USB 3

Discussion in 'Windows 7 Hardware' started by seekermeister, Apr 17, 2013.

  1. seekermeister

    seekermeister Honorable Member

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    It took about 6 tries to boot to Windows a little while ago. First try - couldn't get the login field to open for a password. second try - got the password entered, but after a prolong period, it popped an error simply saying access denied. third try - booted into safe mode okay. fourth and fifth tries got no cursor response from the mouse, and couldn't login from the keyboard. Sixth time, reached desktop, but still no mouse.

    I changed the battery and swapped it around between the 2 front USB 3 connectors...no joy. The same happened when I connected using the back 2 USB 3 connectors. Finally got it to work using the USB 2 connectors on the motherboard.

    Don't really know if the boot problem was due to the mouse problem or if it was just a coincidence. Checked the Device Manager and it says that both of my 2 USB 3 host controllers and both USB 3 root hubs are okay and have no conflicts.

    Anyone with any idea of how this kind of problem comes about and how to fix it?
     
  2. Digerati

    Digerati Fantastic Member
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    How new is the motherboard? Since it has USB 3.0, it must be fairly new and perhaps, still under warranty so keep that in mind for now.

    It sounds like the 3.0 controller is having problems but I would try a different keyboard and mouse too.
     
  3. Joe S

    Joe S Excellent Member

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    I've noticed at the WD forums that USB 3 seems to have more problems than USB 2. There appear to be driver conflicts. Try deleting the USB 3.0 drivers and reinstalling. I think Logitec has been mentioned as one of the trouble makers.
    Joe
     
  4. seekermeister

    seekermeister Honorable Member

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    Driver conflict...sounds logical, but as I said, the Device Manager said that those devices were okay and with no conflicts, however, it is certainly worth a try. That would tie in the the booting problems.

    I'm trying now to remember where the driver originally came from. Maybe from the motherboard's CD, but they are NEC host controllers and root hubs.
     
  5. seekermeister

    seekermeister Honorable Member

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    I think that you may have hit the nail on the head, because after reinstalling the driver, the mouse is now working on the USB 3 port okay. However, on reboot it is hanging on the shutdown screen, and the boot time is slow.

    Just before this problem occurred I used the "defrag -b" command suggested in one of the tutorials here, and it did seem to speed it up as it should be. I'm now guessing that the USB 3 driver might be the cause for the slow booting, and even the shutdown hang, since that wasn't happening before.

    The primary reason that I'm using the USB 3.0 port for the mouse is just a matter of convenience, since two of the ports are on the front of the case. I don't think that the faster speed has any effect on the mouse operation, so maybe I should leave it in the USB 2.0 port instead.
     
  6. Digerati

    Digerati Fantastic Member
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    Defrag -b? If you open a command prompt and enter, defrag /?, you will see the list of switches (options) for the defrag command. Note there is no "b" option. Where did you see that?
     
  7. Digerati

    Digerati Fantastic Member
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    Okay, now I remember. Thanks for that.

    That switch is a carry-over from XP days as the /b (or -b) switch optimizes boots. But it is not needed in Windows 7/8 because they use prefetch and superfetch to keep it optimized. Running the /b switch may change some boot settings, but they are dynamic anyway so they will change again, depending on how you use your computer - assuming you have not disabled those features. No harm, but no good either.
     
  8. seekermeister

    seekermeister Honorable Member

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    Prefetch and superfetch? I thought that those services only dealt with what data was contained in memory. Wouldn't the location of the boot data in this regard have to do with where it is located on the hard drive? Even in XP, I would think that when the boot data is sent to memory that it would have been dynamic also. I have always thought of a defrag function to be one that just dealt with hard drive data.
     
    #9 seekermeister, Apr 19, 2013
    Last edited: Apr 19, 2013
  9. Digerati

    Digerati Fantastic Member
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    No. Not contained in memory, but what is stuffed into memory when you boot. The purpose of Prefetch and SuperFetch (which work with the Windows defrag program) is to arrange the program loaders of the programs you use most, so that they load faster at boot, and/or when you call them up.

    If you call up Word every day, prefetch and superfetch, working with the defrag program, will arrange files on your disk to load Word faster - even pre-loading into RAM to make loading even faster.

    See SuperFetch: How it Works & Myths
     
  10. seekermeister

    seekermeister Honorable Member

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    And if one doesn't use the Windows Defrag program? I use O&O.
     
  11. Digerati

    Digerati Fantastic Member
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    It is not a manual operation. And O&O does not remove the native defrag.
     
  12. seekermeister

    seekermeister Honorable Member

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    I understand that it is not a manual operation, but I'm not certain about what you mean by not removing the native defrag? I have O&O set to replace Windows Defragmenter in the Device Manager. In fact, though it might not be a good idea, I have the Windows Defragmenter service disabled, because it seemed extraneous and unnecessary service. Since O&O obviously reorganizes data, both in sequence and into zones, I can't see what the native defrag that you mention has to do with it. The only files that are locked are certain system files, like System Volume Information or restore files, and even those can be moved and defragged when an boot time defrag is set.
     
    #13 seekermeister, Apr 19, 2013
    Last edited: Apr 19, 2013
  13. Mitchell_A

    Mitchell_A Excellent Member

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    Automatic boot optimization doesn't actually occur in the form of defragmentation in some PC's, often with OEM installations.
     
  14. seekermeister

    seekermeister Honorable Member

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    I tried using the defrag c: -b command a bit earlier, and while it did recognize the command and run an analysis, it said that it couldn't do it, because boot optimization was disabled in the registry. I Googled a webpage on this:

    http://www.theeldergeek.com/automatic_boot_disk_optimization_[defrag].htm

    As you can see, it requires an edit be done to change the N to Y to enable it. After rebooting that edit automatically returned to an N, and since I'm running the Pro version of W7, and the N appears to be the default registry setting, I don't think that the defrag c: -b is of any value, because it can and must be performed by a registry edit in any case.
     
  15. seekermeister

    seekermeister Honorable Member

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    Going back to the issue that I started this thread for, when I rebooted to test the boot optomization just mentioned, I had a lot of trouble booting back to desktop, just as before dealing with the USB 3 issue. This leads me to believe that my booting issue is not due to the USB3, because disabling the USB controllers in the Device Manager did not solve the problem.

    On the next boot, I entered my password for login, but when pressing the enter, nothing happened. I tried it again with the same effect, so I booted into safe mode without any problem. I disabled all of the items on the startup tab in msconfig, and tried again. That time it accepted my password, but never got past a black screen. Another reboot and I finally got to desktop, but it took several minutes for my browser to open.

    Obviously the issue remains, and all that I can think of is to disable a couple of services in msconfig, like the acronis scheduler, and firewall. Before doing any more experimenting, I wanted to post this, so that if anyone has any ideas on the subject, that I would be able to read them, since I don't know how easy it would be to reach desktop again.

    Oh! One thing more, back on that first boot attempt, the BIOS couldn't detect my C: or H: drives. After doing some fiddling with the data cables, and leaving H: disconnected, C: returned to detected in the BIOS.
     
  16. Digerati

    Digerati Fantastic Member
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    IMO, your O&O defragger is extraneous and unnecessary AND it consumes disk space unnecessarily. Why? Because Windows has a fully capable defragger built in. We don't need anything else.

    Understand the claims 3rd party defraggers make are simply marketing fluff. So what if a 3rd party defragger is more efficient? The second (and I mean "second" literally) you start to use your computer again, Windows fragmentation starts again. So any advantage by a 3rd party defragger is quickly lost as the playing field levels.

    Also, another problem with real-time or scheduled defragging (including Windows own) is it is counterproductive to defrag with 1000s of tiny Temporary Internet Files on your drive. Therefore, you should ALWAYS clean out the clutter BEFORE defragging but real-time and scheduled defraggers don't. So I have disabled scheduled defragging on my systems for that reason.

    It is important to note that IF you need regular defragging, that generally means you do not have a enough free disk space and you should consider buying more, or freeing up space.
    I am saying Windows defragger is still on your computer even if you use a 3rd party defragger.

    When multiple drives suddenly disappear, I replace the CMOS battery - they are inexpensive so little is lost if not the problem
     
  17. seekermeister

    seekermeister Honorable Member

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    That shouldn't be a problem, I have a bunch of extras...assuming that they are still good (I wonder what the shelf life of that kind of battery is?).

    Actually, I was beginning to think that the problem is the motherboard itself, because of so many different kinds of problems popping up that seem to point in different directions. Drives disappearing, apparent driver conflict, general slowness of the system to the point that make of couple of my apps marginal, etc. When I connect the dots, to me the picture drawn looks like the culprit is the motherboard. I hope a new battery will solve the problem, but I'm not going to hold my breath, because when I have had battery problems in the past, it never manifested itself in this fashion.
     
    #18 seekermeister, Apr 20, 2013
    Last edited: Apr 20, 2013
  18. seekermeister

    seekermeister Honorable Member

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    While pondering the idea of getting another motherboard, I came across a thread that said that the Asus M489GTD was discontinued due to a defect in the SATA controllers.

    ASUSTeK Computer Inc.-Forum- M4A89GTD PRO/USB3 discontinued due to factory defect?

    Of course my current motherboard is an ASRock 890FX Deluxe 4 instead, but I think that both motherboards are pretty close together. If true, that might account for the problems that I've been having.
     
  19. Digerati

    Digerati Fantastic Member
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    Well if the battery does not help (they have a very long shelf life - if never used and kept isolated from anything conductive), I would swap in a known good power supply before doing anything else. Multiple problems pointing in all directions is a symptom of a failing, or out-of-tolerance PSU.
     

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