Windows 8: Good or Bad?

kemical

Windows Forum Admin
Staff member
Premium Supporter
Microsoft MVP
#1
I read this article today and just wondered what others thought? Do you agree with the sentiments given in the article or no?

Personally I feel that this guy sat down and used Windows 8 for around a minute and a half. Anyone who has explored the new interface knows that it can easily be configured to get at what one needs to fairly rapidly.. Admittedly we've seen two betas, let's just see the final product before we are so quick to pass judgement.


BERKELEY, Calif. (MarketWatch) — I am writing this review on a computer that runs Windows Vista. It’s not that bad.

Generally speaking, I like Microsoft Corp. /quotes/zigman/20493/quotes/nls/msft MSFT +1.18% and what it has done. Over the years, I’ve even supported the idea that Microsoft’s Bob interface was mismarketed and actually was unique and interesting.

That said, Windows 8 looks to me to be an unmitigated disaster that could decidedly hurt the company and its future.


Reuters
The Windows 8 Consumer Preview presentation in February.
This opinion is based on using the new release candidate beta that is pretty much what will finally ship after some bug fixes.

It’s not that the product out-and-out stinks. It is refreshingly slick-looking and modern, albeit without any charm whatsoever.

The real problem is that it is both unusable and annoying. It makes your teeth itch as you keep asking, “Why are they doing this!?”

First of all, the system-software product is mostly divorced from all the thought and trends developed by Windows over the years, as if to say that they were wrong the whole time, so let’s try something altogether new.

No business will tolerate this software, let me assure you. As a productivity tool, it is unusable.

Most applications cannot even be scaled down and so take up the whole screen. To even get out of these “apps,” you have to ram the cursor down into the lower left corner and click. That puts you back onto the vapid “Metro” start screen, where you can begin another miserable adventure.

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Do you work on a huge 27-inch or bigger monitor? You know, so you have room to organize your programs and files? Well, imagine everything running full screen on that. It’s a joke.

There is an old-fashioned desktop you can visit, but whenever the OS gets the chance, it throws you back onto the Metro interface. For those of us who thought we could avoid Metro and live on the desktop screen, we are going to be sorely disappointed.

This is a problem for Microsoft investors. The potential for this OS to be an unrecoverable disaster for the company is at the highest possible level I’ve ever seen. It ranks up there with the potential for disaster that the Itanium chip presented for Intel Corp. /quotes/zigman/20392/quotes/nls/intc INTC +1.56% It’s that bad.

I have no idea why Microsoft would take such an enormous gamble on its cash cow like this. Incremental changes were a theme at Redmond, Wash.; this is a radical departure.

What is this departure based on? It’s based on the pipe dream that the unsuccessful user interface used by Windows Phone will turn into a success on the tablet — to such an extreme that people will also demand it on the desktop, so all the platforms can have the same look and feel.

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This is insanity, plain and simple. It’s even more nuts knowing that nobody is waiting in line to buy Windows Phone in the first place, and the tablet is untested in the market. So the company jumps ahead to the desktop?

I admit that I did not like the Metro interface from the minute I saw it. But the early developers’ beta of Windows 8 did show some promise of letting me hang out on the desktop and avoid Metro completely. This no longer looks to be the case.

Microsoft and Apple Inc. /quotes/zigman/68270/quotes/nls/aapl AAPL +1.04% have trained their users and penetrated the market (especially the enterprise market) to the limit. Now Microsoft wants to take all the habits and workflows and new skill sets we’ve developed and toss them into the bin for this? Who at Microsoft signed off on this? Do they even use computers?

The public and enterprise users are going to demand Windows 7 throughout 2013 and until Microsoft gives up on this soulless Metro interface and gets a new design team, fast.
Reference:

Microsoft reinvents the wheel with Windows 8 - John Dvorak's Second Opinion - MarketWatch
 


Trouble

Noob Whisperer
#2
I must say that solely based on his twice describing the OS as "unusable" I would have to say that overall I disagree with the article.
But.....
His points about business accepting this OS, especially since the Server version also employs Metro may be, on the money.
And his comments about the underlying reason for the move to Metro being to enhance and or facilitate cross platform (desktop, tablet, phone) use and acceptance is definitely spot on. And Microsoft using their global desktop install base to push their way into those two portable markets to bolster their market share there on the backs of desktop users, is well .... obvious and maybe a bit predatory.
Is the whole thing, as he describes,
an enormous gamble on its cash cow
and
an unmitigated disaster that could decidedly hurt the company and its future.
I suppose only time will tell.
 


#3
I agree with this article 150% every point! That's why after 8 days Windows 8 was gone on main system and is now gone off of the other. I will not try the release preview I have no interest and I will not buy it when it comes out. Our 5 machines will stay on Windows 7 until such time as MSFT comes to its senses. I love Windows 7, I can be very happy keeping it until the very last minute its supported. I'd be lying if I said I didn't hope Windows 8 is a bigger failure than Vista. Then maybe MSFT will get a clue and release a version for the rest of us who aren't using touch screen systems.

I read this article today and just wondered what others thought? Do you agree with the sentiments given in the article or no?

Personally I feel that this guy sat down and used Windows 8 for around a minute and a half. Anyone who has explored the new interface knows that it can easily be configured to get at what one needs to fairly rapidly.. Admittedly we've seen two betas, let's just see the final product before we are so quick to pass judgement.




Reference:

Microsoft reinvents the wheel with Windows 8 - John Dvorak's Second Opinion - MarketWatch
 


davehc

Essential Member
Premium Supporter
#4
His only point here, referring to the actual "usability" of the OS, is the automatic full screen when using Metro Apps. Advertising, from MMs and others, is that Metro Apps willo be the future(?). I am not disliking Windows 8, its slight improvement in performance is another to make me move forward. However, I have to agree with his criticism of the full screen applications. I normally, in several different environments, have more than one window open. Microsoft's decision to make the Apps behave this way, has forced me to adopt the legacy style Desktop and normal use of my installed applications there.
 


#5
oh I have to say honestly that performance wise, it was slightly better. And I liked how the task bar was duplicated to the second screen though I'd rather see it extended. Also like they are working on better support for multiple monitors. The horrid UI just wipes out any of the other good changes they've made. If performance wise it had been so dramatically better that I was chomping to get it horrid UI or not, then I'd have just delt with the UI and enjoyed the performance. But it was such a meager improvement and start up times were not what I expected either. My Win 7 systems are booted and usable pretty darn fast. So yes I can't agree that windows 8 is unusable, just painful and awkward to use. not really worth spending the money or the time to downgrade.


His only point here, referring to the actual "usability" of the OS, is the automatic full screen when using Metro Apps. Advertising, from MMs and others, is that Metro Apps willo be the future(?). I am not disliking Windows 8, its slight improvement in performance is another to make me move forward. However, I have to agree with his criticism of the full screen applications. I normally, in several different environments, have more than one window open. Microsoft's decision to make the Apps behave this way, has forced me to adopt the legacy style Desktop and normal use of my installed applications there.
 


kemical

Windows Forum Admin
Staff member
Premium Supporter
Microsoft MVP
#6
The way I configure and use Win 8 is this..

I primarily use the desktop.

Desktop.jpg

I use Windows explorer and Start to get around. My Start screen is basically configured like my old start menu was in windows 7:

Start 1.jpg start 2.jpg start 3.jpg

This means I can more or less access any part of the os within 2-3 clicks which I find in many cases is equal to or faster than win 7.

I do use Metro apps but feel this area of win 8 needs the most work on and hope that will eventually morph into something more useful than it actually is at present.
This might be improved by better more useful apps but still, it's early days..
 


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Trouble

Noob Whisperer
#7
Now that's what I'm talking about. Simple, easy to use, workable START.
Same here, thanks Ross for showing your setup.
 


Attachments

#8
Ok, I'm not going to go into a long diatribe here but, I will say I completely & totally disagree w/ everything this guy has written from top to bottom, especially his many statements that are 100% false.

The performance & Features of Windows8 are just fine, better than in the past & some are really quite cool & neat. Technically, it's very impressive. As far as ease of use, it's really easy. And w/out add-ons or retro-fits. I have been beta-testing both the CP & the RP. The only 'tweak', I've done (and I have asked the Win8 Build Team to make it happen by RTM) is an ALL Applications folder on the Taskbar. I live & work on & from Desktop 100% or the time. I'm including some shots to help demonstrate... The shot w/ the 'expanded' or open items shows the Application folder & the Desktop Toolbar. Sometimes, briefly, I show the Gadgets, mostly to see my meters (CPU & Drives); no need to show Desktop icons & have them, on top of nice pictures... they are all in Desktop Toolbar, anyway.

Cheers,
Drew

Capture3.JPG Screenshot17.JPG Screenshot16.JPG Screenshot18.JPG
 


davehc

Essential Member
Premium Supporter
#9
Hi Kemical.
Is that a picture of the start screen or the "All Apps" feature?
 


#10
It's his Start screen. I never use or visit mine & it could have many fewer tiles but, doesn't really matter 1 way or the other, anyway, cus I never use or visit it, lol. Still, even so, no need to have a ton of tiles on it; And I have it & keep it fixed such that I see all tiles w/out needing to move the screen to see them all. I don't use the ALL APPs screen, either. I can't be bothered or justify bouncing back & forth to various screens. Rather just stay on 1 & go to everything & do everything from that 1... Desktop. And I accomplish that by having an Applications folder on the Desktop :) Ergo, don't need heaps of tiles on Start.

Cheers,
Drew

Screenshot 21.JPG
 


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rronaldson

Senior Member
#11
I don't think it's a matter of "Is it good or bad?" but whether you like it or not, whether it suits your way of working. Personally I think I'll stick with Windows 7. I've played around with the pre-release versions of Windows 8 but found that I don't like it very much. I know from these forums that many love the new OS so no problem for me that they buy it when it's released. I know that, one day, I'll probably have to move to a newer version of Windows but I don't need to at the moment.
 


kemical

Windows Forum Admin
Staff member
Premium Supporter
Microsoft MVP
#12
Hi Kemical.
Is that a picture of the start screen or the "All Apps" feature?
Yes Dave that's my Start screen, it's a little confusing as I used 3 shots to get it all in so hence some repetition in the pictures. I don't like many icons on my desktop so configured my Start screen like an old style win 7 start menu. (or at least, like mine was :))

Don't forget that you can also drop the cursor in the bottom left hand corner as if to bring up the start page but right click instead. This will give you another link list. I'm yet unsure how one could add or subtract from this list but you can bet I'll find out.

rightclick list.jpg


Cool menu Randy.. :)

Just to add to Rachels post, Microsofts line on upgrading is: If your already using Windows 7 then there might not be a huge reason to upgrade other than to try the new os. If however your using something say pre Windows 7 then it might be time to come in from the cold.. :)
 


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davehc

Essential Member
Premium Supporter
#13
How did you manage to get the folders (Maintenance etc) into the start folder? I have them in all Apps, of course, but haven't figured out how you accomplished that??

I have another thread somewhere, where I was discussing how I had customised the right click "Power" menu. But in the end, with third party file menus around, I finally decided it was a waste of time - still a couple of clicks away, whichever choice one makes!! But I did have most of my old stuff in the Power menu, when I had finished.
 


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kemical

Windows Forum Admin
Staff member
Premium Supporter
Microsoft MVP
#14
You name the blocks of icons you create..

slot.jpg

See the above piccie? Below the arrow and in the corner you see a slot or minus sign? Click that and it will reduce the menu to a smaller size. You can then right click each block and then name it. So I never actually moved the folder I just renamed a new one.
 


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#15
Oh, my, lot of ground to cover...

Rachel:

Windows8 is better than Windows7. And that's saying a lot & hard for me to say because Windows7 (I have always felt/known) is very good.
Nothings says one "needs" to move to Windows8 "@ the moment" or even in October.
True, some ppl don't or won't like it, no matter how impressive it is.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The Power Users menu can be modified. We messed about w/ that a bit during the CP. It's not the most straight-forward thing to accomplish nor did we find that much point or need to doing so. And the "cool menu" is not something a User creates, it's standard equipment, in the OS, available to everyone.

As for not wanting to pile a bunch of icons on the Desktop, I couldn't agree more... notice I have none on my Desktop. However, any icons can appear on the Desktop Toolbar, also, as I showed whilst, not showing those same icons on the Desktop itself. And by piling a whole bunch of (unnecessary) icons/tiles on the Start screen, now, they need to be organized & 1 has to keep (unnecessarily) going to Start & scrolling across it to see them all while trying to find the one wanted, @ any given moment. Putting an Applications folder on the Taskbar eliminates all of that, plus eliminates having to leave Desktop & bounce around, back n forth to other screens.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

To get items (unnecessarily) on Start from All Apps, it is done as follows: (I'm in 7, @ the moment, so, forgive me, cus, I'm going by memory)

Highlight an item on the ALL APPs screen... no, wait, it's Rt Clk... it gets a 'border' around it & a check mark in the top-right corner & @ the bottom of the screen is an ADD to Start icon. Clk that & voila, that item will now & henceforth have a tile on Start. I'll dbl check when I go back to 8 & correct this, if, need be.

---------------------------------------------------------------------

The references I made, above, to things I've shown are in entries # 8 & 10 of this thread.

As, I said, you can see the tiles on my Start have, also, been organized, grouped & named. Difference is, although, almost none or none of them, actually, need to be there, @ all, they purposely are kept few enough that they don't go beyond or take up more real estate than can (ALL) be seen w/out moving the screen, no scrolling needed.

Cheers,
Drew
 


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davehc

Essential Member
Premium Supporter
#16
"Nothings says one "needs" to move to Windows8 "@ the moment" or even in October."

The most sincere and true statement that is currently in any Windows 8 forum!
 


davehc

Essential Member
Premium Supporter
#17
Kemmy. Doesn't do it for me. I have something similar to yours in my "All Apps" which is quite similar. I created my folders in the Windows explorer Start menu, and, of course, they automatically were created in the All Apps.
 


kemical

Windows Forum Admin
Staff member
Premium Supporter
Microsoft MVP
#18
Cool Dave, that's just it, whatever works for you. :) Seems we all have our own way of using the tools that have been given us..
 


MikeHawthorne

Essential Member
Microsoft Community Contributor
#19
Hi Guys

I think that the guy who wrote the review is essentially correct.
I do think that the interface is inappropriate for large screens.

I can almost guarantee that people aren't going to like it.

This is like saying some people drive a truck so everyone is going to have to drive a truck.
I don't want to drive a truck, I want to drive a 1964 Lotus Super 7.

On the other hand as the new owner of an iPad 3 I see the need for an interface like this.
But not on a PC that doesn't have a touch screen, that just doesn't make sense.

Some things in Windows 7 didn't make sense either, like having to scroll through a hundred apps in a tiny little window to get to the one you want.

Well they did fix that, but not the way I wanted them to.

There should be, if not two different interfaces, a built in choice about how you are going to use the computer, without having to modify the interface using third party apps. I't like they are trying to ram it down our throats.

If the stuff I've read is true they are trying to remove the legacy code that makes it easy to switch it back to a Windows 7 style interface.

As long as they leave it the way it is now, I'm happy with it.
I can modify it to work the way I want but the average computer user isn't going to know how to do that.

Here's my interface, I never go to the start screen for anything and have it set to log in to the desktop instead.

Desktop.JPG

I'm sure that whatever they do, someone will find a way to get back to a sensible interface.
It's just that they shouldn't have to.

It performs well, I haven't seen a lot of bugs, and when they come out with a powerful pad computer running it I'll buy one.

I really don't like the Apple interface, it just doesn't seem logical to me, even as I learn to use it.

I would have purchased a Windows based pad if I could have found one, there just isn't anything equivalent to the iPad yet.

An unrelated note, I just finished editing my first video shot in Full 1080i HD, all shot with the iPad and it looks fantastic.

When I show it on my 42" HD TV it looks better then the commercial stuff.
Crystal clear, what blast, I now have a new hobby, now I want a Windows pad that will do the same thing.

Mike
 


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#20
I'm using 8 on a 24" non-Touch screen & it works beautifully & w/out adding any 3rd party anything nor any extensive 'tweaking'.

IMO, I think when the Windows8 RT tablets, etc are available they will blow you away.

And, Dave, thanks for your nice comment.

Cheers,
Drew
 


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