaving
    the little PC with only 256meg's of ram.
    I have a solution for tech's like that, but Tar and Feathering has been deemed illegal. Shucks!

    When will they ever learn?

    Y'all have a great day now, Y'hear?
    Old Timer :cool:
     
    #71 OldTimer, Aug 29, 2011
    Last edited: Aug 29, 2011
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  12. nmsuk

    nmsuk Windows Forum Admin
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    I hate tech's like that. I'm all for making a profit but even the dumbest of tech's know never to use mismatched RAM. I've also tested machines I've built before letting the user near it, if it doesn't pass memtest and a 25hr prime95 it's not being handed over.

    Tar and feathering is Illegal guess I didn't get that memo ;)
     
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  13. Andrea Borman

    Andrea Borman Honorable Member

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    I have been on Windows XP computers in Internet cafes, that have upgraded from the default IE6 to IE7 or IE8 and it has slowed down the system. It is the same on Windows 7 when I upgraded from IE8 to IE9. So I went back to IE8.

    Windows XP comes with IE6,Windows Vista with IE7, and Windows 7 with IE8.

    But it makes no difference. All IEs look alike except for IE9,which looks different,but is no better than the rest. Actually the worst is IE7,which may be all right for Windows Vista, but works poor on anything else.

    And as I never use Internet Explorer anyway,it does not affect me. Although if I had Windows 2000,that comes with IE5,you need at least IE5.5 in order to get updates. So you would have to upgrade and a lot a lot of web pages do not display properly in IE5 and IE5.5.

    But the highest version of Internet Explorer you can upgrade to in Windows 2000,is IE6. In Windows 98,it is IE6 and in Windows 95 it is IE5.5.

    The only programs I removed from Windows XP are Windows Messenger 4.7, because it won't let you sign into it.You get a message telling you it is no longer supported,telling you to upgrade to Windows Live Messenger. And I removed MSN Explorer web browser because you have to pay to use it. And I don't want to do that. So these two programs were pretty much useless.

    But the Internet gossips I read about Windows XP having more viruses are not true. I have not installed any anti virus software on my Windows XP. Just like I have not installed any anti virus software on my Windows 7. And I have never got a computer virus on my Windows XP.

    But I have installed Windows Defender on my Windows XP. Because for some reason it did not come with Windows XP and I have it on my Windows 7. Windows XP also has got Malicious Software removal Tool-MRT,like Windows 7 has. Andrea Borman.
     
    #73 Andrea Borman, Aug 29, 2011
    Last edited: Aug 29, 2011
  14. OldTimer

    OldTimer Banned

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    I cut my teeth as a service tech at NCR, (circa 1964) repairing cash registers and bank accounting machines.
    They were either 100% correct or they were 100% wrong.
    I've carried that discipline over to my work with PC's. They're either Right or they're Wrong.

    But knowingly putting bad or mis-matched parts in a customer's PC is just plain criminal.
    Every PC I work on gets the Full Treatment, just like as if I were working on my own PC.
    They get cleaned, de-loused and optimized.
    Then they get a complete 'Package' of anti Malware software. Even AVG FREE will get an update and
    run a scan every day, automatically. NO user intervention required.

    I regularly get comments like, "DANG! This thing ain't even run this fast when it was new!"

    My admonishion to anyone mucking about with computers, "If you can't do it right, leave it alone".

    What was the topic again?:confused:

    OH YES! Classic Shell. I won't set up a PC these days, without it. Nice program.
    It makes Windows 7 look and act less like it was written on Mars.

    :cool:
     
    #74 OldTimer, Aug 29, 2011
    Last edited: Aug 29, 2011
  15. Andrea Borman

    Andrea Borman Honorable Member

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    Firefox 3 is now discontinued and has been replaced with Firefox 5. So now there is no Firefox 3.6. But if you prefer Firefox 3.6 to Firefox 4 or 5,you can get Pale Moon browser. Which is a Firefox browser made only for Windows. Pale Moon comes either in version 3.6.20 which the same as Firefox 3.6.20, but they also do Pale Moon 5. Which is the same as Firefox 5 but Pale Moon have no plans to discontinue their 3.6 versions.

    So you have a choice of either Pale Moon 3 or Pale Moon 5. I have got Pale Moon 3,which I find is faster than Firefox. And I have also got Safefox 3.51 another Firefox based browser based on Firefox 3.5.1,an earlier version of Firefox.

    You could also try Wyzo,another browser that is based on Firefox 3. But there is nothing that is very much different from Windows 7 from Windows XP. Apart from the fact that Windows XP does not have transparent-Areo themes-which I don't use on my Windows 7 anyway. But if you have used Windows Vista,or Windows XP,Windows 7 is very much like that really.

    And the nice thing about Classic Shell is that I can also have a Windows XP start menu on Windows 7,as well as a better classic start menu. Than the one that is provided on Windows XP,which has just basic features.

    Since I got my Windows XP Netbooks,which I use as well as my Windows 7 ones. I have always said that Windows XP is Windows 7,just an earlier version of it. As the system and settings are very similar to Windows 7,with only a few differences. It is just that Windows XP has a lot more software and theme support included in it. So you don't have to install any extra software. And it takes up less ram than Windows 7. So it is faster than Windows 7. But Windows XP and Windows 7 are both good choices. Andrea Borman.
     
  16. nmsuk

    nmsuk Windows Forum Admin
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    I'm sorry but windows XP doesn't have more theme support than windows 7. Please stop posting untruths about 7. Everything Windows xp can do 7 can do better and is more secure to boot.
     
  17. OldTimer

    OldTimer Banned

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    Untruths abound!

    As far as Firefox 3.6.?? is concerned, version 20 was just released last week or so.
    I've never understood this crap about "Support" for some piece of software, like XP. If it runs OK today, it will run OK, a week, a month or even years from now. I still have computers that run '98 and ME and they run it just fine. Support? That's nothing more than a sick sales gimmick, to get people to spend their money for the latest and greatest (that's debatable) version of some software.
    I've never played that game in the past 30+ years and I'm not going to start now.

    This is supposed to be a HELP forum not the "Liars Club" so stop telling people that if they don't buy the very latest of everything that they will suffer greatly. That's just plain BS!

    :cool:
     
  18. Andrea Borman

    Andrea Borman Honorable Member

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    Well,when I said that Windows XP had more theme support. What I was trying to say was that Windows XP Home Edition that is on my Netbooks,lets you change the wallpaper. But on Windows 7 Netbooks,they only have Windows 7 Starter that does not have any features to change the wallpaper.Unless you upgrade to Home Premium and above. Or if you want to keep Windows 7 Starter,you have to install third party software like Oceanis or Personalization Panel to change the wallpaper. And on Windows XP you can change the background pages of control panel from blue to olive green or silver or just classic view. But on Windows 7,although you make change control panel to icon view, or list view,you cannot change the page color from default white.

    But the fact that you only get Windows 7 Starter on a Netbook is the fault of the makers,the people who make the Netbooks,not Windows 7. Although you can upgrade if you want to. But because Windows XP Netbooks are sold with Home Edition,you have the full features. Including change the wallpaper, or add your own,so you don't have to install third party software to do it. And Windows XP and Windows Vista has the classic start menu included. But Windows 7 does not have,unless you install Classic Shell. So there is a difference.

    I read on the web that there is a Windows XP Starter and Windows Vista Starter but that not sold in England or the USA on Netbooks. So we don't have to worry about that. Andrea Borman.
     
  19. nmsuk

    nmsuk Windows Forum Admin
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    I wasn't actually saying anyone should buy the latest and greatest. May have read that way but that wasn't my intention. I was merely commenting on andrea's post about wallpapers and how it can do whatever xp can but is securer to boot. Whether anyone buy's it or not I could careless about. :)


    I'm sorry but that's also untrue as my Asus EEEPC Netbook came with Windows 7 Home Premium.
     
    #79 nmsuk, Aug 29, 2011
    Last edited: Aug 29, 2011
  20. Andrea Borman

    Andrea Borman Honorable Member

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    But my Netbooks are all 1GB Netbooks-HP Mini 210 and they all come with Windows 7 Starter. But I upgraded 2 of my Netbooks to Windows 7 Professional. So you must have a 2GB Netbook. I have seen those in the shops and the 2GB ones do have Windows 7 Home Premium. But not the 1GB Netbooks.

    My Windows XP Netbooks are Acer Aspire One 1GB and MSI Wind 1GB and came with Windows XP Home Edition Service Pack 3. Which I still have.
    But they have since made a Windows 7 version of Acer Aspire One 1GB Netbook,but that only has Windows 7 Starter. And the Windows 7 version of MSI Wind 1GB Netbook,also only has Windows 7 Starter. Andrea Borman.
     

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