Windows Blue: Sorry no Start Button...

Discussion in 'Windows 8 Help and Support' started by kemical, Dec 31, 2012.

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  1. kemical

    kemical Windows Forum Admin
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    News has leaked that the big update for Windows 8 next year entitled Windows Blue will not contain any form of Start Button or menu.

    Reference:

    Sorry, Windows Blue won't bring back the Start button
     
  2. tanzanos

    tanzanos New Member

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    Thanks for the news! This obviously means I will stay with win 7 :)
     
  3. sirloyne

    sirloyne Banned

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    "This should not come as a surprise as Microsoft would have a massive egg on it's face if it did cave to users requests to return the iconic button."

    This is my favorite part. It basically says the M$ doesn't give a crap what their paying customers what. I remember when Netflix said the same thing and their stock dropped from a high of $365 a share to just over $52. If people just started building their own PC's instead of buying, they could get a better computer, for less money and with the OS of their choice... then M$ would go the way of the Dodo in no time.
     
  4. tanzanos

    tanzanos New Member

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    "OS of their choice" is a contradiction in terms; Microsoft is basically a monopoly. One has no choice but to either buy Microsoft or Apple. (Coca cola or pepsi). I have software that only runs on windows and this pretty much forces me to use Microsoft OS's.

    To be honest if we had many OS's to choose from then compatibility would be the problem. I am afraid that we are stuck in a spiral and the only way out is to refrain from "Upgrading". Only this will force the Microsoft monopoly to listen to its client base.

    There really was no need for MS to remove the "OPTIONS" of classic menus, start button. Both were already in place and it would not have cost the company development fees.

    It is truly a questionable move of MS to force upon her users instead of giving them options. Microsoft should by law be restricted from removing options simply because since she is allowed to conduct business as a monopoly then the least this monopoly should do is to allow its clients the choice that is missing in the market. The choice in the form of OPTIONS such as mentioned above.
     
    #4 tanzanos, Jan 4, 2013
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  5. sirloyne

    sirloyne Banned

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    While it's true that many people are stuck with M$ as a result of software, myself included, I'm quite happy with XP. I have Win 7 on my laptop but that's only because HP doesn't offer XP drivers. I read somewhere that it's because M$ won't let them. By "OS of their choice" this is what I meant. People don't HAVE to have Win 8. Building your own PC is pretty much foolproof now-a-days and every motherboard I've looked at still supports XP. If you're just an email/internet type (ie Win 7 and Win 8's target audience) then you can always get one of many flavors of Linux for free with free updates (another way M$ is copying Apple) and free software.
     
  6. Medico

    Medico Senior Member

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    It's a very simple process to add a Start Orb replacement into Win 8. Just do it and be happy. Adding stress by continuing to gripe about something that is so simple is not healthy for you.

    Make Win 8 work the way you want it to or stay with Win 7. No problem either way. Just don't stress over something this simple!
     
  7. tanzanos

    tanzanos New Member

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    I agree with you up to a point. So long as win 7 continues to be supported by MS then there is not a problem.
     
  8. sirloyne

    sirloyne Banned

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    I have 2 problems with this.

    1. With the size of the OS growing exponentially with each release there should be LESS need to install 3rd party software to make your computer useable. As an OS XP is much more capable, but uses 10x less hard drive space than these "new and improved" OS's that are all about useless glitz than function.

    2. Win 7 is terrible at managing hundreds and hundreds of folders. XP was so much better it's hard to even imagine, so I can't even make 7 do what I want.
     
    #8 sirloyne, Jan 4, 2013
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  9. Joe S

    Joe S Excellent Member

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    MS support for XP ends next year so security will be a bigger issue. I assume after that many other programs and hardware will cease to be compatible with XP. So XP really isn't a realistic choice now.
    Joe
     
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  10. sirloyne

    sirloyne Banned

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    Let's be honest here, if you have a good firewall and antivirus (by good I mean not microsoft) your computer is no more secure whether you're using XP, Vista, 7 or 8. This whole "if you don't get 8 your computer will blow up and blah, blah, blah" is just fear mongering. How long before people start saying if you don't drop 7 you're doomed? Also, if the software people are using is doing exactly what they need it to do how many are going to replace it? I still use label making software I got back when I was running 98. You can still get software that works on all versions of windows (or in 8's case window) from 98 -7. If they're still making stuff for 98 why do you think they'll stop just because M$ is trying to push people into their latest crap-pile? There's a reason people still have XP... it's because it works, unlike 7 and 8. People who build their own machines will be able to get hardware for a long time. I don't see things like camera suddenly not working either, just because M$ wants them to if you don't have 8.
     
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  11. tanzanos

    tanzanos New Member

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    Actually my laptop has XP and it boots so fast that it makes 7 look like a snail. However 7 does offer many advantages over XP while XP's search is way more superior to 7. As for 8 I think I will pass. Stick with what works for you! :)
     
  12. kemical

    kemical Windows Forum Admin
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    I do, Windows 8 works wonderfully. Plus I don't feel threatened by the big bad 'monopoly' that Microsoft apparently has..

    Although this thread was originally about something else and has gotten wayyyy off track I always find it quite incredulous the lengths some users will go to bashing MS. Even my own father who'd never used a pc in his life still liked to bash Microsoft because, let's face it, they are the status quo.
    IMO MS is just a company who had the incredible luck of being the first (or the best?) at implementing a os for the common user. They have now become the fabric of our society and whether you love or hate MS the world would be a far poorer place IT wise without them. Don't get me wrong, if they have a bad product I'll say so and will find a different product to use instead. Like the defragger for example. I've never thought much of MS defraggers and have always used third party apps. Do I scream or shout about it though? Do I go on some tirade round the forums belittling microsoft for it's shoddy workmanship? No, of course not, I do after all have a life...

    There are a multitude of different pc's out there as well as many different enterprise set ups. Creating a single os to cover their entirety is a pretty tall order and it's no wonder that at times Microsoft falls short.
     
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  13. tanzanos

    tanzanos New Member

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    I think you are missing the point. Microsoft was allowed to become a MONOPOLY. It is through the Government's grace that they are allowed to basically rule the global OS market. This means that as a monopoly Microsoft is bound ethically to cater to her clients needs and not heavy hand her products onto the users.

    Microsoft should have retained the OPTIONS she removed from her OS's (both win 7 and win 8).

    If you do not understand the impact monopolies have on societies then there is little we can discuss here.

    I am not against Microsoft per se but with little other choice we have in OS's due to lack of software and or incompatibility then suffice it to say Microsoft is acting in a most unbecoming manner.

    Were Microsoft just another company (not a monopoly) then yes you would be totally right in what you say in your post.

    Either Microsoft has to abide to the anti trust laws or cater to her whole client base! You do not get to be King and be above the people at the same time since it is the people who allow you to be King.

    The start button? Everyone I ask here insist that although they use it not so frequently they still need it! It is like getting rid of the start switch from cars! I find the loss of the start button to be a very silly move on Microsoft's part.

    After win 7 stops being supported by MS then we will see the decline of Microsoft just as IBM declined!

    Sad, very sad! :(
     
  14. davehc

    davehc Microsoft MVP
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    I would suggest that perhaps you are missing the point, and Kemical is on course. As I see it, a monopoly is something thrust on persons, for which there is no alternative. In the case of Microsoft OSs, there are alternatives. One is good and challenging, the others (linux) although numerous, are all based on the same source code, with major differences in Eye candy. It is unfair to criticise MS, at this late stage, because no one has seen fit, or been able, to rise sufficiently to the challenge.
    When you comment "I have software which only runs on Windows", that may be true, but unless it is a very specific program, with specialist functions, I am sure there are similar items of software which can be substituted, which can run on the other OSs. Or perhaps you are not prepared to relearn them?
    This is the classic statement, posted so often in different terms
    " It is truly a questionable move of MS to force upon her users instead of giving them options. Microsoft should by law be restricted from removing options simply because since she is allowed to conduct business as a monopoly then the least this monopoly should do is to allow its clients the choice that is missing in the market. The choice in the form of OPTIONS such as mentioned above."
    What exactly do you feel is being forced on you? Windows 8, as a previous poster said, is a two hatted OS - the first, by the way. If you do not like metro, it is very simple to bypass and never see again. You will then be in a familiar Windows 7 environment, with all the software which you used in seven, readily available.
    When you comment on Monopolies, bear in mind the threat MS had from the European monopolies commision, over the petty matter of IE being incorporated in the OS. They, as a result, made it an option. There are several programs in the OS, which could go the same way. I believe Paint has been mentioned as the next victim. What about the Defrag program, already mentioned by kemical, there are several better alternatives. - which leads us to the Start menu. You can refer back as far as Vista, and see posters acclaiming the Classic menu. Now because readers of the various media, are climbing on a bandwagon initiated way back in the early pubic releases, it seems to be a burden to install such an inoffensive little program.
    I am certain that there are users who install an OS, as is, and never modify it in any way. I am even more certain, that the vast majority take a little time out to install software which they consider superior to those ready made in Microsoft Windows.
    " there should be LESS need to install 3rd party software " Well, since early days, I have never found the incorporated software sufficient for my needs. The trend will always be to use third party software in that OS.
    Surely, again, when you speak of monopolies, MS are opening the door for third party applications to apply their products to Windows, without interference.
    Another remark. Where do you find more difficulty using numerous folders in Windows 7 (& 8) which you say you could accomplish more easily in XP?
    Apart from the over discussed Start menu, which options do you see as having been dropped from Windows 8?
    Perhaps, referring to your final comments, you should read up a little on anti trust laws. Microsoft is not, in any way, using corrupt practices, to prevent other organisations from competing. There just do not happen to be any!
    I realise it is a weak argument but, it has to be said, If you are happy with Windows 7/XP, there is no reason why you should be moving to Windows 8. It's performance is not that much better, to make the move an obligation.
     
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  15. Medico

    Medico Senior Member

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    The bottom line here is that MS does not "Force" anything on anyone! If you do not like Win 8, then use Win 7 or Win XP or any number of versions of Linux, or Apple. You are NOT being forced to use Windows 8!

    If you have proprietary S/W that requires Windows, then you still have options, XP, Vista, Win 7 or Win 8. Again MS is NOT forcing you to install Win 8!

    I suppose you believe it is MS's fault that other developers only develop their apps for Windows. If Apple allowed nearly as much user customization as does Windows, perhaps they could garner more than the miniscule market share they get and developers would start spewing out apps for Apple. Don't blame MS because 3rd party developers only develop for Windows. The 3rd party developers work to make money and they know they will make far more profit by developing for Windows and bypassing iOS or Linux. That's the way the world works.

    If your only joy is to bash MS perhaps the Apple or Linux forums would be a more appropriate forum for that bashing.

    We are here to help supply answers to questions. It does indeed get tiresome reading some posts where members have nothing better to do than bash MS.
     
  16. sirloyne

    sirloyne Banned

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    First... this thread was about Win 8 remaining Start-Buttonless after the next update. Tanzanos stated he didn't like that and I said you don't have to have 8 if you build your own PC, so in that respect it's still (or as you felt it has to be said... stilllll) on track.
     
    #16 sirloyne, Jan 5, 2013
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  17. sirloyne

    sirloyne Banned

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    You can't buy a new computer with XP, and it gets harder to gt one with 7 every day. If you buy a new computer it WILL have 8. The only way you're not forced into 8 is build your own, buy a Mac or switch to Linux.

    As far at the 3rd party statement, it was made because features and options the USED to be in previous versions of this OS are no longer there in these "new and improved" versions, requiring 3rd party software to reinstate said missing features and options. Two things here... 1. with all the features and capabilities removed, why are they now 10x bigger 2. They, M$, will be more than happy to sell you back, for an additional cost of course, the options and features that were in previous version, but not the latest and greatest.

    For folders, see this thread... http://windows7forums.com/windows-7-support/88001-drag-drop.html
     
    #17 sirloyne, Jan 5, 2013
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  18. bassfisher6522

    bassfisher6522 Essential Member

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    XP sucks, 8 sucks and windows 7 rules......take that with a grain of salt....
     
  19. Medico

    Medico Senior Member

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    Not true. Most new PCs that come pre-installed with Win 8 do have the option to downgrade to Win 7.
     
  20. davehc

    davehc Microsoft MVP
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    Hopefully, PC owners, who are contemplating buying a new computer, have, in most cases, retained their original Windows 7/XP DVDs, so can reinstall, if that it their wish?
    But, it is obvious that their are two quite opposing groups on this thread. Those who are comfortably using Windows 8, and those who are, even to the smallest degree, unwilling to compromise on their views regarding Windows 8.
    I do ponder, however, as what stated earlier, why those with such an extreme attitude register on a forum dedicated to helping users with Windows 8. If they merely wish to be heard, then perhaps their views would be more usefully expressed on one of the Microsoft forums?
    Speaking from my own standpoint, when I start to read comments such as "you come off as a condescending d*ckhead, you know that right? ", I drop out of a thread, it is not what help forums are about. Time to close the thread, perhaps?







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