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Discussion in 'Windows 8 Help and Support' started by Mike, Mar 23, 2012.
My dad tries Windows 8 for the first time - YouTube
This will be Microsofts biggest ever flop, far bigger than Vista. - Windows 8 Forums
I like Vista and still use it, it is a nice improvement over XP and sort of a pre-beta Windows 7, IMO. Windows 7 slower than XP, , , sounds like something went awry, I'm not a computer expert, IT Professional or anything like that, just average self taught, I have enjoyed the many changes in Windows over the years, never had any major issues with any version starting back with 98SE. "A computer is only as infallible as it's user", keep this in mind and don't blame the OS. Don
Well put Adam. Agree. Same here. Drew
And Vista is far too superior to WinME to be another WinME? This is what is known as "FLAWED LOGIC"! Microsoft is notorious for enforcing trends; An example is the lack of British spell-check in Windows live mail. We are forced to use the American spell check and MS says that should we want British spelling then there is a way to merge it with the American dictionary?????? We as end users want the OPTIONS to be available to us. MS does not want us to have options and has gone the way of Big brother. If Win7 had retained the option of Classic Menus then I for one would be a very happy end user. Not only have they removed most option from Win8 but the ones remaining have been hidden so well that "Frustration" is too mild a word to use to describe how I felt when I tried out the Metro UI. I will not even consider Win 8 simply because I don't want to turn my PC into a smart phone. Perhaps MS will heed our complaints and change win8, who knows; Miracles have been known to happen albeit extremely rarely! Cheers
Continuing to use XP, @ least, much longer, is being one's own enemy. If, I have to articulate all the many reasons why, I'm not sure there's enough time or ink. Which is not to say anything bad toward it... it is/was good but, it's time has passed. I liked it, too, but... I liked my grandmother who was a fine person, too. Not very relevant, now. Now, I'll try (not sure why) to address 'tanzanos', again. Your analogy to suggest "flawed logic" is flawed. If, you want to try to put ME (yuck) in the same basket as Vista, that's a bit unfair but, be that as it may... the point was, ppl bad mouth Vista & if, one wants to say Vista had issues & bash it, that Windows8 is so much better than Vista, that to say, as was said in the earlier post, Win8 is or will be another Vista is not a valid statement. Win8 is very much superior to Vista on many levels & for many reasons. To not realise or see this shows a large lack of understanding or knowledge of Windows8. To rant against the "metro UI" is downright silly. To write off, carte blanche, Windows8 over that screen is even sillier. In the 'big picture', relative to the rest of the OS, it's about as important as the 1st, outer layer of an onion's skin. I'm quite sure I've said this before, already but, still, I'll repeat it... There only time I see it is @ start-up as I pass through it on the way to Desktop. Don't use it, don't need it, don't need to care about it or consider it a big, upsetting, bother. Live on & work from the good ole Desktop. The Start screen is not a big deal... UI = User Interface but, I doesn't even get used! Occasionally, I may use it to Search for something, though even that is not necessary...can do just as well Searching from Desktop. Or might go there to remove some tile for something that there is no need to have its tile there. Why get hung up over something that needn't be used? Makes no sense & bashing an extremely good OS over that 1 initial unneeded screen, makes no sense. There is a hell of a lot of good under the onions 1st meaningless, don't-need-to-use-it screen. To condemn & ignore Windows8 because of its Start screen is grossly unfair & narrow-minded & not looking below or beyond the first layer of the onion or discover how to work w/out that screen... it IS possible, there IS the choice. I & others do it all day, everyday. & not cus we let it upset us but, cus can't justify bothering w/ it. As for the language issue, as a Canadian, I fully agree. Windows8 can be in a huge number of languages. But, yes, when it comes to English, it does not, in terms of Spell Check use proper English but, rather American; and American spelling is not King's English. As a Canadian (w/ British background) I can, certainly, empathise. It is true, it does not offer the distinction between (proper) English & American (spellings). There is, oft times, too much of a knee-jerk impulse to bash MS & MS products arbitrarily as if it's done just cus it's the cool, hip thing to do. Admittedly, sometimes it applies quite validly, like towards ME & Win7 was an improvement over Vista. Everything is relative. But, when ppl stop getting their vision blocked or clouded by the silly Star screen, maybe they could learn that there is a damn good OS under it. One that is better than even & & certainly better than Vista. And once ppl stop treating the damn Start screen like it's the be all & end all Windows8 likely will not be "a flop", @ all. I'll have to help my clients w/ it so I'm glad I have not looked @ it w/ blinders on or a chip on my should or w/ prejudice or w/out looking below or beyond the surface. A good, open-minded attitude, plus using it non-stop since February has given me (& others) greater insight & awareness to its value & virtues than otherwise. Cheers, Drew
You fail to mention the total lack of "Intuition" that is inherent in Win8. Most people who faced Ribbon and Win8 were totally at a loss and not to mention frustrated. MS wants to impose the same OS in phones, tablets, and PCs; This simply cannot work no matter how "Powerful" the OS, simply because PC users use their computers differently and require a different concept to that of smart phones. Win8 hides everything and makes it a chore just to navigate. Win8 may be perfect for tablets and smart phones but to a professional who wants to use the computer as a tool rather than to post in Facebook; It is a nightmare! Win8 is what Consoles are compared to PCs when it comes to gaming. Win8 is simply HORRID!
It seems that you are the exception Perhaps if you checked the thread in "general discussions - This will be microsofts biggest ever flop, far bigger than-vista". There you will read the opinions of IT professionals and others. Cheers mate and have a good day
1st of all, I am an IT Pro. 2ndly you neglect to included all the praise Windows8 gets. Please don't project your feeling onto others. Let ppl have to right & freedom to judge something for themselves w/out trying to give them a negative bias beforehand. Many, many ppl, unlike you, actually like & see merit in Windows8. It is easy to find out how to use & navigate Win8... if, one bothers. It work very nicely on a regular (non-Touch) desktop or laptop. And for ppl who may be keen, open & interested to it, takes VERY little time to find one's way around it & personalise or customise it to one's liking. Have your opinion but, never mind trying to scare off others before they even look @ it. (Then) They may form their OWN view & feelings. Cheers, Drew
OK you do have a point but, Since Windows is basically a Monopoly; Something that should not have been allowed in the first place, then suffice it to say any company enjoying monopoly status and thus holding at "Ransom" its customers should cater to the needs of the ones who already own previous versions of their products and are basically being forced to change as support will cease in time. My friend, all I am asking for is to have the option of classic menus and classic UI. If you watch the advertisement for W8 you will notice that it is mainly aimed at the multimedia, tweeter, facebook user. I just found out that CLASSIC SHELL is now available for Win8 and this alone will be the criteria for me to make the step in the FAR future. Classic Shell was the reason I moved from XP to Win7. Why did MS get rid of this option? Cheers mate!
tanzanos Many of us have been using Classic Shell for 8, for quite sometime now. And, if that's what it takes for you to dip in to Windows 8, no offense but, it sounds like you've been judging a book by it's cover. Regards Don
Absolutely not. I simply could not work with win7 UI until I installed Classic Shell. I cannot use ribbon nor MACs simply because everything is hidden and is not intuitional. When win95 first came out I did not even have to go through a learning curve as everything was so intuitive and logical that navigating was very easy. When drop down menus were replaced with Ribbon and the new start menu of win7 lacked the classic start menu I was at a loss. Call me stupid (my first computer was the ZX80 and have owned a plethora of computers since then.) I have patents to my name and am a products designer by trade. Sorry but I simply cannot understand the hide and seek concept first introduced by Apple and then adopted by MS. No Classic shell means no going to new OSs. I pre ordered win7 and have been using it since its release. I tried many times to use its UI but gave up. So Classic menus it is or nothing. Have a great day everyone
I definitely understand and for the most part sympathize with your plight. If people, especially those of us who have been around since Windows 3, would be more honest, we would all likely agree that when a new OS announcement comes out, our first thought is, OK, let's see where they put everything this time. I love your "hide and seek" analogy. This OS is nothing more than a drive by Microsoft for cross platform acceptance and identity. Hey my Tablet (Slate) looks just like my desktop, Wow my phone looks just like my desktop. There is nothing actually great here for the average everyday user, it is not at all intuitive as any number of internet videos will prove as they show people setting at the lock screen wondering what to do next. There are a lot of us sitting around looking at this new OS, through our nerdy, tape adorned, rose colored glasses, saying things like this is cool or oh, that's nice, when actually many and I do mean many are going to find the OS more than a little frustrating. Is it faster? Yes a little bit. Does it have any cool features under the hood? Yes a couple. Does it bring anything of real benefit to the overall user experience? You decide (and it sounds like you have, as many have, and many more will). When Windows 95 first shipped, the departure from the old Program Manager interface to the new Start Button was so drastic that I believed that if you purchased a retail full version or a retail upgrade version of the CD (not sure about the 1.4 cassette media) I seem to recall a second CD something about "Getting Started" or "Windows Starts Here" or words to that effect. I suspect that they might do something similar in the way of a tutorial CD/DVD included in the packaging or a big tile on the Start Page for an integrated How To Video. Regards Randy
Your missing the point & simply balking @ change itself. Change (nothing to do w/ Win8 or Windows 29) is part of existence but, many humans balk @ it... not, actually the item that has changed. And (the point is) Windows8, on a regular desktop PC or laptop, works very nicely w/out adding anything retro, just so you know. I'll let others have the thread, now Cheers, Drew
I agree that we must change everything so let us start by getting rid of the RETRO round wheel and redesign the all new SQUARE wheel; Perfect for parking your car, has built in micro processed dampening mechanism, gyroscopic stabiliser, Y axis dampening, and comes in cool candy colours. Yup! Square wheels are light years ahead of the now defunct thousands of years old round wheel design. Wow talk about fashion victims! Have a very happy day!
Agreed Randy.. Microsoft does not have an os that covers all the hardware bases until now.. It's simply addressing the balance. If one doesn't like the os then one has the right to not buy or indeed use it.......
Should I remind you that Microsoft is by all definitions a MONOPOLY and as such does not allow us to have an equivalent choice? If MS was not a monopoly and there were 3 or more OS developers out there with OSs then it would have been a different story. Of course they would all have to have some form of standardisation but market forces would come into play and allow the consumer something which is noticeably lacking; Namely "CHOICE"!
I think we will just have to agree to disagree on this one...
tanzanos, Geeez been a long time since seeing you around here w/ clever sarcasm and cutting Windows 8 to shreds. We are all nuts to like it, don't you reckon? Nice to see you, again. Cheers, Drew
Particularly interesting was something from Neil Tucker in the form of question, regarding Windows 8 Uptake Slows for Third Straight Month. To which I responded: "I believe that this, the worldwide economic crisis, and the fact that Windows 7 was released in 2007 has been too much for business adoption. They are slow to update and hardware may be slow to advance to accommodate the software. In some cases, some hardware manufacturers like Samsung and Apple already have outstanding commitments to produce Android and iOS based devices. The tablet marketplace is a place Microsoft hasn't been able to reach extensively into, and because it has no real competition (that would debase it from its thrown) in the desktop market, you can see they are trying to move into multi-functional UI very quickly to catch up. No Start Menu is a major complaint from many. 15 years ago, Neil, people were laughing at the idea that a OS based on a Linux derivative kernel could actually compete with Microsoft in any area, much less miniature devices. The market is unpredictable, but Microsoft has $60B in cash assets to gamble on the PC user market to gain leverage on tablets and phones." To me, irregardless of the third-party options available to consumers, I think that this is generally what is going on, as most business analysts (I am not one) will just tell it straight that this is what is going on. At the end of the day, the Start Screen still serves little to no purpose to me, but that is because I do not have a Windows 8-based tablet or handheld. The point of my message to Neil was that, yes, in a sense, all of these factors play a part. An untimely release date, a PC business marketplace that generally doesn't want to touch the thing (quite literally) when a keyboard and mouse are still the standard as HIDs in business for productivity. Slowly but surely, this will change. My point was that Microsoft has the ability to gamble on the PC desktop market and take these types of risks - call them innovative or regressive - exactly because they face little to no competition in that area. The timing for Windows 8 was strategic as if the OS was a PC desktop failure, it might still succeed in the tablet marketplace and PC desktop users were still migrating to Windows 7. In fact, saturation for Windows 7 and Windows 8 over Windows XP is now in full force. People are either choosing one or the other, as I thought about before the release. The thought was get them on one or the other, but nothing else. In fact, the statistics from the article in question support this theory: Source: Gregg Keizer, CIO.com You cannot really consider an overpriced Apple desktop system or even Apple TV to be competitive in a recessive economy when nearly all of their products have some crazy 40% markup over similar retail PC components. Why is this? Because they have white chassis? Microsoft's only serious competitor is Google, and they know it. I digress with Apple, only because I find the infatuation with it to be insane and inane by people who are suckered into the same places where they buy $90 HDMI Monster Cables when they could just go on Monoprice.com and buy one for $5 USD. So you see my point... Google's tablet platform is something I legitimately use for consumption; Microsoft products are something I legitimately use for production. To me, Chromebook is regressive, because why would you want to use a touch screen OS with a mouse and keyboard. Similarly, Windows 8 touch screen functionality is regressive vice versa. But that is my opinion and I'm sticking to it.