Why do people hate the new start screen?

Discussion in 'Windows 8 Help and Support' started by Mitchell_A, Apr 13, 2013.

?

Do you hate the start screen?

  1. Yes, it's horrible

    8 vote(s)
    28.6%
  2. Yes, but I will adapt

    4 vote(s)
    14.3%
  3. Neutral

    5 vote(s)
    17.9%
  4. No, I love it

    11 vote(s)
    39.3%
  1. Mitchell_A

    Mitchell_A Excellent Member

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    As the title suggests, I'm wondering why you hate the start screen in Windows 8 so much, or why you think others do.
    Besides looking completely different, there are nothing but improvements on the back end in terms of search, live tiles and appearance. I honestly see no legitimate reason for anyone to "hate it. My only theory is the idea that people hate change. For anyone who presents a legitimate reason (which I have yet to see anywhere), maybe we can help you work around the issue or tell you how something works versus the traditional start menu, as the learning curve can understandably cause "hatred". Sound off in the replies and cast your vote above.
     
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  2. Joe S

    Joe S Excellent Member

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    I hate it and can adapt to it and customize it but you shouldn't have to relearn how to use the PC. I don't have smartphones or tablets so nothing is intuitive about it for me. I also like watching the desktop load to see if anything unusual zips by or changes. When I installed the first beta of Windows 8 I had to do a web search to find the power button. Then I had to figure out the hidden login screen. About the only thing MS hasn't done with the start screen to annoy desktop users even more is add a rasberry startup sound that couldn't be disabled.
    Joe
     
  3. Trouble

    Trouble Noob Whisperer

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    Had to vote and had to reply, as I do love it..... BUT:
    Mind you that was not at all my initial reaction as I was a very loud and vocal opponent through out the previews (developers, release, and consumer), but when I realized that banging my head against a wall the size of Microsoft was not going to get me anywhere and I actually devoted a bit of time and attention and gave it a sincere and serious opportunity to win me over I have to admit that I cannot now imagine ever going back to Windows 7 nor can I now imagine ever wanting or needing a start button again.
    Our industry, while certainly driven by profit, is supported and bolstered by innovation and change (like it or not) and I don't think any of us would like to still be bumping around on wheels made of semi-circular stone, even if that were still an option.
    Technology is like a swimming shark.... keep moving or die. And the facts on the ground are, everyone is swimming towards small, handheld, mobile devices.
    I hear comments like Microsoft has shot themselves in the foot and so on and so forth. I don't believe that to be true and all. My main concern is that they were perhaps a little too late to hop aboard the speeding train and if you'll permit another metaphor.... perhaps brought a knife to a gun fight, as there offerings may be too little, too late in both features and price point to attract proper adoption of their products. And if that leaves them with only, a bunch of unhappy desktop users, still moaning about their start button, then that's what really doesn't bode well for the future
     
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  4. Adamsappleone

    Adamsappleone U.S.Navy D.A.V.

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    Have to agree with Joe and Trouble, however, can't actually say I ever hated it, it was a mere dislike.
    Once, getting used to it, then discovering ways around it, customizing it, etc;, it turned out to be fun.
    And, once again, you are in fact running a special edition of Windows 7.

    @ Joe, the raspberry startup sound, it's coming, Windows Blue. [​IMG]

    Don
     
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  5. ChristineBCW

    ChristineBCW New Member

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    Not hate, but great suspicions. We know Ballmer wants to run all programs thru the WinStore so he can profit from everything being licensed and distributed, then tracked via the Start Screen. What's not to love about THAT?!! He'll be able to enforce subscriptions and greater payments to him with all the fanboi praise for the Start Screen. "Oh, but the programs are now all signed and more secure!" Right. He's been saying that about every version of Windows and Internet Explorer, too.

    As for SEARCH, it sucks. I want to find all the ST4*.* files on Drive I. Oops - can't do that! Must go thru all drives, all the time!

    Or maybe do a SEARCH for "keystroke combo's" so we can see the hundreds of heralded keystroke combos that are available. Oops - can't get any search results for that phrase either!! Oh well - who needs keystroke combos on a touch-screen anyway?!!

    Yeah. What's not to love about endless scrolling to the use the 8 programs I constantly use for productive work. Oh well... those used to be running concurrently but now, no, one App at a time. One day, the concept of multi-tasking will occur and fanbois will claim it's "all new, all revolutionary!!" Uh huh.
     
  6. CNCOldster

    CNCOldster New Member

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    The majority of my day to day work is stored in a variety of file types which are in folders according to product. When I need to work on a specific product, I use the shortcut on my desktop that takes me to the main products folder. Because that folder is set to open in the same place and size (oops! lost that in Win7), I can quickly navigate to a specific product folder. Now I can double click each of the (separate but related) files to open them all on my multiple monitor setup. I can switch between apps with a single click on an exposed area of a window and make changes while still viewing the information in a related file. When I'm done with an app, I can close it with a single click on the close button. when all the files are closed, I can quickly navigate back a step or two and find the folder for the next product and do it all again.

    I'm not regurgitating popular sentiment here. I have desktop workstations at home (Win7) and at work (Win7). I have a smart phone and an iPad. Recently, I purchased a new laptop(Win8) from Dell which is truly a remarkable piece of hardware. I did so because I wanted to jump on the Windows 8 wagon and be ahead of the curve. Initially, I found Windows H8 useless but I have a subscription to an online training site so I went and found a tutorial for Win8 and watched the entire thing. With each video in the series, I felt my heart sink lower and lower as it became clearer that I had just blown $1800 on a toy.

    Can anyone explain to me how charms and tiles help me? I surely don't see it. And please stop with the "there are lots of utilities available to make it work the way you want" Doesn't anyone see how ludicrous that is? Would anyone buy a Porsche and then go out and buy a kit to convert it to a pickup truck because you need a vehicle to haul garbage to the landfill?

    My first response to Win8 was disappointment. After going online to see what Microsoft reps had to say, it has changed to something more akin to a broken heart. Microsoft has abandoned me.
     
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  7. MikeHawthorne

    MikeHawthorne Essential Member
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    My biggest gripe about Windows 8 is that it isn't Windows.

    There's a reason that Windows is called Windows, it's because it opens things in..... "Windows"!!!

    Unmodified Windows 8 doesn't do that.

    I like to use multiple windows I like snap, I run several windows at a time a lot.

    So I hope Windows Blue will make Windows back into Windows again.

    Mike
     
  8. Mike

    Mike Windows Forum Admin
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    I actually find this post to be quite shocking, considering the types of conversations we had privately regarding Windows 8. I like it, but the limitations on desktop mode are quirky. Once you use ModernMix, it is hard to get used to the Start Screen running in full screen in a non-touch screen environment. I hope that additional support is added for desktop-only users with Windows 8.1.
     
  9. davehc

    davehc Microsoft MVP
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    Perhaps a small confusion , between the thread title and the actual use, in FULL screen, of the "Apps"
    Modern mix has the function to put Apps in a partial window, on the desktop. This function remains automatic, anyway, if you do not use the apps. The auto full screen function of the apps is the singular item I cannot live with. Otherwise I am quite happy using the customised "Metro" as my only start menu.
    So far (?) I have been able to use a third party legacy program, on the desktop, and have found no urgent need to use the (90%) garbage in the Store. This includes, oddly, most Microsoft programs.
     
  10. MikeHawthorne

    MikeHawthorne Essential Member
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    Hi again.

    I think that part of the problems is that the apps aren't that useful.

    I don't use any of them, the mail app won't open my pop.3 email.

    I already have then normal version of Microsoft Office.

    Internet Explorer can't open some of my web pages, i.e. my comcast home page.

    The software that I run are Adobe Products, Video and Animation Software, Games like The Secret World, and Skyrim.

    I like Windows Media Player much better then the video app.
    The apps are too simplistic.

    So what's the point of trying to force me to run everything through an interface that won't show multiple windows, let me see the taskbar when I'm working in an app, or let me call someone on Skype or look something up without closing the window and switching to something else.

    I never want to have a touch screen PC, I use a mouse to draw, and sometimes a tablet.
    I've been doing it for 20 years, I don't want to have to draw on my screen with my finger.

    I have a 27" screen, I don't want to move my hand around that much and I don't need to have giant icons to find what I want.

    The whole idea that they didn't consider the people who do real work on their PCs everyday is crazy.

    Portables are going to be more and more popular that's obvious, I have an iPad, a Laptop, and an iPhone myself in addition to my PC.

    But I'm never going to sit and do a 24 page catalog in Adobe Indesign or play MMOs on my iPad, or Windows Surface.

    To do that I need a PC with thousands of gigs storage, a big screen, and immense processing power, I need a real keyboard both for games and for typing copy.

    I would never write this on my iPad, it would drive me up the wall.

    Try creating animated 3D figures on a Pad, you couldn't store the data for one figure or video clip, not to mention it getting too hot to hold on to.

    There has to be an operating system for people who use their computer for more than browsing, word processing and e-mail.

    I've used Windows since version 3.1 and it's gotten better and better, with some ups and downs along the way, but Windows 8 doesn't make anything that I can think of easier to do then it was in Windows 7, or add anything new that's useful.

    Windows 7 added some great stuff like Snap, for me Windows 8 didn't add anything that I can use.

    If I had it to do over I would have stayed with Windows 7 pro when I got my new computer and waited to see what came next.

    I've actually had more problems with the final version of Windows 8 then I did the beta version I ran for a year.

    On the plus side Windows 8 seems very stable with a few quirks, like not accessing pop.3 email, and it is faster than Windows 7.

    So give me the plusses without the crazy interface.

    I shouldn't have to use 3rd party software to make it work.

    Mike
     
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  11. Laura

    Laura New Member

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    I actually thought 8 was pretty cool when I first got it on my new laptop. That was about three months ago. Now the only thing I like about it is the live tile for weather. I have learned that I need to pin all the programs I use onto the dt taskbar, but I do have an app I got from the store, a programming tutorial, that I need to view and work along with in another program. It's so irritating to have to go between the program on my dt to the app on the start screen every minute or so to follow the tutorial instructions. What turns me into a flaming ball of fury is when I'm trying to discover exactly what singular character is preventing my script from working during the tutorial. I've just started taking screenshots of the app and opening them on the web for that - I can minimize the WINDOWS (cough cough anyone remember windows cough cough) and compare them side by side. And please don't tell me to install something so I can view app windows on my dt, I shouldn't have to. I also hate that when I'm in FileMaker and I save a file to PDF, I'm kidnapped and taken to an app and I have to go back to the dt again to get back on FM. And I'm completely dumbfounded by the fact that there is no search function in the app store. Really??? There was a reason why people bought PCs instead of Macs. Now the choice is pseudo-Macs and Macs. Time to research other OS's.
     
  12. davehc

    davehc Microsoft MVP
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    You can use "ModernMix" which will give you the option to open all the Apps on the desktop, in partial or full screen, but "And please don't tell me to install something so I can view app windows on my dt, I shouldn't have to.".Can't help with that. Since Windows 95, I have been installing third party apps, as , in certain cases, I did not feel the basic ones offered as part of the OS, were adequate. Such thing as Wordpad or Paint, for example. It did not trouble me to install the one mentioned, which requires a ridiculously low payment, or to install one of numerous start menu programs, of my choice.
    I also hate that when I'm in FileMaker and I save a file to PDF, I'm kidnapped and taken to an app". You can install a PDF reader of your choice, (Adobe?), and point to it as the default. This, also, would be something most have practised for some years. The only change in Windows 8 is that they have offered a choice of another free Pdf reader.

    "And I'm completely dumbfounded by the fact that there is no search function in the app store"

    There is in fact. Just type what your seek (Chess, for example) the search function will then pop up, with all the possible results for your search.
     
    #12 davehc, Jun 9, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 9, 2013
  13. Drew

    Drew Banned

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    I have not read each piece of this thread fully but, I will, still, add my thoughts/comments, anyway. I marked "Neutral" and I will explain why...

    1st my thoughts on why other people hate it or think they should:
    1. Because (some) people can't/don't cope w/ change very well.
    2. Because (some) people don't really 'understand' the Windows 8 new approach to a start menu.
    3. Because (some) people think it is the 'hip' thing to do to jump on an "I hate what Microsoft has done" bandwagon whether there is actually a good, valid, legitimate reason for this attitude or not.

    Now from my own point of view:
    Using the Windows 8 Start screen is 100% optional. What Tiles are there or not is 100% optional. The same as using the All Apps screen (WinQ) is 100% optional. It is quite cool having 'live', Active Tiles and how the Tiles can be sized and organized. The graphical display is kind of ecstatically pleasing and can be felt to be more 'exciting' than a mere list of things.

    Yes, the new Start screen/menu can be and is very appealing to many people. As we can see from the voting, actually that is the case for more people than the negative hype has suggested.


    For myself, I really like the search ability on the Start screen. W/out choosing to search Settings, Applications or Files, one can just begin typing what one seeks anywhere on Start & voila.

    Other than that although, I do have some Tiles (there) I really do not use Start nor WinQ. I do use a couple of APPs, mostly Weather, Calendar and a few others if & when I want them. Sometimes full screen whilst I'm using whatever but, also, Snap & I do use the Switched Bar a lot. The main thing (for me) is I spend 100% of my time on Desktop and in the name of efficiency, I don't care to need to change screens for things. Ergo, I use a window on my Taskbar w/ an alphabetical list of all applications, the equivalent of WinQ. From this, when opened from the Taskbar I can access anything & everything w/out worrying about changing screens (to Start or All APPs) nor what Tiles Start has or how they are arranged. BUT, this in no way & to no extent reflects any 'hatred'. What is offered in Windows 8 is just fine, IMO (& what is coming in 8.1 may be even finer). The way I operate is just a reflection of the fact that Windows can be customised & personalised easily & extensively and in Windows there are often more than one approach possible to how one functions or chooses to accomplish things. And this concept is especially & wonderfully true w/ Windows 8.


    So there is no reason to "hate" Start. It is certainly somewhat different from what we knew in past Windows Operating systems but, can be very cool to use... just a matter of 'learning' it, what it offers, what its capabilities are and becoming familiar w/ its potential.


    As I said, it can be use, in whole or in part or not at all. And it can be liked but, does not deserve to be 'hated'.


    Cheers,
    Drew
    Win8Logo (2013_02_06 10_30_24 UTC).
     
  14. MikeHawthorne

    MikeHawthorne Essential Member
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    Hi

    Well the new start screen, in Windows Blue or 8.1 will be a little different than the one in the present one.

    While I may not use it for every program I run, it looks like something that I can use more easily.

    It appears in the video below that you will have the option to have several screens, most importantly, one named "Most Used" that will let you do pretty much what I do with Rocketdock.

    In effect to have my commonly used programs games and utilities arranged in groups all in one place without all the other drivel that goes along with them.

    I'm not clear from the video, as to whether, you can decide what the icons on the "Most Used" screen are, but I'm hoping that I can decide for myself what goes here, and it doesn't just decide based on how many times you click on them, or something like that.

    What I need is a display of the icons I use, arranged by category in columns alphabetically much the way I use Rocket Dock.

    If I could have a screen that had My Adobe software, Windows Utilities, Games and my video editing and creation software on it then I would be all set.

    I'd also like the abillity to have it load to the most used page when I click the button to go to the Start Menu, and not have to tell it every time that, that's where I want to go.

    I'm keeping my fingers crossed.

    It may be that everything I want to access from the desktop will fit on the taskbar, (my browser, my mail app, Word, a link to File Manager, Snipping Tool, Skype, Agent Ransack, and Winamp) and I won't need additional space to keep my desktop neat and clean at all.

    This Windows 8.1 Demo Actually Uses Mouse, Start Button

    It's funny how just having the background stay consistent from the desktop to the start screen makes it look more like one OS and not so much like you are switching from one operating system to another.

    Mike
     
    #14 MikeHawthorne, Jun 11, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 14, 2013
  15. Trouble

    Trouble Noob Whisperer

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    Unfortunately I've been hearing some interesting news about just that.
    It seems that unless the images are formatted properly (which may be more in your wheelhouse Mike than in mine) the look is not exactly what you would expect especially if you have a full start screen which might necessitate scrolling right and left.
    Something to keep an eye on I guess.
     
  16. MikeHawthorne

    MikeHawthorne Essential Member
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    Why did someone repost my message with some links in Vietnamese (Porn?) inserted in it?
     
    #16 MikeHawthorne, Jun 14, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 14, 2013
  17. nmsuk

    nmsuk Windows Forum Admin
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    I've sorted it out, posts deleted and the user banned. Mike if this happens to you again. Could you please use the report post button.
     
    #17 nmsuk, Jun 14, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 14, 2013
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  18. lindamartin123

    lindamartin123 New Member

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    Because it is not and not like the older versions. It's not about looking good or bad. People, a study says, will feel easy to use the routine things in a same way. There are infact people who afraid of the new things in their daily life. So it's not that they don't like it or hate it yet, they maybe think as such. But only after some more time would we know if they really hate it or start liking it.
     
  19. MikeHawthorne

    MikeHawthorne Essential Member
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    Hi

    I still think it's because it doesn't make things easier to do, in many cases it adds steps or works less well, like not supporting POP3 email with the mail app, or showing multiple application windows at the same time.

    The Start Screen could use improvement, it's going to get some with 8.1 but they should have talked to someone who actually uses a computer.

    I don't know how anyone who actually works on a computer could have come up with the way it works now.

    I need a start screen that shows the applications that I need to run every day, organised in a easy to access format.

    I need to have a taskbar so I can open Skype, or Word, or my browser while I'm working in another program.

    I need to have windows side by side and work back and forth.

    I need to be able to drag things from window to window.

    All of these things are either harder, or impossible to do from the Metro screen, so why have it?

    I don't have a touch screen, I have a mouse and a keyboard and so do hundreds of millions of other people.

    To ignore everyone working on a PC today for the handheld market doesn't make sense.

    The handheld market is growing but they are very limited in what they can do, I have an iPad, it's fun for what it does, it shoots video, takes pictures, connects to the web, etc.

    But you can't do anything serious with it, you can't even play real games.
    Much less edit video or create 3D graphics, even if it had the power to do stuff like that, it would still be really hard to do on a touch screen.

    So we still need a version of Windows that works on a big, powerful, bulky desktop with a big screen, that lets you do real stuff.

    At least there are people out there who make it usable, even if Microsoft doesn't.

    Thanks for Classic Shell and Modern Mix and their equivalents.

    Mike
     
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  20. Laura

    Laura New Member

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    I did figure out that you can just start typing in the app store to search apps, but I do appreciate you posting that. But I'm not sure why that is really better than just having a search box. How difficult is it to either tab into or left click in a search box?

    They have taken so many things that were already simple and changed them for what doesn't seem better, just different (or worse). What was the point? The only point was to get Windows users out of the "Microsoft = desktop and laptop only, Apple = mobile devices" mindset. Just because Apple has the corner on the market for mobile devices doesn't mean Microsoft had to go and screw up our desktops and laptops.

    Here's just one example of a work project I did on my desktop (which has W7, my laptop has W8): while creating a PowerPoint presentation, I used the internet for research and to find images; I used photo editing software; I used Word and PDF documents for reference; I had to pull up documents and images that already existed in my files; I used Notepad just to jot down some color codes from logos; I used the calculator to convert RGB to HEX color codes. And I did all of this as needed, going back and forth between all the WINDOWS frequently. How do you do that on Windows 8, other than pinning everything to the taskbar on the desktop, essentially turning it back into W7?

    I have also installed Adobe PDF Reader. I disagree with you though when you say
    They don't give you a choice, they give you their new app (and not for your convenience, again, their goal is to sell more mobile devices). Yes, you have the choice to use something else, but you have to figure that out for yourself, so it's really not THEM GIVING you a choice, it's YOU FINDING alternatives.

    The only thing I've found useful on Windows 8 is the live Weather Channel app on the start screen. Doesn't quite even out with the cons.
     

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