If the Start button returns with Blue, will you use it?

Discussion in 'Windows 8 Help and Support' started by kemical, Apr 20, 2013.

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Will you use the Start Button?

Poll closed May 20, 2013.
  1. Yes! I want the Button back where it should be.

    3 vote(s)
    25.0%
  2. No! I like windows 8 the way it is.

    3 vote(s)
    25.0%
  3. Not bothered either way..

    6 vote(s)
    50.0%
  1. goodintentions

    goodintentions Active Member

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    The charms bar appears on the right side of the screen when you slide in from the corner with your thumb or move your mouse to the upper right hand corner.

    In this particular case, I can relate to why MS put it where it is and not allow people to move it around. A while back, I published an app on the android market with a calculator. One upgrade, I made the calculator float so that the user could move it anywhere. You'd think that making it an option for people to move it around would be welcomed, right? Nope. Got a couple hate mails and bad reviews. Some people demanded that I put it back the way it was.

    After that, I concluded that people are idiots. They're like children. You give them options and they won't know what to do with them.


    I beg to differ.


    I'm shocked. No more tea party rhetoric? Good job!



    And you conveniently left that out when you mentioned it. Sure, someone like me who have worked in IT for years would see right past your straw man rhetoric. But to most users, they'll take this to heart. They'll think the desktop environment is gone forever. And that big brother MS is holding a gun to their heads forcing them to work in metro.

    You specifically said that android can multitask better than 8 (in metro). Why don't you install android on your desktop and work with it? Prove that you are right. Show us that android is better at multi-tasking than metro's split screen.



    No one is forcing you to work in metro. Desktop environment is there.

    I still don't understand this logic. Please explain in detail for me what's wrong with windows 8 desktop environment.

    Forget everything else above. Just focus on this one point. What's wrong with working in the desktop environment of windows 8? I'm using it right now with photoshop, visual studio, gimp, vlc (movie), word, excel, notepad, and dropbox. Please explain to me how is it possible for me to work with all these heavy duty apps running when you keep insisting that the desktop environment is dead.
     
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  2. Trouble

    Trouble Noob Whisperer

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    Something tells me you haven't seen anything yet, when it comes to Windows 8. I suspect the best is still yet to come. Windows 8 hasn't even celebrated its' first birthday yet and I can still remember when a lot of very seasoned IT professionals would not even think about adopting a new OS version until it was a year old ( usually about the same time you could expect SP1).
    You seem to be very open minded and acceptant of other OS(s) like Android which has had 5 (five) major builds since the introduction of version 4. Two in the last two iterations of ICS and now 3 since JB not to mention the minor interim builds. Similarly iOS as well as various iteration of Linux, Ubuntu for one seem to get very frequent facelifts.... and personally I can't wait for the Apple fanboyz take on iOS 7, which rumors seem to suggest will pretty much break all jailbreaking as well as locking to your iTunes Account for it to even work properly (sounding familiar).
    Some how I think Microsoft will manage to survive.... and likely flourish, they've been around a while, suffered some serious disappointments in the past, but I think they are likely going to be around for the long haul.
     
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  3. Sonny

    Sonny Fantastic Member

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    What do you mean risk doesn't pay off? AS SEEN WITH WINDOWS 8.
     
  4. Mike

    Mike Windows Forum Admin
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    As I've always stated, Windows 8 is a mixed bag for desktop users. Some people will absolutely abhor it, and others will come to accept its shortcomings. ModernMix and Start8 get me past the problems that I see with using the desktop, primarily the only mode I find myself using. Thats the facts for me. Windows 8 was never really a risk for Microsoft. They have complete dominance in the desktop market. It was a calculated attempt to bring their software and hardware into emerging areas that they have no leverage in. The tablet market is dominated by Google Android and most smart phones are running Android or iOS.

    Yes, they needed to create minimal trouble for mouse and keyboard users, but we heard about this Surface rumor back in 2009. Initially it was advertised and marketed as a large device, such as a coffee table, or the table at a restaurant. It would be interactive and responsive to touch and allow you to place an order at a hotel. Miniaturization and quick moves in the tablet and PC markets ensured that the first Surface devices would be a very expedited release of a new version of Windows that had a touch screen UI.

    The conceptualization of these ideas is nothing new. We have seen "pads" in science fiction like Star Trek. By the time Star Trek: The Next Generation had aired, the starship Enterprise even had its own fictional touchscreen user interface called "LCARS". So it is not something that people did not foresee happening, it was just a matter of when it would become affordable and take off.

    This originates with Apple's publication of the iPod, which, really, was not the first device to read MP3 off of a laptop hard drive. There were others, but they figured out a way to mass produce these devices very affordably and in large quantities. That, of course, involved globalization and using a labor force in countries that have little to no wage standards. We see this in China and it is the rule, not the exception, for these types of devices. It is how they are sold cheaply and how they make an enormous profit for semiconductor companies like Samsung, etc.

    The goal of making these items "hip" to the public was nothing but profit motive, but it worked. With Steve Jobs, you could say the man had a vision, especially with that Wosniak fellow, but now that company is still embroiled in patent wars, even with companies that manufacture their own processors. So, you see clearly now that Windows 8 is Microsoft's attempt at catching up with these developments.

    As I demonstrated quite awhile ago in a video using Windows 7 on Teamviewer for Android, it is impossible to use a graphical user interface that uses icons and so forth on a portable touch device. It is just not really feasible. My point is that Microsoft could afford to aggravate some of their desktop users, a bit, by introducing these new enhancements that make Windows compatible with new hardware, because there is no real alternative for desktops other than Linux. It would be interesting to find the business adoption rate for Windows 8, as I would assume it is quite low. However, because it is bundled with new PC sales, it is not at low as it would be.

    Normally, businesses do not want the hassle of upgrading to new systems. This requires the cost of retraining of the staff, many of whom, are trained to use a certain application and that is absolutely it. Many businesses continue to operate with Windows XP, Windows 7, and Server 2003, if only to avoid any kind of major change. Many of them continue to use old versions of Office. When it becomes profitable for productivity to upgrade, they will, but not unless it is absolutely necessary. So the impact of Windows 8 has not been immediately felt, in a way. It will require more time, and perhaps full acceptance will never take place by a lot of people. Most people interact with computers on the most basic level, day in and day out, through the use of hardened backend systems that utilize things like Java under a proprietary system. A basic example of this is billboards, the use of a Jukebox, checking out at the supermarket, or even using ATM/bank services.

    So there is no escaping technology it just depends on what is most profitable and that is what businesses do. Large corporations are accountable to their shareholders and beholden to them more than their customers when future earnings are at stake. In my opinion, Microsoft could not sit idly by while Google and Apple absorb the tablet and phone markets with their offerings. That is what Windows 8 is really about.
     
  5. goodintentions

    goodintentions Active Member

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    Windows 8 really is a nice os for touch as well as desktop. Back in page 2, I showed a picture I took of my sister' a family's arsenal of tablets in addition to their desktop and laptop. Had MS came out with 8 a little earlier, the $5k+ they spent on Google tablets would have gone to win 8 tablets.

    Pity.
     
  6. Mike

    Mike Windows Forum Admin
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    The pictures on page 2 are genuinely a sign of the times if you ask me. A few years ago, those would have all been Windows laptops. I'm not saying Windows 8 is a bad OS, but once an ecosystem is developed and has saturated the market like Android has, now you have to compete. Many of Microsoft's competitors have faced the same problem in desktop land. I think @Mitchell_A made a good point that Windows 8 is the seed for something greater. That can be the case but is in no way a certainty. "It takes 20 years to build a reputation and five minutes to ruin it. If you think about that, you'll do things differently." I think they will learn from the mistakes or resist this at their own peril. Customer feedback should be their greatest concern. The small, disenfranchised group who don't like the latest Windows have a lot of options this time.
     
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  7. Teemocaptain

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    Maybe, but the Start button isn't the real "Start button".:noway:
     
  8. Henry Wong

    Henry Wong Well-Known Member

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    So what I don't understand is...why are people talking about how Windows 8 doesn't have a Start button...it does...on the right side in the middle of the screen...seems like a waste of air to say any other way...just saying.
     
  9. goodintentions

    goodintentions Active Member

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    Mind giving us some specifics?
     
  10. Henry Wong

    Henry Wong Well-Known Member

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    I have to agree with this ChristineBCW, your statement about how Microsoft took out customization for the program Menus and Submenus seems to be way off...especially if you are talking about the all programs menu.
     
  11. Mitchell_A

    Mitchell_A Excellent Member

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    People just need to understand the start screen is not just a complete replacement but also an upgrade from the traditional start menu, offering all the information you want to see (hence the user customization ability) at a glance rather than having to navigate through everything. While some apps and features may not be entirely optimized for desktops, this will improve as Microsoft listens to feedback or will become less relevant as people begin using touchscreen devices more and more in their daily life.
     
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  12. Trouble

    Trouble Noob Whisperer

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    Agreed Mitch.
    I think you should have underlined, italicized, added bold for emphasis and maybe increased the font on the word "want".
    That seems to be where most people miss the boat on the actual effectiveness and useability of the new Start Screen. Failing to make it their own.
     
  13. Josephur

    Josephur Windows Forum Admin
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    I hope Windows 9 has a Start and Stop button, that way people can stop it when they've had enough.
     
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  14. Mitchell_A

    Mitchell_A Excellent Member

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    Hahahaha funniest thing I've seen all day :D
     
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  15. Henry Wong

    Henry Wong Well-Known Member

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    The Start Screen is not perfect by any means though it is not horrible either...while working with Windows 8 in the DP, CP and RC I did have an issue with the functionality of the directory structure of the "All Programs" menu, I was not happy that this was so touchy in 8 and that if you changed too much about the structure it would cause crashes and miss reads to the Start Screen...I hope that this is something that has been patched in the final release...this may sound like it is a huge deal, but that was unlike any other Windows ever before, the Windows 95 in terms of the Start Screen...just like 9x, it will take some time to get it working right...I don't use Windows 8 for my own reasons...you may say that I am shallow for this but I don't care...I want my 100% transparent Windows 7 style Aero Glass back LoL
     
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  16. eskimoshoog

    eskimoshoog Active Member

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  17. Mitchell_A

    Mitchell_A Excellent Member

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    I miss it too!
     
  18. goodintentions

    goodintentions Active Member

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    Funny that you mentioned aero glass, because when it first came out the tech forums were saturated with people crying bloody murder. Some went as far as predicting Microsoft's demise. You know, the same rhetoric we've been seeing from whiners of windows 8.
     
  19. badrobot

    badrobot Senior Member

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    I don't care anymore... loving Classic Shell.. :)
     
  20. Henry Wong

    Henry Wong Well-Known Member

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    LoL, I have listened to that for years from people that only half way know what is going on. It's like really? You really want to predict something like that? *facepalm* I really believe that Futurama had it right and there will be a Windows 3K. Like it or hate it, the fact still remains that Windows 8 is the start of a new level and outlook for computing. People can either stop complaining and crying about it and learn to use it or get left in the digital dust. Before any one says anything, I didn't say any one had to like it, I just said learn to use it. Technology wont stop changing and evolving, and neither should it have to. It is our jobs as people to change and evolve along with it. If you don't grow and learn your become stagnant, stagnancy breads ignorance, ignorance and arrogance is the down fall of any society. Just saying.
     
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